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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: graceseeker on January 12, 2018, 04:00:10 PM

Title: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on January 12, 2018, 04:00:10 PM
The Jewish religion is where the Catholic religion originated, so I wish people would stop bashing the Jews.. I just totally don't get it. So some Jews love money too much. So do some "Christians" so called.

The Jews have just as much a chance of accepting Jesus as anyone else. If they don't they will go to Hell. So if anything we should pity them a little more and evangelize them..

better to evangelize than to hate .. right? 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Confiteor Deo on January 12, 2018, 04:11:12 PM
Most people don't bash Jews because of who they are but because of what they do. Do read "The Mystical Body of Christ and Reorganization of Society" by the Reverend Denis Fahey, which you can download here.

https://archive.org/details/DenisFaheyTheMysticalBodyOfChristAndTheReorganizationOfSociety_201603

Anything by E Michael Jones, who has plenty of interviews online, is also very informative

Of course we should pity them and not hate them.
 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 12, 2018, 04:17:50 PM
Jews are disproportionately represented as proponents of the most evil ideas and involved in the most evil institutions of our time: communism, feminism, secular humanism, film and televisions industry, etc.  When  a group is associated with evil like this, one can expect a negative reaction.

I agree that praying for the conversion of Jews is important and I hope that everyone will do so.  I think, however, that dismissing any negative comments about Jews as "bashing" is an over-simplified approach.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Nadir on January 12, 2018, 05:03:59 PM
I see you posted in response to the comment on the thread URGENT MESSAGE

Quote from: Mega-fin on January 07, 2018, 08:47:43 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/urgent-message!/msg588089/#msg588089)
Quote
Bigly?

Ok, well no I haven’t looked into #Qanon but I’ll get behind Trump when he stops getting behind Israel.
To which you responded

another anti-Semite... please
never did get the Jew bashing stuff
not all Jews are the same just as not all Catholics are the same...

You are confused about the words, in that you equate Jew with Semite.
Of course all Jews are individuals, but the main issue here with the Jew in general is that whole group reject Jesus Christ as their saviour. THey are still waiting for a saviour, at least the religious ones.

Besides, most Jews are European and have no Semitic blood running in their veins.

WHereas Semites can be Catholic, "christian", Orthodox, Muslim, nonbelievers, even Jew.

Jew is a religion, whereas Semitic is a race.

It takes a bit of unlearning to do. The whole of society has been confused by the braiwashing received via the education system, the entertainment industry and by the television. BEst to stay away from all three to detox.

Do the investigations.



Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 12, 2018, 05:28:03 PM
That post from the other thread appears to equate withholding support from the state of Israel with anti-semitism.  That is an unreasonable position.  There are many good reasons that one might dislike or oppose the government of a country.  Personally, I think that Israel has several objectionable practices and policies.  It is unfair and illogical to automatically dismiss a political view as an irrational hatred of Jews.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Mega-fin on January 12, 2018, 05:45:41 PM
I see you posted in response to the comment on the thread URGENT MESSAGE

Quote from: Mega-fin on January 07, 2018, 08:47:43 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/urgent-message!/msg588089/#msg588089)To which you responded

another anti-Semite... please
never did get the Jew bashing stuff
not all Jews are the same just as not all Catholics are the same...

You are confused about the words, in that you equate Jew with Semite.
Of course all Jews are individuals, but the main issue here with the Jew in general is that whole group reject Jesus Christ as their saviour. THey are still waiting for a saviour, at least the religious ones.

Besides, most Jews are European and have no Semitic blood running in their veins.

WHereas Semites can be Catholic, "christian", Orthodox, Muslim, nonbelievers, even Jew.

Jew is a religion, whereas Semitic is a race.

It takes a bit of unlearning to do. The whole of society has been confused by the braiwashing received via the education system, the entertainment industry and by the television. BEst to stay away from all three to detox.

Do the investigations.
Missed this, thanks for the back up!  :cheers:
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Centroamerica on January 12, 2018, 07:53:14 PM

I just started reading the book "Synagogue Rising" by Hugh Akins. It would be a good read for anyone who questions whether Catholics can defend Judaism.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Motorede on January 12, 2018, 09:13:00 PM
The Jewish religion is where the Catholic religion originated, so I wish people would stop bashing the Jews.. I just totally don't get it. So some Jews love money too much. So do some "Christians" so called.

The Jews have just as much a chance of accepting Jesus as anyone else. If they don't they will go to Hell. So if anything we should pity them a little more and evangelize them..

better to evangelize than to hate .. right?
You don't remember the phrase "perfidious Jews" used during the Good Friday Liturgical Action? Until modern times Catholics never complained about this description, which was written for our instruction when Catholic-minded authorities were in charge.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 13, 2018, 02:03:15 AM
A quick synopsis of the disposition of the Jew, hence we are to have an aversion for, and be guarded against, them.

The Lord tells us not to pray for Jews in Jeremias 11:9-15

 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=jeremias+11%3A9-15&b=drb&t=0)Jews are racially cursed due to the events in Matthew 27:25 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=matthew+27%3A25&b=drb). Their offspring inherit the curse through the generations. It must be noted that converts to the Judaism have the same curse befall them, which they will pass down to their children. Only Baptism into Jesus Christ with water and spirit can lift the curse of the Jew.

Jesus Christ tells us that Jews are the Synagogue of Satan in Apocalypse of St. John 2:9 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=revelation+2%3A9&b=drb&t=0) and 3:9  (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=revelation+3%3A9&b=drb&t=0)


Jews are a false religion and a race. Firstly, Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Faith of Abraham, whereas, today's Judaism ruptured itself from Abraham by rejecting Christ. In rejecting Christ, they rejected the God of their fathers, hence they became the Synagogue of Satan (Rev 2:9 & 3:9). Secondly, Jesus Christ is of true Davidian blood, but the Jews lost that biological lineage after the Diaspora when they mixed with Khazars and, subsequently, some of the host population of European nations. Moreover, the Jews became a cursed race due to the events in Matthew 27:25, therefore, they could never have the same genealogy as Jesus Christ. It is due to Jews' racial curse that they are are driven to sow & promote subversion, heresy, discord, perversions (porn, faggotry, trannies), usury, war, murder (abortion, etc), atheism, feminism, scientism, naturalism, and the revolutionary spirit. Many of the Jews involved in the aforementioned war on Christ's Social Kingship are actually atheists, but despite their lack of belief in any "deity", they're still wired to pave the way for Antichrist by their deeds, and they manifest an innate drive to band together and still identify as Jews. The Jews are guided by legions of demons, which is why they disproportionately hold positions of strategic importance in private & pubic sectors, hence effecting the order of sin against God. Jews only make up 2% of the U.S. population, and only around 1/5 of one percent of the global population, but their adversarial impact on humanity is huge and not a random coincidence.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 13, 2018, 06:48:07 AM
The Lord tells us not to pray for Jews in Jeremias 11:9-15
 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=jeremias+11%3A9-15&b=drb&t=0)
You do not seem to understand the passage as the Church does, since praying for the conversion of Jews is part of Catholic liturgy:

Oremus et pro perfidis Judæis: ut Deus et Dominus noster auferat velamen de cordibus eorum; ut et ipsi agnoscant Jesum Christum, Dominum nostrum. (Non respondetur 'Amen', nec dicitur 'Oremus', aut 'Flectamus genua', aut 'Levate', sed statim dicitur:) Omnipotens sempiterne Deus, qui etiam judaicam perfidiam a tua misericordia non repellis: exaudi preces nostras, quas pro illius populi obcæcatione deferimus; ut, agnita veritatis tuæ luce, quæ Christus est, a suis tenebris eruantur. Per eundem Dominum nostrum Jesum Christum Filium tuum, qui tecum vivit et regnat in unitate Spiritus Sancti, Deus: per omnia sæcula sæculorum. Amen

Let us pray also for the faithless Jews: that Almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts; so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. Almighty and eternal God, who dost not exclude from thy mercy even Jewish faithlessness: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 13, 2018, 07:31:50 PM
You do not seem to understand the passage as the Church does, since praying for the conversion of Jews is part of Catholic liturgy:

Oremus et pro perfidis Judæis: ut Deus et Dominus noster auferat velamen de cordibus eorum; ut et ipsi agnoscant Jesum Christum, Dominum nostrum. (Non respondetur 'Amen', nec dicitur 'Oremus', aut 'Flectamus genua', aut 'Levate', sed statim dicitur:) Omnipotens sempiterne Deus, qui etiam judaicam perfidiam a tua misericordia non repellis: exaudi preces nostras, quas pro illius populi obcæcatione deferimus; ut, agnita veritatis tuæ luce, quæ Christus est, a suis tenebris eruantur. Per eundem Dominum nostrum Jesum Christum Filium tuum, qui tecum vivit et regnat in unitate Spiritus Sancti, Deus: per omnia sæcula sæculorum. Amen

Let us pray also for the faithless Jews: that Almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts; so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. Almighty and eternal God, who dost not exclude from thy mercy even Jewish faithlessness: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen.

Yes, I'm aware of the Mass' Good Friday prayer for Jews. That doesn't mean it's obligatory for Catholics to pray for Jews. It's not ex cathedra. The Book of Jeremias is biblical canon. The Lord is clear that He will not hear the prayers for Jews. If the Church still decides to pray for them, that's fine and dandy, but that doesn't mean God will hear the prayers for the Jews, collectively.

I still pray for the conversion of individual Jews, but not the Jewish people as a whole.

St. John Chrysostom tells us:

"[...] God hates the Jews, and on Judgment Day He will say to those who sympathize with them., 'Depart from Me, for you have had intercourse with My murderers!' Flee, then, from their assemblies, fly from their houses, and, far from venerating the synagogue, hold it in hatred and aversion."
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 13, 2018, 08:15:36 PM
Yes, I'm aware of the Mass' Good Friday prayer for Jews. That doesn't mean it's obligatory for Catholics to pray for Jews. It's not ex cathedra. The Book of Jeremias is biblical canon. The Lord is clear that He will not hear the prayers for Jews. If the Church still decides to pray for them, that's fine and dandy, but that doesn't mean God will hear the prayers for the Jews, collectively.
I still pray for the conversion of individual Jews, but not the Jewish people as a whole. 

St. John Chrysostom tells us:

"[...] God hates the Jews, and on Judgment Day He will say to those who sympathize with them., 'Depart from Me, for you have had intercourse with My murderers!' Flee, then, from their assemblies, fly from their houses, and, far from venerating the synagogue, hold it in hatred and aversion."
The liturgy of the Church is a better guide to what we ought to believe than your personal interpretation of Scripture.  There is a saying that expresses this Catholic principle: lex orandi, lex credendi   "the law of praying is the law of believing." 

Other Saints took a different approach from St. John Chrysostom.  For example, St. Paul wrote (Romans 9:1-5)  

[1] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=52&ch=9&l=1-#x) I speak the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost: [2] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=52&ch=9&l=2-#x) That I have great sadness, and continual sorrow in my heart. [3] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=52&ch=9&l=3-#x) For I wished myself to be an anathema from Christ, for my brethren, who are my kinsmen according to the flesh, [4] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=52&ch=9&l=4-#x) Who are Israelites, to whom belongeth the adoption as of children, and the glory, and the testament, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises: [5] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=52&ch=9&l=5-#x) Whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all things, God blessed for ever. Amen.

The Challoner commentary explains:
[3] "Anathema": A curse. The apostle's concern and love for his countrymen the Jews was so great, that he was willing to suffer even an anathema, or curse, for their sake; or any evil that could come upon him, without his offending God.

And St. Bernard of Clairvaux wrote: 
The Jews are not to be persecuted, killed or even put to flight. Ask anyone who knows the Sacred Scriptures what he finds foretold of the Jews in the psalm. "Not for their destruction do I pray," it says. The Jews are for us the living words of Scripture, for they remind us always of what our Lord suffered. They are dispersed all over the world so that by expiating their crime they may be everywhere the living witnesses of our redemption. Hence the same psalm adds, "only let thy power disperse them." And so it is: dispersed they are. Under Christian princes they endure a hard captivity, but "they only wait for the time of their deliverance." Finally we are told by the Apostle that when the time is ripe all Israel shall be saved. But those who die before will remain in death.

 St. Bernard also wrote:  
Is it not a far better triumph for the Church to convince and convert the Jews than to put them all to the sword? Has that prayer which the Church offers for the Jews, from the rising up of the sun to the going down thereof; that the veil may be taken from their hearts so that they may be led from the darkness of error into the light of truth, been instituted in vain? If she did not hope that they would believe and be converted, it would seem useless and vain for her to pray for them. But with the eye of mercy she considers how the Lord regards with favor him who renders good for evil and love for hatred.

It looks like praying for the conversion of Jews was a daily practice in his time.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 13, 2018, 08:58:21 PM

The following saints and popes who spoke against the Jews far outnumber your defenders of Jews:


(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26231397_116253515848904_8337023496080873507_n.jpg?oh=7c21035bc9b47c5e1e4ec3e320152261&oe=5AF19CC8)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26239866_116256012515321_1560558021328148429_n.jpg?oh=5f99113235bc942321d807a5f886cfc6&oe=5AEE4DFF)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26239160_116256509181938_8666484666294849073_n.jpg?oh=2174d9d820f1f1631bdf3883f67955b0&oe=5ADFE7BD)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26733367_116257669181822_4214536558809667319_n.jpg?oh=baa7d3b9916c5263393dd10c6c9dc593&oe=5AE2CC72)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26230724_116258349181754_4375275675308486182_n.jpg?oh=d1461869635388d31b56de905d5e5cd2&oe=5AF26395)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26733907_116259139181675_3739487403460986938_n.jpg?oh=82c8db364335e1795e6a1829666d11ee&oe=5AEE3A20)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26733570_116260679181521_6676782440065692907_n.jpg?oh=3ce40f6551cc914838340ce26818f6c5&oe=5AFD61D6)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26231722_116261915848064_2220844306679886076_n.jpg?oh=d1250b9b53e309faced13de3b8bde0d8&oe=5AB6337A)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26239545_116261539181435_8441100727150188784_n.jpg?oh=510f1558925df68040544f96ce74e8e7&oe=5AFE427B)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26238842_116266352514287_1067585671888074968_n.jpg?oh=8cef5bdf13dcde05b8878941c13cac1e&oe=5AF9A0A2)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26731338_116270025847253_8765011162466997573_n.jpg?oh=62fbe30d610ca7e0baf8e2159bbfb45a&oe=5AFB8AD2)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26230447_116273725846883_1139029164427462640_n.jpg?oh=ddf71269a2bc286d8a1c5ed4bae3b26b&oe=5AF67B74)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26804351_116254935848762_2254320617760233665_n.jpg?oh=09de6460c57b9b9b45ee86b0dc42b1ed&oe=5AF92151)
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 13, 2018, 09:43:31 PM

The following saints and popes who spoke against the Jews far outnumber your defenders of Jews:
I suspect if we looked at all the quotes in context, we would find a general agreement.  There are not two sides among the Saints - one for and the other against Jews.  There are just different aspects of a complex issue.  Throwing a bunch of isolated quotes around is not a good way to learn the mind of the Church, especially concerning complex matters.

Even some of the quotes you presented mentioned the conversion of Jews and none of the quotes said anything about it being wrong to pray for the conversion of Jews.  No matter how many bad things we may find to say about Jews, we ought to desire and pray for their conversion.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 14, 2018, 11:26:22 PM
I suspect if we looked at all the quotes in context, we would find a general agreement.  There are not two sides among the Saints - one for and the other against Jews.  There are just different aspects of a complex issue.  Throwing a bunch of isolated quotes around is not a good way to learn the mind of the Church, especially concerning complex matters.

Even some of the quotes you presented mentioned the conversion of Jews and none of the quotes said anything about it being wrong to pray for the conversion of Jews.  No matter how many bad things we may find to say about Jews, we ought to desire and pray for their conversion.

Here are some more teachings against the Jews by the saints:

"It would be licit, according to custom, to hold the Jews in perpetual servitude because of their crime."
 ~ St. Thomas Aquinas


"Crucifiers of Christ ought to be held in continual subjection."
~ Pope Innocent III


"The Jews knew that Christ was the son of David. And even now they hope for His Coming. It is hidden from them that He has come, but it is hidden because they willed it so. For, not acknowledging Him on the cross, the knowledge of Him reigning in glory should not be theirs ... Why are the Jews hoping for what has already come, and not fearful for what is to come? For Our Lord Jesus Christ ... referred Himself as "the Stone" (Matthew xxi.44), that whoever stumbles upon it shall be bruised; but upon whom it shall fall, it will grind to powder ... Lying on the ground, it shakes whoever falls over it; coming from on high, it crushes the proud. The Jews have already been shaken by their previous stumble. What awaits them is to be crushed by His Coming."
 ~ St. Augustine


The bottom line is your position that Catholics should pray for Jews is just as subjective as my position that we shouldn't pray for them as a collective group.

Since the Church has no definitive application towards Jews in regards to whether or not we should pray for them, there can be no real fault in a Catholic relying on God's words in the Book of Jeremias (11:9-15). His words are clear that we shouldn't pray for Jews, and prayers for them won't be heard. The written text is objective reality and appears literal in meaning. The Church might interpret those verses differently, but there is no ex cathedra ruling making it obligatory for Catholics to pray for Jews. It is not part of Catholic dogma.

Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 14, 2018, 11:26:47 PM
Here are some more teachings against the Jews by the saints:

"It would be licit, according to custom, to hold the Jews in perpetual servitude because of their crime."
 ~ St. Thomas Aquinas


"Crucifiers of Christ ought to be held in continual subjection."
~ Pope Innocent III


"The Jews knew that Christ was the son of David. And even now they hope for His Coming. It is hidden from them that He has come, but it is hidden because they willed it so. For, not acknowledging Him on the cross, the knowledge of Him reigning in glory should not be theirs ... Why are the Jews hoping for what has already come, and not fearful for what is to come? For Our Lord Jesus Christ ... referred Himself as "the Stone" (Matthew xxi.44), that whoever stumbles upon it shall be bruised; but upon whom it shall fall, it will grind to powder ... Lying on the ground, it shakes whoever falls over it; coming from on high, it crushes the proud. The Jews have already been shaken by their previous stumble. What awaits them is to be crushed by His Coming."
 ~ St. Augustine


The bottom line is your position that Catholics should pray for Jews is just as subjective as my position that we shouldn't pray for them as a collective group.

Since the Church has no definitive application towards Jews in regards to whether or not we should pray for them, there can be no real fault in a Catholic relying on God's words in the Book of Jeremias (11:9-15). His words are clear that we shouldn't pray for Jews, and prayers for them won't be heard. The written text is objective reality and appears literal in meaning. The Church might interpret those verses differently, but there is no ex cathedra ruling making it obligatory for Catholics to pray for Jews. It is not part of Catholic dogma.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: josefamenendez on January 15, 2018, 05:44:18 AM
The post-70 AD Judaic-Talmudic religion is NOT the religion of the Old Testament which Jesus Christ fulfilled, and was absolutely ended as His Church was established. No more Temple sacrifice needed. God allowed the complete destruction of the Temple for a reason!
 No- the Talmudic man-made religion that we call "Jewish"exists only to oppose Christ and gain world domination. There is no other point to it's existence. The enemy of the Church- NOT our "elder brethren". 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 15, 2018, 07:02:24 AM
The bottom line is your position that Catholics should pray for Jews is just as subjective as my position that we shouldn't pray for them as a collective group.

Since the Church has no definitive application towards Jews in regards to whether or not we should pray for them, there can be no real fault in a Catholic relying on God's words in the Book of Jeremias (11:9-15). His words are clear that we shouldn't pray for Jews, and prayers for them won't be heard. The written text is objective reality and appears literal in meaning. The Church might interpret those verses differently, but there is no ex cathedra ruling making it obligatory for Catholics to pray for Jews. It is not part of Catholic dogma.
My position is not subjective.  It is an objective fact that the liturgy of the Church has, for centuries, contained prayers for the conversion of Jews.  It logically follows from this that praying for Jews is a good thing. It also follows that one cannot interpret Scripture as saying that we should not pray for Jews because that would mean that the Church was wrong in doing so.  It is a real fault to interpret Scripture such that one concludes that there is a mistake in the liturgy of the Church.

It is true that we are not obliged to pray for the conversion of Jews (other than when attending public liturgies that do so).  Neither are we obliged to pray the Rosary.  Nevertheless, praying the Rosary is a good thing that therefore ought to be encouraged.  Similarly, praying for the conversion of Jews is a good thing that ought to be encouraged.

Do you know who objects to prayers for the conversion of Jews?  Jews.  A quick Google search shows countless Jewish individuals and organizations complaining about it being anti-semitic and/or demanding the Church change her liturgy to remove such prayers.  So, not only are such prayers an ancient practice of the Church, they are hated by the enemies of the Church.  It could not be much clearer that it is a good thing.  

No matter how many quotes from Saints you produce, there will not be one that says that Jews should not convert or that we should not pray for their conversion.  This has neither been stated nor implied by any of your quotes so far and you will not find one that does so.  Also, as I already said, going to quote sites is not a good way to learn Church teaching.  If you are interested in learning what the Church teaches about Jews, I suggest starting with research into Sicut Judaeis. This is what the Wikipedia entry says:
Quote
Sicut Judaeis (Latin: "As the Jews") was a papal bull (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_bull) setting out the official position of the papacy regarding the treatment of Jews (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews).

The first bull was issued in about 1120 by Calixtus II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calixtus_II) and was intended to protect Jews. It was prompted by the First Crusade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade), during which over five thousand Jews were slaughtered in Europe. The words sicut Judaeis ("and thus to the Jews") were first used by Pope Gregory I (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_I) (590-604) in a letter addressed to the Bishop of Naples (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Naples). Even then the Pope emphasized that Jews were entitled to "enjoy their lawful liberty."[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicut_Judaeis#cite_note-thurstonCE-1)
The bull was reaffirmed by many popes including Alexander III (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Alexander_III), Celestine III (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestine_III) (1191-1198), Innocent III (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Innocent_III) (1199), Honorius III (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorius_III) (1216), Gregory IX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_IX) (1235), Innocent IV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocent_IV) (1246), Alexander IV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Alexander_IV) (1255), Urban IV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_IV)(1262), Gregory X (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_X) (1272 & 1274), Nicholas III (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Nicholas_III), Martin IV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_IV) (1281), Honorius IV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorius_IV) (1285-1287), Nicholas IV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Nicholas_IV) (1288-92), Clement VI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_VI) (1348  ), Urban V (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_V) (1365), Boniface IX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boniface_IX) (1389), Martin V (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_V) (1422), and Nicholas V (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_V)(1447).[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicut_Judaeis#cite_note-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicut_Judaeis#cite_note-3)
The bull forbade Christians, on pain of excommunication (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication), from forcing Jews to convert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion), from harming them, from taking their property, from disturbing the celebration of their festivals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_holiday), and from interfering with their cemeteries.

The bull of 1120 was not the first papal expression against the mistreatment of Jews. In 1065, for example, Pope Alexander II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Alexander_II) wrote to Béranger, Viscount of Narbonne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscount_of_Narbonne), and to Guifred, bishop of the city, praising them for having prevented the massacre of the Jews in their district, and reminding them that God does not approve of the shedding of blood. In 1065 also, Alexander admonished Landulf VI of Benevento (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landulf_VI_of_Benevento) "that the conversion of Jews is not to be obtained by force."[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicut_Judaeis#cite_note-4)
There were various other papal documents throughout history that should also be examined.  I found a website that lists these with a short summary, but, unfortunately, since it is a Jewish source, it is likely to be biased. 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 15, 2018, 09:17:04 AM
My position is not subjective.  It is an objective fact that the liturgy of the Church has, for centuries, contained prayers for the conversion of Jews.  It logically follows from this that praying for Jews is a good thing. It also follows that one cannot interpret Scripture as saying that we should not pray for Jews because that would mean that the Church was wrong in doing so.  It is a real fault to interpret Scripture such that one concludes that there is a mistake in the liturgy of the Church.

It is true that we are not obliged to pray for the conversion of Jews (other than when attending public liturgies that do so).  Neither are we obliged to pray the Rosary.  Nevertheless, praying the Rosary is a good thing that therefore ought to be encouraged.  Similarly, praying for the conversion of Jews is a good thing that ought to be encouraged.

Do you know who objects to prayers for the conversion of Jews?  Jews.  A quick Google search shows countless Jewish individuals and organizations complaining about it being anti-semitic and/or demanding the Church change her liturgy to remove such prayers.  So, not only are such prayers an ancient practice of the Church, they are hated by the enemies of the Church.  It could not be much clearer that it is a good thing.  

No matter how many quotes from Saints you produce, there will not be one that says that Jews should not convert or that we should not pray for their conversion.  This has neither been stated nor implied by any of your quotes so far and you will not find one that does so.  Also, as I already said, going to quote sites is not a good way to learn Church teaching.  If you are interested in learning what the Church teaches about Jews, I suggest starting with research into Sicut Judaeis. This is what the Wikipedia entry says:There were various other papal documents throughout history that should also be examined.  I found a website that lists these with a short summary, but, unfortunately, since it is a Jewish source, it is likely to be biased.

I never said Catholics shouldn't pray for the conversion of Jews. In fact, in my second comment on this thread, I specifically stated I pray for the conversion of individual Jews.

Prayers for the Jews should not extend beyond their conversion to Jesus Christ through the Catholic Church. God will not hear prayers for Jews beyond anything calling for them to receive the grace for conversion.

You're conflating specific prayers for the conversion of Jews with general prayers for Jews and their well being. That is wrong.

The Church's history has only called for prayers for their conversion, but saints and popes, as noted in the aforementioned quotes, has called for their subjection & servitude, and that's not even close to the punishment they will receive from God when He rains down His wrath upon them for their faithlessness, sins and worship of false "gods"; and He tells us not to pray for them when He does punish them, because He will not hear the prayers. The Book of Jeremias is clear. God does not mince words there.

I never said saints taught that Jews shouldn't convert. That's a strawman by you.

If a Catholic wants to learn what the Church teaches about Jews, he should start with St. John Chrysostom's Eight Homilies Against The Jews here (http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/index.htm#Chrysostom_Against_the_Jews), not Sicut Judaeis as you proposed.

Much of your comments actually show your bias, which probably stems from the fact that you're a Jew by blood and a convert to the Church, but you seem to cling to your racial identity and an unjustifiable & imprudent concern for Christ-haters for whatever reason.


Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 15, 2018, 10:16:34 AM
I never said Catholics shouldn't pray for the conversion of Jews. In fact, in my second comment on this thread, I specifically stated I pray for the conversion of individual Jews.

Prayers for the Jews should not extend beyond their conversion to Jesus Christ through the Catholic Church. God will not hear prayers for Jews beyond anything calling for them to receive the grace for conversion.

You're conflating specific prayers for the conversion of Jews with general prayers for Jews and their well being. That is wrong.
Apparently we have misunderstood each other.  I was only talking about praying for the conversion of Jews.  Throughout this thread, I either said this explicitly or thought it implied by the context.  I thought you were objecting to praying for their conversion.  When you stated "I still pray for the conversion of individual Jews, but not the Jewish people as a whole,"  I thought that you were saying that you did not want to pray for the conversion of the Jewish people as a whole.

I have no problem with your statement above: "Prayers for the Jews should not extend beyond their conversion to Jesus Christ through the Catholic Church. God will not hear prayers for Jews beyond anything calling for them to receive the grace for conversion."


The Church's history has only called for prayers for their conversion, but saints and popes, as noted in the aforementioned quotes, has called for their subjection & servitude, and that's not even close to the punishment they will receive from God when He rains down His wrath upon them for their faithlessness, sins and worship of false "gods"; and He tells us not to pray for them when He does punish them, because He will not hear the prayers. The Book of Jeremias is clear. God does not mince words there.

I never said saints taught that Jews shouldn't convert. That's a strawman by you.

If a Catholic wants to learn what the Church teaches about Jews, he should start with St. John Chrysostom's Eight Homilies Against The Jews here (http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/index.htm#Chrysostom_Against_the_Jews), not Sicut Judaeis as you proposed.

Much of your comments actually show your bias, which probably stems from the fact that you're a Jew by blood and a convert to the Church, but you seem to cling to your racial identity and an unjustifiable & imprudent concern for Christ-haters for whatever reason.

I never said you said that Saints taught that Jews shouldn't convert. So it could not have been a strawman. I was trying to make the point that none of your Saint quotes addressed my claim that it is good to pray for the conversion of Jews.

In general, it is better to study a topic by starting with papal teaching and reading Saints' writings in that light.  However, since St. John Chrysostom's homilies are more easily accessible, it is more practical to read them first.  It is far better to read an entire homily than isolated quotes.  For example, when we read the whole thing, we see that the context is a community that was having a problem with Judaizers. 

Quote
Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now. My homilies against the Anomians can be put off to another time, and the postponement would cause no harm. But now that the Jewish festivals are close by and at the very door, if I should fail to cure those who are sick with the Judaizing disease. I am afraid that, because of their ill-suited association and deep ignorance, some Christians may partake in the Jews' transgressions; once they have done so, I fear my homilies on these transgressions will be in vain. For if they hear no word from me today, they will then join the Jews in their fasts; once they have committed this sin it will be useless for me to apply the remedy.
As for your speculation about my motives, given that you did not even understand my comments, it is unlikely that what you deduced from them is correct.  I was writing because I thought you were claiming that we should not pray for the conversion of Jews.  I feel very strongly on the topic of prayers for the conversion of Jews because I myself am a convert and am deeply grateful for those who prayed for me.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 15, 2018, 11:15:21 AM
 When you stated "I still pray for the conversion of individual Jews, but not the Jewish people as a whole,"  I thought that you were saying that you did not want to pray for the conversion of the Jewish people as a whole.

I have no problem praying for the conversion of the Jewish people as a whole, and I obviously do during the Liturgy of Good Friday, but any other time, I won't do it, for I know it's not practical because most Jews will remain obstinate in their rejection of Christ to the very end. The Church teaches this reality. In fact, most Jews (two-thirds) will be exterminated as punishment by God for their rejection of Him (Jesus Christ) as revealed in the Prophesy of Zacharias 13:8-9 (http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id723.html).

I still pray for the conversion of individual Jews from time to time.



Quote
I never said you said that Saints taught that Jews shouldn't convert. So it could not have been a strawman.

You stated, "No matter how many quotes from Saints you produce, there will not be one that says that Jews should not convert..."

That's a strong implication that I'm asserting that saints didn't want Jews to convert to the Catholic Church. Therefore, it is, indeed, a strawman argument because I never remotely suggested it.



Quote
given that you did not even understand my comments, it is unlikely that what you deduced from them is correct.

That would be inductive reasoning, not deduction, because you were trying to start with supposed details or facts in order to beget a conclusion (which can be false) from the reader based off of the (supposed) details/facts. However, It was you who did not understand my comments. From the near beginning, I specifically stated I still pray for the conversion of individual Jews. You missed this declarative sentence, and proceeded to build a case against me off of a false premise.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 15, 2018, 11:35:11 AM
I have no problem praying for the conversion of the Jewish people as a whole, and I obviously do during the Liturgy of Good Friday, but any other time, I won't do it, for I know it's not practical because most Jews will remain obstinate in their rejection of Christ to the very end. The Church teaches this reality. In fact, most Jews (two-thirds) will be exterminated as punishment by God for their rejection of Him (Jesus Christ) as revealed in the Prophesy of Zacharias 13:8-9 (http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id723.html).

I still pray for the conversion of individual Jews from time to time.
Thank you.

[...]
However, It was you who did not understand my comments. From the near beginning, I specifically stated I still pray for the conversion of individual Jews. You missed this declarative sentence, and proceeded to build a case against me off of a false premise.

Yes, I did misunderstand you and this skewed just about everything I wrote.  I apologize.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 15, 2018, 11:40:49 AM
[...] to beget a conclusion (which can be false) from the reader based off of the (supposed) details/facts.

I meant, "...to the reader..."

I sometimes struggle using the correct preposition when speaking or writing.

Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 15, 2018, 11:58:42 AM
 I apologize.
No problem. I should have caught your misunderstanding earlier so I would have made a sooner clarification.

Also, I want to say I don't doubt your conversion. I think you've generally been impartial on this forum regarding the perfidy of The International Jew. I hope my tone on this particular thread didn't seem harsh and suspicious of you when I mentioned your background. If it did, I apologize.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Cantarella on January 15, 2018, 12:16:24 PM
OP needs to read asap the works of Fr. Denis Fahey; starting with The Kingship of Christ and The Conversion of the Jewish Nation

There are more resources here (http://isoc.ws/bookcategory/author/fr-denis-fahey/)
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Cantarella on January 15, 2018, 12:22:53 PM
Quote
Two reasons can be assigned to the fact that Our Lord’s faithful members will often be betrayed by those who should be on the side of Christ the King. Firstly, many Catholic writers speak of Papal condemnations of Anti-Semitism without explaining the meaning of the term, and never even allude to the documents which insist on the Rights of Our Divine Lord, Head of the Mystical Body, Priest and King.  Thus, very many are completely ignorant of the duty incumbent on all Catholics of standing positively for Our Lord’s Reign in society in opposition to Jewish Naturalism.  The result is that numbers of Catholics are so ignorant of Catholic doctrine that they hurl the accusation of Anti-Semitism against those who are battling for the Rights of Christ the King, thus effectively aiding the enemies of Our Divine Lord.  Secondly, many Catholic writers copy unquestioningly what they read in the naturalistic or anti-Supernatural Press and do not distinguish between Anti-Semitism in the correct Catholic sense, as explained above, and “Anti-Semitism” as the Jews understand it.

For the Jews, “Anti-Semitism” is anything that is in opposition to the naturalistic Messianic domination of their nation over all the others.  Quite logically, the leaders of the Jewish nation hold that to stand for the Rights of Christ the King is to be “Anti-Semitic

Fr. Fahey
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 15, 2018, 03:09:13 PM
No problem. I should have caught your misunderstanding earlier so I would have made a sooner clarification.

Also, I want to say I don't doubt your conversion. I think you've generally been impartial on this forum regarding the perfidy of The International Jew. I hope my tone on this particular thread didn't seem harsh and suspicious of you when I mentioned your background. If it did, I apologize.
Thanks.  I'm just glad we got things cleared up and there are no hard feelings.

Years ago, when I was new to the forum and traditional Catholicism, I was full of wrong ideas about Jews .  There were some helpful posters who walked me through the issue until I could understand it better.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on January 16, 2018, 01:17:36 AM
A quick synopsis of the disposition of the Jew, hence we are to have an aversion for, and be guarded against, them.

The Lord tells us not to pray for Jews in Jeremias 11:9-15

 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=jeremias+11%3A9-15&b=drb&t=0)Jews are racially cursed due to the events in Matthew 27:25 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=matthew+27%3A25&b=drb). Their offspring inherit the curse through the generations. It must be noted that converts to the Judaism have the same curse befall them, which they will pass down to their children. Only Baptism into Jesus Christ with water and spirit can lift the curse of the Jew.

Jesus Christ tells us that Jews are the Synagogue of Satan in Apocalypse of St. John 2:9 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=revelation+2%3A9&b=drb&t=0) and 3:9  (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=revelation+3%3A9&b=drb&t=0)


Jews are a false religion and a race. Firstly, Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Faith of Abraham, whereas, today's Judaism ruptured itself from Abraham by rejecting Christ. In rejecting Christ, they rejected the God of their fathers, hence they became the Synagogue of Satan (Rev 2:9 & 3:9). Secondly, Jesus Christ is of true Davidian blood, but the Jews lost that biological lineage after the Diaspora when they mixed with Khazars and, subsequently, some of the host population of European nations. Moreover, the Jews became a cursed race due to the events in Matthew 27:25, therefore, they could never have the same genealogy as Jesus Christ. It is due to Jews' racial curse that they are are driven to sow & promote subversion, heresy, discord, perversions (porn, faggotry, trannies), usury, war, murder (abortion, etc), atheism, feminism, scientism, naturalism, and the revolutionary spirit. Many of the Jews involved in the aforementioned war on Christ's Social Kingship are actually atheists, but despite their lack of belief in any "deity", they're still wired to pave the way for Antichrist by their deeds, and they manifest an innate drive to band together and still identify as Jews. The Jews are guided by legions of demons, which is why they disproportionately hold positions of strategic importance in private & pubic sectors, hence effecting the order of sin against God. Jews only make up 2% of the U.S. population, and only around 1/5 of one percent of the global population, but their adversarial impact on humanity is huge and not a random coincidence.
That has to be the best explanation I've ever heard!  I've never seen anyone make the connection of The Curse on Jews and their Ancestry.  It's a perfect link between race and religion.  We are forever trying to say, it's one or the other, but you just proved it's both.  

This explains racial theories by people like Alex Linder, who's definitely not Catholic.  Obviously, he isn't making the spiritual connection, but he's still seeing it play out and thinking it's biology.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Cera on January 17, 2018, 04:59:54 PM
A quick synopsis of the disposition of the Jew, hence we are to have an aversion for, and be guarded against, them.

The Lord tells us not to pray for Jews in Jeremias 11:9-15

 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=jeremias+11%3A9-15&b=drb&t=0)Jews are racially cursed due to the events in Matthew 27:25 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=matthew+27%3A25&b=drb). Their offspring inherit the curse through the generations. It must be noted that converts to the Judaism have the same curse befall them, which they will pass down to their children. Only Baptism into Jesus Christ with water and spirit can lift the curse of the Jew.

Jesus Christ tells us that Jews are the Synagogue of Satan in Apocalypse of St. John 2:9 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=revelation+2%3A9&b=drb&t=0) and 3:9  (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=revelation+3%3A9&b=drb&t=0)


Jews are a false religion and a race. Firstly, Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Faith of Abraham, whereas, today's Judaism ruptured itself from Abraham by rejecting Christ. In rejecting Christ, they rejected the God of their fathers, hence they became the Synagogue of Satan (Rev 2:9 & 3:9). Secondly, Jesus Christ is of true Davidian blood, but the Jews lost that biological lineage after the Diaspora when they mixed with Khazars and, subsequently, some of the host population of European nations. Moreover, the Jews became a cursed race due to the events in Matthew 27:25, therefore, they could never have the same genealogy as Jesus Christ. It is due to Jews' racial curse that they are are driven to sow & promote subversion, heresy, discord, perversions (porn, faggotry, trannies), usury, war, murder (abortion, etc), atheism, feminism, scientism, naturalism, and the revolutionary spirit. Many of the Jews involved in the aforementioned war on Christ's Social Kingship are actually atheists, but despite their lack of belief in any "deity", they're still wired to pave the way for Antichrist by their deeds, and they manifest an innate drive to band together and still identify as Jews. The Jews are guided by legions of demons, which is why they disproportionately hold positions of strategic importance in private & pubic sectors, hence effecting the order of sin against God. Jews only make up 2% of the U.S. population, and only around 1/5 of one percent of the global population, but their adversarial impact on humanity is huge and not a random coincidence.
I looked at your quote from
Jeremias 11:9-15 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=jeremias+11%3A9-15&b=drb&t=0)
and found that Jesus in NOT referring to all Jews, only those who are part of the conspiracy. This would be the same sub-group of Jews of whom Jesus said "They that say they are Jews and are not" or "The Synagog of Satan>


A conspiracy is found among the men of Juda, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem. [10] (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=28&ch=11&l=10#x) They are returned to the former iniquities of their fathers, who refused to hear my words: so these likewise have gone after strange gods, to serve them: the house of Israel, and the house of Juda have made void my covenant, which I made with their fathers.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Cera on January 17, 2018, 05:02:48 PM
The post-70 AD Judaic-Talmudic religion is NOT the religion of the Old Testament which Jesus Christ fulfilled, and was absolutely ended as His Church was established. No more Temple sacrifice needed. God allowed the complete destruction of the Temple for a reason!
 No- the Talmudic man-made religion that we call "Jewish"exists only to oppose Christ and gain world domination. There is no other point to it's existence. The enemy of the Church- NOT our "elder brethren".
What you say is true of the statistical majority of those who call themselves Jews. There are, however, Jews of the Book or Jews of the Old Testament who are not Talmudists.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: JPaul on January 17, 2018, 05:42:43 PM
What you say is true of the statistical majority of those who call themselves Jews. There are, however, Jews of the Book or Jews of the Old Testament who are not Talmudists.
Judaism as such, is a man made construct. It is not a religion proper but more akin to a cult.
There are indeed some who practice the approximation of the ancient old Testament religion, (but they are few, a true remnant).
Those who call themselves Jews just because they do not follow the Talmud, does not automatically make them Israelites. The are simply members of this cult who do not hold the authority of the Rabbis to be supreme but still indulge in erroneous interpretation of the scriptures and Judaic practices just as their Talmudic brothers do.
They are still part of Judaism which is not a part of the old religion.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 21, 2018, 05:46:30 AM
I looked at your quote from
Jeremias 11:9-15 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=jeremias+11%3A9-15&b=drb&t=0)
and found that Jesus in NOT referring to all Jews, only those who are part of the conspiracy. This would be the same sub-group of Jews of whom Jesus said "They that say they are Jews and are not" or "The Synagog of Satan>

What you say is true of the statistical majority of those who call themselves Jews. There are, however, Jews of the Book or Jews of the Old Testament who are not Talmudists.

That's ALL Jews because they reject Jesus Christ Who is the fulfillment of the Faith of Abraham. In rejecting Jesus Christ, they ruptured themselves from Righteous Abraham, despite some of them purportedly adhering to the Old Testament while rejecting Talmudism.

What do you think 1 John 2:22-23 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=1+john+2%3A22-23&b=drb) and 1 John 4:3 (http://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=1+john+4%3A3&b=drb) means?

Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on January 22, 2018, 05:10:36 PM
That post from the other thread appears to equate withholding support from the state of Israel with anti-semitism.  That is an unreasonable position.  There are many good reasons that one might dislike or oppose the government of a country.  Personally, I think that Israel has several objectionable practices and policies.  It is unfair and illogical to automatically dismiss a political view as an irrational hatred of Jews.
and the US has a lot of questionable practices... like letting politicians be bought out by lobbyists, etc...
Does that make all of US bad?
In any case, I don't know who said or implied that a political view is "irrational hatred of Jews"
people should be a little more specific in their postings (Yes, maybe even me, but I am not the worst offender, to be sure)
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 22, 2018, 05:19:42 PM
and the US has a lot of questionable practices... like letting politicians be bought out by lobbyists, etc...
Does that make all of US bad?
In any case, I don't know who said or implied that a political view is "irrational hatred of Jews"
people should be a little more specific in their postings (Yes, maybe even me, but I am not the worst offender, to be sure)
You described a post in favour of withholding support from Israel as antisemitic. I took "antisemitic" to mean an irrational hatred of Jews.  Perhaps you meant prejudice against Jews or hostility to Jews.  You must have meant some sort of negative feeling about Jews.  But there was nothing in that post about Jews.  It was about the politics of dealing with Israel.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on January 22, 2018, 05:23:51 PM
You described a post in favour of withholding support from Israel as antisemitic. I took "antisemitic" to mean an irrational hatred of Jews.  Perhaps you meant prejudice against Jews or hostility to Jews.  You must have meant some sort of negative feeling about Jews.  But there was nothing in that post about Jews.  It was about the politics of dealing with Israel.  
well, i am always hesitant to criticize certain "policies" like that bc we the people are not always well informed about such
and it is hard to decide what to think when you may not have all the facts
In any case, the Palestinians are terrorists or support terrorists... 9 times out of 10
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 23, 2018, 04:20:35 PM
well, i am always hesitant to criticize certain "policies" like that bc we the people are not always well informed about such
and it is hard to decide what to think when you may not have all the facts
In any case, the Palestinians are terrorists or support terrorists... 9 times out of 10
My point is that it is not reasonable to automatically label criticisms of the State of Israel as antisemitism, whether or not one agrees with the criticisms.  Every other country in the world is open to criticism when people disagree with its policies.  We can criticize policies of France or England or Germany, etc. Why should Israel get a free pass?  Why should we be treated like bad, prejudiced, hostile people when we criticize this one particular country?
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 23, 2018, 05:02:23 PM

"Jews have not recognized Our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people."

 ~ Pope St. Pius X
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on January 29, 2018, 01:06:46 PM
if Judaism is false then you might as well say Catholicism is false since the latter stems from the former and is a continuation thereof, except with Christ.

Jesus was a Jew
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 29, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
if Judaism is false then you might as well say Catholicism is false since the latter stems from the former and is a continuation thereof, except with Christ.

Jesus was a Jew
Catholicism is a continuation of the Judaism of the Old Testament.  Modern Judaism is not. The negative comments about Judaism refer to modern Judaism.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on January 30, 2018, 02:09:21 AM
On January 1 we celebrate the feast of the Circumcision of Jesus.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on January 31, 2018, 03:30:57 AM
"I have always been on good terms with Jews.

Pope St Pius X
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on January 31, 2018, 03:32:29 AM
Only the other evening two Jews were here to see me. After all, there are other bonds than those of religion: courtesy and philanthropy.

Pope St Pius X

http://www.ccjr.us/dialogika-resources/primary-texts-from-the-history-of-the-relationship/1253-herzl1904

Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on January 31, 2018, 03:34:34 AM
In this way Lippay wanted to account for his introducing me, perhaps to excuse it. But the Pope said: "On the contrary, I am glad you brought me the Signor Commendatore."

http://www.ccjr.us/dialogika-resources/primary-texts-from-the-history-of-the-relationship/1253-herzl1904

Signor Commendatore was how Pope St Pius X referred to Herzl. He was friendly to the Jews.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on January 31, 2018, 01:42:51 PM
Catholicism is a continuation of the Judaism of the Old Testament.  Modern Judaism is not. The negative comments about Judaism refer to modern Judaism.
well, maybe posters should SAY so
it's almost like some posters couldn't care less if they are u/stood or not
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Nadir on January 31, 2018, 02:46:49 PM
 I don't understand what u/stood means, can you clarify please, Graceseeker.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Jaynek on January 31, 2018, 03:27:33 PM
well, maybe posters should SAY so
it's almost like some posters couldn't care less if they are u/stood or not
This is why some people are recommending that you hold back from offering opinions so much while you are new to traditional Catholicism.  There are things like this that people are going to assume that everyone knows.  People just don't always bother to spell everything out.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on January 31, 2018, 03:32:19 PM
This is why some people are recommending that you (graceseeker) hold back from offering opinions so much while you are new to traditional Catholicism.  There are things like this that people are going to assume that everyone knows.  People just don't always bother to spell everything out.  

graceseeker is a crypto-Jew troll. The truth about the Catholic Faith and the Antichrist religion of Judaism has clearly been explained to him. He is obstinate in his falsity and he pretends to not understand the truth being told to him.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: JezusDeKoning on January 31, 2018, 04:05:44 PM
graceseeker is a crypto-Jew troll. The truth about the Catholic Faith and the Antichrist religion of Judaism has clearly been explained to him. He is obstinate in his falsity and he pretends to not understand the truth being told to him.
Can we call a spade and a spade and admit that graceseeker might be a kike, period?
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on February 01, 2018, 12:05:48 AM
Can we call a spade and a spade and admit that graceseeker might be a kike, period?
He could also be a good Catholic with a better grasp of the faith than either one of us.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: 1st Mansion Tenant on February 01, 2018, 02:27:14 AM
graceseeker is a crypto-Jew troll. The truth about the Catholic Faith and the Antichrist religion of Judaism has clearly been explained to him. He is obstinate in his falsity and he pretends to not understand the truth being told to him.
I don't think that's true. I think that graceseeker is a confused Catholic who has had little exposure to the faith outside of his (?) NO experiences and soundbites picked up here and there. I think he is honestly baffled by the traditional Catholic attitudes and beliefs that he hasn't been exposed to before, having been marinated in NewChurch brine and either not receiving a  solid catechism, or being misinformed by NO priests and laymen if questions arose. It's not like the NO would point anyone in the direction of traditional Catholic ideas, especially concerning social/political issues. What is irritating however, is that the effort of members to provide correction when he drops some painfully non-Catholic comment results in a quick abandonment of discourse; and the beginning of several new threads to bury it. (Being corrected is a humbling experience, I have been corrected at times here on CI over the years, and even 'pulled up short' once or twice. It can help you delve deeper into the Faith, and often the study that begins in a prideful attempt to prove yourself on the right side of an argument - can lead to learning more than you ever would have otherwise!)
Also, I believe, (and I may be wrong), that the style of writing as well as the emotional slant of many posts make me think that the gender signifier on his profile may have been a red herring intended to provide extra anonymity. I think our Catholic gentlemen might temper their responses a bit if they considered this. 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on February 01, 2018, 04:32:25 PM
I don't think that's true. I think that graceseeker is a confused Catholic who has had little exposure to the faith outside of his (?) NO experiences and soundbites picked up here and there. I think he is honestly baffled by the traditional Catholic attitudes and beliefs that he hasn't been exposed to before, having been marinated in NewChurch brine and either not receiving a  solid catechism, or being misinformed by NO priests and laymen if questions arose.
this is what I have read so far

I find this almost laughable. For one, I am created in God's image, despite apparent accusations to the contrary, accusations thinly disguised here in other forms but obviously (I'm wiser than you/you are ignorant, etc)  accusations just the same

As such a creature created in God's image, I think I can figure out what is truth and what is error. All i need, all anyone seeking truth needs... or wait, all a CATHOLIC needs is to WANT truth, which i do

Catholics, and i have been one virtually all my life (depending on the exact definition of the word) know Jesus

And so no one can come along and give us a false Jesus. I know His Church, I know His Word (which are united, of course)

I have read a lot of the Catechism, have read the whole Bible..

I hate this attitude on the forums that basically, anyone who doesn't agree with a given poster is ignorant, doesn't know the Faith, and worse, doesn't WANT to really know the faith.

It comes across... well, one word that comes to mind

malice

disingenuous would be another one

an excuse to accuse

an excuse to feel superior (being other ones)
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on February 01, 2018, 04:37:35 PM
He could also be a good Catholic with a better grasp of the faith than either one of us.
Thank you. That was quite charitable
and isn't it charity what gets us to Heaven?
without charity, we are a clanging cymbal. Of course, I realize I do not exactly always and in ever way focus on charity myself... sigh...
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: JezusDeKoning on February 01, 2018, 04:39:39 PM
He could also be a good Catholic with a better grasp of the faith than either one of us.
Disingenuous horseshit. If he's a good Catholic, then I'm the king of Portugal. He's had so much time to actively learn about the Faith. He's not ignorant, he's just a heretic.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: 1st Mansion Tenant on February 01, 2018, 08:03:17 PM
this is what I have read so far

did you read the rest?

I find this almost laughable. For one, I am created in God's image, despite apparent accusations to the contrary, accusations thinly disguised here in other forms but obviously (I'm wiser than you/you are ignorant, etc)  accusations just the same

I certainly have no doubt that you were created in God's image as were all people, everywhere and from all time. I'm not sure how I might have implied that. 

As such a creature created in God's image, I think I can figure out what is truth and what is error. All i need, all anyone seeking truth needs... or wait, all a CATHOLIC needs is to WANT truth, which i do

If you can't see the terrible error in theology in the sentence above, then it shows there is a huge problem with your  understanding of Catholic teaching. You might pretty much need to go back to square one and unlearn some ideas that you have adopted for whatever reason.

Catholics, and i have been one virtually all my life (depending on the exact definition of the word) know Jesus

And so no one can come along and give us a false Jesus. I know His Church, I know His Word (which are united, of course)

Well, there are many instances of people being deceived by false Jesus', and of being either uninformed or stubbornly adhering to wrong teachings, thus proclaiming they "know" things that are actually dogmatic errors.


I have read a lot of the Catechism, have read the whole Bible..

Saying you have read "a lot" of the Catechism inherently implies that there are parts you skipped. That would explain many of  the comments that members take exception to. It's fantastic to read the Bible, every Catholic should, and often ;but I wonder if you are infected with Sola Scriptura  and the idea that it dominates over Church teaching, dogma? 

I hate this attitude on the forums that basically, anyone who doesn't agree with a given poster is ignorant, doesn't know the Faith, and worse, doesn't WANT to really know the faith.

No-one here expects to be in agreement about everything, quite the contrary --- except for Traditional Catholic Teaching

It comes across... well, one word that comes to mind

malice

disingenuous would be another one

an excuse to accuse

an excuse to feel superior (being other ones)

I am sorry that you feel like that. But when you drop statements that others can clearly see are in error and possibly a  danger to the faith if they aren't cleared-up (because of your presumed ignorance-like the one in your 3rd paragraph) what are we supposed to do? Even I can see the more glaring ones, and it sure isn't because I'm some expert theologian. I've made plenty of mistakes, and stood corrected in things over the years; and no doubt will be again- But you don't seem to want to be corrected, or to learn much of anything. You just shake your proverbial fist, and call us unCatholic, malicious, etc for making the effort. Sounds to me like those detested 'liberals' you are always on about.   1MT
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on February 02, 2018, 02:03:22 AM
Disingenuous horseshit. If he's a good Catholic, then I'm the king of Portugal. He's had so much time to actively learn about the Faith. He's not ignorant, he's just a heretic.
You can never be sure when looking at the internet who is really who. That young 16 year old girl could really be a 41 year old auto mechanic.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on February 02, 2018, 02:26:09 AM
It is now the feast of the Presentation, a feast that demonstrates how we come from the Jews. 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Incredulous on February 03, 2018, 03:15:43 PM


Jeepers, this is starting to remind me of a Baptism of Desire argument.   :facepalm:

Lay all the evidence at the feet of a judaizer and they don't address the points, but keep on denying it.  

Perhaps these characters are really Trolls in disguise?

Very simply put, anyone on this forum who supports Judaic-Talmudism... is either a bad Catholic or judeo-masonic-troll.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Incredulous on February 03, 2018, 03:21:43 PM
You can never be sure when looking at the internet who is really who. That young 16 year old girl could really be a 41 year old auto mechanic.
Yeah, wonder if we have old lady, Novus ordo Eucharistic ministers on this forum too?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmt3TuXrK6J6158Je-otltEhXg8Km6Ff_zJ_cF0VExxclOBvh5)
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Incredulous on February 03, 2018, 03:27:02 PM
It is now the feast of the Presentation, a feast that demonstrates how we come from the Jews.

Poche,

Are you saying we come from Talmudic-judaism?

Because that's what the jews believe today.

Don't try to gloss over or obfuscate the facts.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Nadir on February 03, 2018, 06:10:51 PM
Yeah, wonder if we have old lady, Novus ordo Eucharistic ministers on this forum too?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmt3TuXrK6J6158Je-otltEhXg8Km6Ff_zJ_cF0VExxclOBvh5)
Not that I know of, but we do have Poche.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on February 04, 2018, 10:57:34 PM
Poche,

Are you saying we come from Talmudic-judaism?

Because that's what the jews believe today.

Don't try to gloss over or obfuscate the facts.
I am saying what Pope St Pius said and I recognize that many aspects of teh Catholic practice have some kind of origin from the Jews.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on February 05, 2018, 03:44:06 PM
Disingenuous horseshit. If he's a good Catholic, then I'm the king of Portugal. He's had so much time to actively learn about the Faith. He's not ignorant, he's just a heretic.
you will never get to Heaven with that kind of hatred, judgmentalism, and presumption (as to others's motives)...
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on February 05, 2018, 03:46:49 PM
Poche,

Are you saying we come from Talmudic-judaism?

Because that's what the jews believe today.

Don't try to gloss over or obfuscate the facts.
one way you can tell anti-Semitic people from those who have a legitimate point to make is this
no one w/ a legitimate point and TRUE knowledge of a situation/issue would ever say "The Jews [da da da da da]... anymore than he would say "The Catholics [da da da da da]"
That (lumping all individuals into one group so as to denigrate them and judge them collectively) is bigotry, in fact the textbook definition thereof
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Capt McQuigg on February 06, 2018, 10:48:03 PM
Catholicism originated from Our Lord.  The Jews, and the Law, were merely a preparatory stepping stool to prepare a place for Our Lord to come and establish His Church.  To continue in Judaism after the world received Our Lord is to deny Our Lord.

Your posts, Graceseeker, seem to flirt with this denial.  It is best for you to stop and think about your beliefs.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Capt McQuigg on February 06, 2018, 10:52:01 PM
this is what I have read so far

I find this almost laughable. For one, I am created in God's image, despite apparent accusations to the contrary, accusations thinly disguised here in other forms but obviously (I'm wiser than you/you are ignorant, etc)  accusations just the same

As such a creature created in God's image, I think I can figure out what is truth and what is error. All i need, all anyone seeking truth needs... or wait, all a CATHOLIC needs is to WANT truth, which i do

Catholics, and i have been one virtually all my life (depending on the exact definition of the word) know Jesus

And so no one can come along and give us a false Jesus. I know His Church, I know His Word (which are united, of course)

I have read a lot of the Catechism, have read the whole Bible..

I hate this attitude on the forums that basically, anyone who doesn't agree with a given poster is ignorant, doesn't know the Faith, and worse, doesn't WANT to really know the faith.

It comes across... well, one word that comes to mind

malice

disingenuous would be another one

an excuse to accuse

an excuse to feel superior (being other ones)
Tone down the presumption.  Pray daily that you may really know Our Lord.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on February 07, 2018, 04:41:03 PM
I am saying what Pope St Pius said and I recognize that many aspects of teh Catholic practice have some kind of origin from the Jews.
some kind of?
If you read the Old T (Douay Rheims version) you will see nothing but CATHOLIC stuff in this supposedly Jewish-centered book (OT)
We get our rituals from the Jewish religion
I mean, I don't even know where to begin... the Ark of the Covenant is now the tabernacle where the Real Presence (consecrated Hosts) abide 24/7 just as there was always a light burning in the Temple... and God's Presence visited the Israelites there in the temple (He connects with us today in the Real Presence, assuming Jesus hasn't... left the Building entirely. I feel that many Churches are bereft of the Real Presence today bc of unholy priests)
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on February 10, 2018, 02:32:06 AM
some kind of?
If you read the Old T (Douay Rheims version) you will see nothing but CATHOLIC stuff in this supposedly Jewish-centered book (OT)
We get our rituals from the Jewish religion
I mean, I don't even know where to begin... the Ark of the Covenant is now the tabernacle where the Real Presence (consecrated Hosts) abide 24/7 just as there was always a light burning in the Temple... and God's Presence visited the Israelites there in the temple (He connects with us today in the Real Presence, assuming Jesus hasn't... left the Building entirely. I feel that many Churches are bereft of the Real Presence today bc of unholy priests)
Right, but what does any of that have to do with jews today?  Their religion would make Moses puke, Samson want to kill them and King Solomon think they were fools.  Talmudic Judaism is a perversion of The Old Testament, which Catholics revere.  You seem stubbornly ignorant of this fact.  

Saying that some Jews aren't Talmudic is like saying some Catholics don't actually believe in The Divinity of Christ.  If you are truly jewish you belong to The Synagogue of Satan;  if you are truly Catholic you belong to Christ.  I can't help it if some people are confused about who and what they really are and where they belong.  

Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on February 10, 2018, 02:34:19 AM
In this way Lippay wanted to account for his introducing me, perhaps to excuse it. But the Pope said: "On the contrary, I am glad you brought me the Signor Commendatore."

http://www.ccjr.us/dialogika-resources/primary-texts-from-the-history-of-the-relationship/1253-herzl1904

Signor Commendatore was how Pope St Pius X referred to Herzl. He was friendly to the Jews.
That link you posted was from The Council on Jewish-Christian Relations (one of those idiotic dialogue groups, started from Vatican II)  

About CCJR

Created: November 29, -0001
"The Council of Centers on Jewish-Christian Relations is an association of centers and institutes in the United States and Canada devoted to enhancing mutual understanding between Jews and Christians. It is dedicated to research, publication, educational programming, and interreligious dialogue that respect the religious integrity and self-understanding of the various strands of the Jewish and Christian traditions."

http://www.ccjr.us/about
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on February 10, 2018, 02:48:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VM2eLhvsSM

World Unification via International Business = Tower of Babel = Cursed by God  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on February 10, 2018, 02:51:57 AM
Real Catholicism is not so extremely tolerant

(http://images.slideplayer.com/14/4293868/slides/slide_3.jpg)
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on February 10, 2018, 03:07:21 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT9YKjn67Og

Us and Them 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on February 10, 2018, 03:57:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VM2eLhvsSM

World Unification via International Business = Tower of Babel = Cursed by God  
World unification through conversion to the Catholic Faith = Blessed by God
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on February 10, 2018, 05:28:31 AM
World unification through conversion to the Catholic Faith = Blessed by God
Yeah, that's the only way, but The Church has always defended and promoted The Natural Order and Hierarchy.  So, The Church is as far away from Egalitarianism as you can get.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on February 15, 2018, 12:55:11 PM
Catholicism originated from Our Lord.  The Jews, and the Law, were merely a preparatory stepping stool to prepare a place for Our Lord to come and establish His Church.  To continue in Judaism after the world received Our Lord is to deny Our Lord.

Your posts, Graceseeker, seem to flirt with this denial.  It is best for you to stop and think about your beliefs.  
another kind of post to ignore is the one where poster acts like he knows everything and you know zip
to me, that is just thinly disguised mental thuggery
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Cera on February 27, 2018, 06:05:55 PM
Real Catholicism is not so extremely tolerant

(http://images.slideplayer.com/14/4293868/slides/slide_3.jpg)
Am I missing something here? I see no "intolerance."
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on February 27, 2018, 07:22:06 PM
another kind of post to ignore is the one where poster acts like he knows everything and you know zip
to me, that is just thinly disguised mental thuggery
I think he's just trying to help you.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on February 27, 2018, 07:32:46 PM
Am I missing something here? I see no "intolerance."
Catholic Queen Isabella and The Catholic Spanish Inquisition are routinely accused of Anti-Semitism in the extreme, because they believed that Jews and Muslims could not be trusted to defend Catholic Spain from Islamic aggression, but would instead betray Spain to her enemies.  By modern standards, that is "intolerance."  Of course, I believe that modern standards have made terms like:  tolerance, racism, anti-semtism, islamaphobia, homophobia, bigotry, prejudice and bias meaningless.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on February 27, 2018, 07:36:34 PM
Best video ever on The Spanish Inquisistion by, Dr. Warren H. Carroll  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnM4vHMcan0

The Truth About The Spanish Inquisition
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on February 28, 2018, 02:15:33 AM
Catholic Queen Isabella and The Catholic Spanish Inquisition are routinely accused of Anti-Semitism in the extreme, because they believed that Jews and Muslims could not be trusted to defend Catholic Spain from Islamic aggression, but would instead betray Spain to her enemies.  By modern standards, that is "intolerance."  Of course, I believe that modern standards have made terms like:  tolerance, racism, anti-semtism, islamaphobia, homophobia, bigotry, prejudice and bias meaningless.  
Christian Egypt was betrayed by the Monosophyte patriarch of Alexandria. 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 01, 2018, 03:38:38 PM
Christian Egypt was betrayed by the Monosophyte patriarch of Alexandria.
I don't know anything about that.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on March 01, 2018, 04:15:20 PM

These offspring of the Serpent in Genesis 3:15 are not biological descendants of David, nor do they hold the Faith of Abraham which was fulfilled by Jesus Christ:


(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27972352_152164922260926_479990580688414461_n.jpg?oh=9ef5274ae0cf8caf4a8f5a9a75abaa40&oe=5B0EC833)

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27750453_152165072260911_2846999650302240305_n.jpg?oh=f92b7a66cafae46d9afd1d0eec6c6354&oe=5B08C3D0)

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27982832_152165208927564_5615315930987853462_o.jpg?oh=49e5fba136463931fa391547bd837b3b&oe=5B3FBA98)

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27750680_152165345594217_3362369619268741922_n.jpg?oh=bd2241a97ca4e0fa253ad9a22e9c3935&oe=5B462D57)

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27992849_152165462260872_8931572799515463242_o.jpg?oh=afeb6d5ebe7cd45166f663eb3bf34031&oe=5B038F8B)

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27971559_152165548927530_8223800302848815423_n.jpg?oh=51b3d49f29380d9fdb71d4625f69162f&oe=5B02F9A5)

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28056359_152165622260856_3951309874692704857_n.jpg?oh=4df8245e4cc889247b5708d64d0ca5f6&oe=5B113CF2)

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27752160_152168758927209_8871063672915176457_n.jpg?oh=e4b2c8747058cbe30eec3b518433b37a&oe=5B3ED66C)

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27750553_152168838927201_597386941196696643_n.jpg?oh=86d8400e3840dc38fd074e8d01fbf9eb&oe=5B49A373)

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28423441_164322997711785_4449916015018701910_o.jpg?oh=cc0175c1551db1895b8246482ed88976&oe=5B13D06F)

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28467703_164323324378419_6793053454117864274_n.jpg?oh=3a852c6ec441caca664b818a10a932d0&oe=5B11B39A)

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28468172_164322904378461_7482882018806224413_n.jpg?oh=e7188ac30dd284edcd3f8907fcaf3948&oe=5B407E7F)
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 02, 2018, 05:16:06 AM
I don't know anything about that.  
The Patriarch of Alexandria at the time handed the keys of the Babylon fort (the key fort in Egypt)  over to the Muslims so that they could take over and the rest is history.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on March 05, 2018, 11:33:34 AM
The Patriarch of Alexandria at the time handed the keys of the Babylon fort (the key fort in Egypt)  over to the Muslims so that they could take over and the rest is history.  
The Muslim religion is no good
 Koran says they should kill enemies... which is everyone who doesn't agree with them... I have read some of the Koran and read books written by those who have studied it
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Croix de Fer on March 05, 2018, 11:41:52 AM
The Muslim religion is no good
 Koran says they should kill enemies... which is everyone who doesn't agree with them... I have read some of the Koran and read books written by those who have studied it

The Jewish Babylonian Talmud is worse:


“If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ (Gentile) there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)

"What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)

“Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)

“If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a)

“All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)

“Girls born of the ‘goyim’ are in a state of ‘niddah’ (menstrual uncleanness!) from birth.” (Abodah Zarah 36b)

“If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)


“The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)

“If you eat with a ‘goy’ it is the same as eating with a dog.” (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)

“Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)

“Sexual intercourse between the ‘goyim’ is like intercourse between animals.” (Sanhedrin 74b)

“When it comes to a Gentile in peace times, one may harm him indirectly, for instance, by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice.” (Shulkan Arukh, Yoreh De ‘ah, 158, Hebrew Edition only)


“‘Yashu’ (derogatory for ‘Jesus’) is in Hell being boiled in hot excrement.” (Gittin 57a)

[’Yashu’ is an acronym for the Jewish curse, ‘May his (Jesus) name be wiped out forevermore.’]

Yashu (Jesus) was sexually immoral and worshipped a brick.” (Sanhedrin 107b)

“Yashu (Jesus) was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness and refused to repent.” (Sotah 47a)

“Miriam (Mary) the hairdresser had sex with many men.” (Shabbath 104b, Hebrew Edition only)

“She who was the descendant of princes and governors (the virgin Mary) played the harlot with carpenters.” (Sanhedrin 106a)

“Christians who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.” (Rosh Hashanah 17a)


Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Nadir on March 05, 2018, 06:31:04 PM


(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTn4-9U4mVVP8coomZlAp4aBwqIozfTUE9mUq_6NPMiI3Bg5F_-)
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: JezusDeKoning on March 05, 2018, 06:52:13 PM
The Muslim religion is no good
 Koran says they should kill enemies... which is everyone who doesn't agree with them... I have read some of the Koran and read books written by those who have studied it
Yes, but the Talmud is worse.

There are decent Jews out there who pay their taxes and love their families and all that. Should we be praying that all synagogues in America burn down? No. Is their holy book atrocious dreck? Absolutely. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 05, 2018, 11:38:07 PM
Yes, but the Talmud is worse.

There are decent Jews out there who pay their taxes and love their families and all that. Should we be praying that all synagogues in America burn down? No. Is their holy book atrocious dreck? Absolutely. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.
the Torah is the  Pentateuch, the first five books of the Bible.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Nadir on March 06, 2018, 01:17:04 AM
Poche, you don't seem to get it.


https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-Talmud-and-the-Torah
What is the difference between the Talmud and the Torah?

19 Answers

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-thumb-8884746-50-fbtcvgnrcjhwcnwqgqorcrevrrpnehhf.jpeg) (https://www.quora.com/profile/Shulamit-Widawsky)
Shulamit Widawsky (https://www.quora.com/profile/Shulamit-Widawsky), BA Psychology & Judaism, American Jewish University
Answered Dec 1, 2015 (https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-Talmud-and-the-Torah/answer/Shulamit-Widawsky) · Author has 6.9k answers and 11.9m answer views


Originally Answered: What is the difference between Torah and Talmud? (https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Torah-and-Talmud?no_redirect=1)

The Torah is the Hebrew Bible, and while some people think of just the "Five Books of Moses" Torah refers to all of the Hebrew Bible, including such books as Joshua, Psalms, Book of Ruth, etc.  The first five books are written in the scroll that is read in the synagogue every week.  Other books of the Torah may also be written in their own individual scrolls.  But all of them are available in book form as well.

The first five books of Torah were originally memorized orally, and took written form over time, http://www.britannica.com/topic/... (http://www.britannica.com/topic/Hebrew-Bible) in the period from 1200 to 100 BCE.  Well before the Talmud took shape.

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-529de0deeaa5c70f0edf4b6e68a7074b.webp)


The Talmud is the compilation of the historic rabbis "discussing" or "debating" what the Torah means.  Some of the tractates come to conclusions, but many leave the debate open ended.  This is part of why Jews can continue to study Torah and Talmud, and continue to debate meanings, in all times and cultural changes.  The format of the Talmud is always in book form, The entire Talmud consists of 63 tractates, and in standard print is over 6,200 pages long.

The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah (Hebrew: משנה, c. 200 CE), which is a written compendium of Rabbinic Judaism's Oral Torah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Torah) (Talmud translates literally as "instruction" in Hebrew); and the Gemara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemara) (c. 500 CE), an attempt at clarification of the Mishnah and related writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Hebrew Bible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh). In the middle of the page is the text that is being discussed, and the sections around the central text, as well as in the margins, are the commentaries that sometimes build upon each other, and were written at very different times in history, but took this form some time less than a thousand years ago.  The oldest full manuscript of the Talmud, known as the Munich Talmud dates from 1342 and is available online (http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00003409/images/index.html)

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-aadee03c0b3b23de6d138244cff4359f.webp)

The actual way various passages of each of these texts were created will probably be debated for all time.  But the major difference between them is that tradition tells us G-d gave us Torah, and rabbis gave us Talmud.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 06, 2018, 02:09:57 AM
Poche, you don't seem to get it.


https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-Talmud-and-the-Torah
What is the difference between the Talmud and the Torah?

19 Answers

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-thumb-8884746-50-fbtcvgnrcjhwcnwqgqorcrevrrpnehhf.jpeg) (https://www.quora.com/profile/Shulamit-Widawsky)
Shulamit Widawsky (https://www.quora.com/profile/Shulamit-Widawsky), BA Psychology & Judaism, American Jewish University
Answered Dec 1, 2015 (https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-Talmud-and-the-Torah/answer/Shulamit-Widawsky) · Author has 6.9k answers and 11.9m answer views


Originally Answered: What is the difference between Torah and Talmud? (https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Torah-and-Talmud?no_redirect=1)

The Torah is the Hebrew Bible, and while some people think of just the "Five Books of Moses" Torah refers to all of the Hebrew Bible, including such books as Joshua, Psalms, Book of Ruth, etc.  The first five books are written in the scroll that is read in the synagogue every week.  Other books of the Torah may also be written in their own individual scrolls.  But all of them are available in book form as well.

The first five books of Torah were originally memorized orally, and took written form over time, http://www.britannica.com/topic/... (http://www.britannica.com/topic/Hebrew-Bible) in the period from 1200 to 100 BCE.  Well before the Talmud took shape.

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-529de0deeaa5c70f0edf4b6e68a7074b.webp)


The Talmud is the compilation of the historic rabbis "discussing" or "debating" what the Torah means.  Some of the tractates come to conclusions, but many leave the debate open ended.  This is part of why Jews can continue to study Torah and Talmud, and continue to debate meanings, in all times and cultural changes.  The format of the Talmud is always in book form, The entire Talmud consists of 63 tractates, and in standard print is over 6,200 pages long.

The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah (Hebrew: משנה, c. 200 CE), which is a written compendium of Rabbinic Judaism's Oral Torah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Torah) (Talmud translates literally as "instruction" in Hebrew); and the Gemara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemara) (c. 500 CE), an attempt at clarification of the Mishnah and related writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Hebrew Bible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh). In the middle of the page is the text that is being discussed, and the sections around the central text, as well as in the margins, are the commentaries that sometimes build upon each other, and were written at very different times in history, but took this form some time less than a thousand years ago.  The oldest full manuscript of the Talmud, known as the Munich Talmud dates from 1342 and is available online (http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00003409/images/index.html)

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-aadee03c0b3b23de6d138244cff4359f.webp)

The actual way various passages of each of these texts were created will probably be debated for all time.  But the major difference between them is that tradition tells us G-d gave us Torah, and rabbis gave us Talmud.

So, the Torah is good.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Nadir on March 06, 2018, 02:19:44 AM
So, the Torah is good.
Who said it wasn't? I can't believe you are really as thick as two short planks!
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 06, 2018, 03:11:20 AM
Poche, you don't seem to get it.


https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-Talmud-and-the-Torah
What is the difference between the Talmud and the Torah?

19 Answers

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-thumb-8884746-50-fbtcvgnrcjhwcnwqgqorcrevrrpnehhf.jpeg) (https://www.quora.com/profile/Shulamit-Widawsky)
Shulamit Widawsky (https://www.quora.com/profile/Shulamit-Widawsky), BA Psychology & Judaism, American Jewish University
Answered Dec 1, 2015 (https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-Talmud-and-the-Torah/answer/Shulamit-Widawsky) · Author has 6.9k answers and 11.9m answer views


Originally Answered: What is the difference between Torah and Talmud? (https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Torah-and-Talmud?no_redirect=1)

The Torah is the Hebrew Bible, and while some people think of just the "Five Books of Moses" Torah refers to all of the Hebrew Bible, including such books as Joshua, Psalms, Book of Ruth, etc.  The first five books are written in the scroll that is read in the synagogue every week.  Other books of the Torah may also be written in their own individual scrolls.  But all of them are available in book form as well.

The first five books of Torah were originally memorized orally, and took written form over time, http://www.britannica.com/topic/... (http://www.britannica.com/topic/Hebrew-Bible) in the period from 1200 to 100 BCE.  Well before the Talmud took shape.

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-529de0deeaa5c70f0edf4b6e68a7074b.webp)


The Talmud is the compilation of the historic rabbis "discussing" or "debating" what the Torah means.  Some of the tractates come to conclusions, but many leave the debate open ended.  This is part of why Jews can continue to study Torah and Talmud, and continue to debate meanings, in all times and cultural changes.  The format of the Talmud is always in book form, The entire Talmud consists of 63 tractates, and in standard print is over 6,200 pages long.

The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah (Hebrew: משנה, c. 200 CE), which is a written compendium of Rabbinic Judaism's Oral Torah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Torah) (Talmud translates literally as "instruction" in Hebrew); and the Gemara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemara) (c. 500 CE), an attempt at clarification of the Mishnah and related writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Hebrew Bible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh). In the middle of the page is the text that is being discussed, and the sections around the central text, as well as in the margins, are the commentaries that sometimes build upon each other, and were written at very different times in history, but took this form some time less than a thousand years ago.  The oldest full manuscript of the Talmud, known as the Munich Talmud dates from 1342 and is available online (http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00003409/images/index.html)

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-aadee03c0b3b23de6d138244cff4359f.webp)

The actual way various passages of each of these texts were created will probably be debated for all time.  But the major difference between them is that tradition tells us G-d gave us Torah, and rabbis gave us Talmud.

However, Jews hold The Talmud to have more esteem/respect/authority, than they do The Torah.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Nadir on March 06, 2018, 07:10:45 PM
However, Jews hold The Talmud to have more esteem/respect/authority, than they do The Torah.  
Yes! Try telling that that Poche. He pretends he doesn't understand that the two are in opposition to each other - the Torah the word of God, the Talmud that of the devil. Poche is just here to stir the pot.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: St Ignatius on March 06, 2018, 07:48:22 PM
Who said it wasn't? I can't believe you are really as thick as two short planks!
Maybe poche was hit upside his thick skull with two short planks... or maybe, he NEEDS to be hit upside his thick skull with two short planks!
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: St Ignatius on March 06, 2018, 08:13:51 PM
Satanic Verses Of The Jewish Talmud (http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=156)
Talmud Articles (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=319), Judaism Articles (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=353), Why I Left Judaism (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=160), Satanic Verses Of The Jewish Talmud (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=139), Jews Are NOT The "Chosen People" (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=53), Judaism's Strange Gods (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=15)

(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/talhate.jpg)
SATANIC VERSES OF THE JEWISH TALMUD
By Brother Nathanael Kapner, Copyright 2008-2011
(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/header2.jpg)
Articles May Be Reproduced Only With Authorship of Br Nathanael Kapner
& Link To Real Jew News (SM) (http://www.realjewnews.com/)


Please Help Support This Site!

(http://www.brovids.com/images/CP_EN_GR_A_001.gif) (https://co.clickandpledge.com/?wid=40066)


[color=0033FF]Or Send Your Contribution To:
[/b]
[color=FF0000]Brother Nathanael Kapner; PO Box 547; Priest River ID 83856[/color]
E-mail: bronathanael@yahoo.com

Sources: The Talmud, Soncino Press, Hebrew-English; The Truth About The Talmud, Michael Hoffman Here (http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html); Jewish History-Jewish Religion, Israel ShahakHere (http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jewhis1.htm); The Plot Against Christianity, Elizabeth DillingHere (http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/dcontents.html)
[/font][/size][/color]

[color=660033]THE JEWISH TALMUD 
[/b]is “Holy Writ” for the Jews.
[/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/color][/font][/size]

The Talmud supercedes the Old Testament in authority for the Jews. And the Talmud is the most racist, hate-mongering , blasphemous book the world has ever known.
The Talmud was written in Hebrewbetween the 3rd & 6th Centuries as a codification of the so-called Oral Law that the Jewish rabbis claim was handed down from Moses.
But the Messiah Jesus censored the “Oral Law” when He said, “By the traditions of your elders you make void the Word of God.” (St Matthew 15).
The English translation of the Talmud has been watered down so as to conceal from the Gentiles the “satanic verses” contained in the original Hebrew.
The “Satanic Verses” of the Talmud can be classified into 3 categories:
[color=00CC00]1)[/color] Jewish Supremacy.
[color=00CC00]2)[/color] Hatred Towards The “Goys” (Gentiles).
[color=00CC00]3)[/color] Blasphemies Against Jesus Christ, The Virgin Mary, & All Christians.

(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/sv1a.jpg)

[color=FF0000]SATANIC VERSES OF THE TALMUD’S
“JEWISH SUPREMACY”
[/color]

[color=9900FF]*[/color] “If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)
[color=9900FF]*[/color] “If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a)
[color=9900FF]*[/color] “If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
[color=9900FF]*[/color] What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
[color=9900FF]*[/color] “Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)
[color=9900FF]*[/color] “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)
[color=9900FF]*[/color] “Girls born of the ‘goyim’ are in a state of ‘niddah’ (menstrual uncleanness!) from birth.” (Abodah Zarah 36b)

(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/sv2.jpg)

[color=FF0000]SATANIC VERSES OF THE TALMUD’S
HATRED TOWARDS THE GENTILES
[/color]

[color=00CC00]*[/color] “The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)
[color=00CC00]*[/color] “If you eat with a ‘goy’ it is the same as eating with a dog.” (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)
[color=00CC00]*[/color] “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)
[color=00CC00]*[/color] “Sexual intercourse between the ‘goyim’ is like intercourse between animals.” (Sanhedrin 74b)
[color=00CC00]*[/color] “When it comes to a Gentile in peace times, one may harm him indirectly, for instance, by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice.” (Shulkan Arukh, Yoreh De ‘ah, 158, Hebrew Edition only)

(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/sv3.jpg)

[color=FF0000]SATANIC VERSES OF THE TALMUD’S
BLASPHEMIES AGAINST JESUS CHRIST, THE VIRGIN MARY,
& ALL CHRISTIANS
[/color]

[color=0000CC]*[/color] “‘Yashu’ (derogatory for ‘Jesus’) is in Hell being boiled in hot excrement.” (Gittin 57a)
[’Yashu’ is an acronym for the Jewish curse, ‘May his (Jesus) name be wiped out forevermore.’]
[color=0000CC]*[/color] Yashu (Jesus) was sexually immoral and worshipped a brick.” (Sanhedrin 107b)
[color=0000CC]*[/color] “Yashu (Jesus) was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness and refused to repent.” (Sotah 47a)
[color=0000CC]*[/color] “Miriam the hairdresser had sex with many men.” (Shabbath 104b, Hebrew Edition only)
[color=0000CC]*[/color] “She who was the descendant of princes and governors (the virgin Mary) played the harlot with carpenters.” (Sanhedrin 106a)
[color=0000CC]*[/color] “Christians who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.” (Rosh Hashanah 17a)

(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/talhate.jpg)


[color=FF6600]JUDAISM’S REIGN OF GLAMOUR IS COMING TO AN END![/color]

[color=009900]I WAS RAISED AS A JEW.[/color]Christendom has fawned all over the Jews for the last 60 years. But all of this is now coming to an end.
Christians are waking up to the fact that Judaism and the Jews are haters of Jesus Christ, Christianity, and fervent Christians who preach the Gospel.

Do you wish to get a Talmudic Jew raving mad?

[color=FF0000]Simply Tell That Jew That If He Does Not Accept Jesus Christ As His Lord & Saviour
He Is Going To Suffer In Hell![/color]
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on March 08, 2018, 02:08:06 PM
Satanic Verses Of The Jewish Talmud (http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=156)
Talmud Articles (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=319), Judaism Articles (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=353), Why I Left Judaism (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=160), Satanic Verses Of The Jewish Talmud (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=139), Jews Are NOT The "Chosen People" (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=53), Judaism's Strange Gods (http://www.realjewnews.com/?cat=15)

(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/talhate.jpg)
SATANIC VERSES OF THE JEWISH TALMUD
By Brother Nathanael Kapner, Copyright 2008-2011
(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/header2.jpg)
Articles May Be Reproduced Only With Authorship of Br Nathanael Kapner
& Link To Real Jew News (SM) (http://www.realjewnews.com/)


Please Help Support This Site!

(http://www.brovids.com/images/CP_EN_GR_A_001.gif) (https://co.clickandpledge.com/?wid=40066)


Or Send Your Contribution To:
Brother Nathanael Kapner; PO Box 547; Priest River ID 83856
E-mail: bronathanael@yahoo.com

Sources: The Talmud, Soncino Press, Hebrew-English; The Truth About The Talmud, Michael Hoffman Here (http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html); Jewish History-Jewish Religion, Israel ShahakHere (http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jewhis1.htm); The Plot Against Christianity, Elizabeth DillingHere (http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/dcontents.html)

THE JEWISH TALMUD is “Holy Writ” for the Jews.


The Talmud supercedes the Old Testament in authority for the Jews. And the Talmud is the most racist, hate-mongering , blasphemous book the world has ever known.
The Talmud was written in Hebrewbetween the 3rd & 6th Centuries as a codification of the so-called Oral Law that the Jewish rabbis claim was handed down from Moses.
But the Messiah Jesus censored the “Oral Law” when He said, “By the traditions of your elders you make void the Word of God.” (St Matthew 15).
The English translation of the Talmud has been watered down so as to conceal from the Gentiles the “satanic verses” contained in the original Hebrew.
The “Satanic Verses” of the Talmud can be classified into 3 categories:
1) Jewish Supremacy.
2) Hatred Towards The “Goys” (Gentiles).
3) Blasphemies Against Jesus Christ, The Virgin Mary, & All Christians.

(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/sv1a.jpg)

SATANIC VERSES OF THE TALMUD’S
“JEWISH SUPREMACY”

* “If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)
* “If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a)
* “If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* “Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)
* “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)
* “Girls born of the ‘goyim’ are in a state of ‘niddah’ (menstrual uncleanness!) from birth.” (Abodah Zarah 36b)

(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/sv2.jpg)

SATANIC VERSES OF THE TALMUD’S
HATRED TOWARDS THE GENTILES

* “The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)
* “If you eat with a ‘goy’ it is the same as eating with a dog.” (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)
* “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)
* “Sexual intercourse between the ‘goyim’ is like intercourse between animals.” (Sanhedrin 74b)
* “When it comes to a Gentile in peace times, one may harm him indirectly, for instance, by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice.” (Shulkan Arukh, Yoreh De ‘ah, 158, Hebrew Edition only)

(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/sv3.jpg)

SATANIC VERSES OF THE TALMUD’S
BLASPHEMIES AGAINST JESUS CHRIST, THE VIRGIN MARY,
& ALL CHRISTIANS

* “‘Yashu’ (derogatory for ‘Jesus’) is in Hell being boiled in hot excrement.” (Gittin 57a)
[’Yashu’ is an acronym for the Jewish curse, ‘May his (Jesus) name be wiped out forevermore.’]
* Yashu (Jesus) was sexually immoral and worshipped a brick.” (Sanhedrin 107b)
* “Yashu (Jesus) was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness and refused to repent.” (Sotah 47a)
* “Miriam the hairdresser had sex with many men.” (Shabbath 104b, Hebrew Edition only)
* “She who was the descendant of princes and governors (the virgin Mary) played the harlot with carpenters.” (Sanhedrin 106a)
* “Christians who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.” (Rosh Hashanah 17a)

(http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/talhate.jpg)


JUDAISM’S REIGN OF GLAMOUR IS COMING TO AN END!

I WAS RAISED AS A JEW.Christendom has fawned all over the Jews for the last 60 years. But all of this is now coming to an end.
Christians are waking up to the fact that Judaism and the Jews are haters of Jesus Christ, Christianity, and fervent Christians who preach the Gospel.

Do you wish to get a Talmudic Jew raving mad?

Simply Tell That Jew That If He Does Not Accept Jesus Christ As His Lord & Saviour
He Is Going To Suffer In Hell!
that's just one ignoramus speaking
Not all Jews believe the same thing anymore than all Catholics or any other group
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 09, 2018, 02:28:10 AM
Yes! Try telling that that Poche. He pretends he doesn't understand that the two are in opposition to each other - the Torah the word of God, the Talmud that of the devil. Poche is just here to stir the pot.
If the Torah is the Word of God and the Talmud is the opinions of various rabbis then it appears to me that the Torah would be more the authority than the Talmud.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Nadir on March 09, 2018, 04:03:59 AM
If the Torah is the Word of God and the Talmud is the opinions of various rabbis then it appears to me that the Torah would be more the authority than the Talmud.
Yes, you are right. That is correct. But the Jews do not give more authority to the Torah. They give more authority to the Talmud.
.
  
The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book (actually a collection of books). Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."  http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html (http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html)
. 
You should read “The Talmud Unmasked, The Secret Rabbinical Teaching Concerning Christians,” by Rev. I. B. Pranaitis, Roman Catholic Priest; Master of Theology and Professor of the Hebrew Language at the Imperial Ecclesiastical Academy of the Roman Catholic Church in Old St. Petersburg.
[Imprimatur: 1892] http://www.talmudunmasked.com/ (http://www.talmudunmasked.com/)
 
Also you should take seriously what Jesus has to say about the Pharisees and their traditions, which in His time was the oral Talmud. (There was no hard copy till around the time the Holy Bible was canonised.) Yes, tSt Paul was one of them, until he converted and repented. The Talmud is the book of the Pharisees, called in scripture the traditions of men.
 
If you read the 23rd Chapter of St Matthew’s Gospel you will hear what Jesus Himself says about the traditions of the Pharisees, as illustrated in the Talmud.
 
“Christ admonishes the people to follow the good doctrine, not the bad example of the scribes and Pharisees. He warns his disciples not to imitate their ambition and denounces divers woes against them for their hypocrisy and blindness.
 
[1] Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, [2] Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. [3] All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy and insupportable burdens, and lay them on men's shoulders; but with a finger of their own they will not move them. [5] And all their works they do for to be seen of men. For they make their phylacteries broad, and enlarge their fringes.
 
[6] And they love the first places at feasts, and the first chairs in the synagogues, [7] And salutations in the market place, and to be called by men, Rabbi. [8] But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master; and all you are brethren. [9] And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven. [10] Neither be ye called masters; for one is your master, Christ. [11] He that is the greatest among you shall be your servant. [12] And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled: and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
 
[13] But woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men, for you yourselves do not enter in; and those that are going in, you suffer not to enter. [14] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: because you devour the houses of widows, praying long prayers. For this you shall receive the greater judgment. [15] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte; and when he is made, you make him the child of hell twofold more than yourselves.
 
[16] Woe to you blind guides, that say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but he that shall swear by the gold of the temple, is a debtor. [17] Ye foolish and blind; for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? [18] And whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gift that is upon it, is a debtor. [19] Ye blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? [20] He therefore that sweareth by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things that are upon it:
 
[21] And whosoever shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth in it: [22] And he that sweareth by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. [23] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you tithe mint, and anise, and cummin, and have left the weightier things of the law; judgment, and mercy, and faith. These things you ought to have done, and not to leave those undone. [24] Blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel. [25] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you make clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but within you are full of rapine and uncleanness.
 
[26] Thou blind Pharisee, first make clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, that the outside may become clean. [27] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you are like to whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear to men beautiful, but within are full of dead men's bones, and of all filthiness. [28] So you also outwardly indeed appear to men just; but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. [29] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; that build the sepulchres of the prophets, and adorn the monuments of the just, [30] And say: If we had been in the days of our Fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
 
[31] Wherefore you are witnesses against yourselves, that you are the sons of them that killed the prophets. [32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. [33] You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? [34] Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: [35] That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.
 
[36] Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. [37] Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? [38] Behold, your house shall be left to you, desolate. [39] For I say to you, you shall not see me henceforth till you say: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 
 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 09, 2018, 04:07:02 AM
Yes, you are right. That is correct. But the Jews do not give more authority to the Torah. They give more authority to the Talmud.
.
 
The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book (actually a collection of books). Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."  http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html (http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html)
.
You should read “The Talmud Unmasked, The Secret Rabbinical Teaching Concerning Christians,” by Rev. I. B. Pranaitis, Roman Catholic Priest; Master of Theology and Professor of the Hebrew Language at the Imperial Ecclesiastical Academy of the Roman Catholic Church in Old St. Petersburg.
[Imprimatur: 1892] http://www.talmudunmasked.com/ (http://www.talmudunmasked.com/)
 
Also you should take seriously what Jesus has to say about the Pharisees and their traditions, which in His time was the oral Talmud. (There was no hard copy till around the time the Holy Bible was canonised.) Yes, tSt Paul was one of them, until he converted and repented. The Talmud is the book of the Pharisees, called in scripture the traditions of men.
 
If you read the 23rd Chapter of St Matthew’s Gospel you will hear what Jesus Himself says about the traditions of the Pharisees, as illustrated in the Talmud.
 
“Christ admonishes the people to follow the good doctrine, not the bad example of the scribes and Pharisees. He warns his disciples not to imitate their ambition and denounces divers woes against them for their hypocrisy and blindness.
 
[1] Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, [2] Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. [3] All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy and insupportable burdens, and lay them on men's shoulders; but with a finger of their own they will not move them. [5] And all their works they do for to be seen of men. For they make their phylacteries broad, and enlarge their fringes.
 
[6] And they love the first places at feasts, and the first chairs in the synagogues, [7] And salutations in the market place, and to be called by men, Rabbi. [8] But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master; and all you are brethren. [9] And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven. [10] Neither be ye called masters; for one is your master, Christ. [11] He that is the greatest among you shall be your servant. [12] And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled: and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
 
[13] But woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men, for you yourselves do not enter in; and those that are going in, you suffer not to enter. [14] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: because you devour the houses of widows, praying long prayers. For this you shall receive the greater judgment. [15] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte; and when he is made, you make him the child of hell twofold more than yourselves.
 
[16] Woe to you blind guides, that say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but he that shall swear by the gold of the temple, is a debtor. [17] Ye foolish and blind; for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? [18] And whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gift that is upon it, is a debtor. [19] Ye blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? [20] He therefore that sweareth by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things that are upon it:
 
[21] And whosoever shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth in it: [22] And he that sweareth by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. [23] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you tithe mint, and anise, and cummin, and have left the weightier things of the law; judgment, and mercy, and faith. These things you ought to have done, and not to leave those undone. [24] Blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel. [25] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you make clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but within you are full of rapine and uncleanness.
 
[26] Thou blind Pharisee, first make clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, that the outside may become clean. [27] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you are like to whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear to men beautiful, but within are full of dead men's bones, and of all filthiness. [28] So you also outwardly indeed appear to men just; but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. [29] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; that build the sepulchres of the prophets, and adorn the monuments of the just, [30] And say: If we had been in the days of our Fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
 
[31] Wherefore you are witnesses against yourselves, that you are the sons of them that killed the prophets. [32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. [33] You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? [34] Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: [35] That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.
 
[36] Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. [37] Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? [38] Behold, your house shall be left to you, desolate. [39] For I say to you, you shall not see me henceforth till you say: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 
 
I think I would rather focus on the Gospels.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 10, 2018, 12:18:13 AM
that's just one ignoramus speaking
Not all Jews believe the same thing anymore than all Catholics or any other group
That so called "ignoramus" is a convert from Judaism to Christianity.  So, I think he might know a little bit more about it, than you do.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1auf5iV_g8
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 10, 2018, 12:24:02 AM
He has One Hundred and Thirty Two Thousand Subscribers on YouTube by the way.  How many have you got?
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 10, 2018, 12:28:07 AM
I think I would rather focus on the Gospels.
"It seems like many Jews like to falsely blame Catholics for being anti-Semetic (ie.. books such as "Hitler's Pope" and "Popes against the Jews") yet the Jewish Talmud has an extremely derogatory and ungodly attitude towards Christians. The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book and its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament. While Christians follow the Ten Commandments, the Jews follow the 613 Commandments of the Talmud. Eight Catholic Popes condemned the Talmud. Martin Luther ordered it burned. Pope Clement VIII declared: "The impious Talmudic, Cabalistic and other wicked books of the Jews are hereby entirely condemned and they must always remain condemned and prohibited and this law must be perpetually observed". Why was the Talmud the focus of so much condemnation? Because the Talmud is even more anti-Christian than the anti-Semitism that Catholics are constantly accused of (falsely I might add)? The Talmud treats Gentiles (the "Goyim") as being no better than animals. Let me site a few quotes from the various books of the Talmud:"
http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage_print.asp?number=338247&language=en
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 10, 2018, 12:44:29 AM
.
Furthermore, there are at least two (maybe 3) versions of the Talmud.
.
If you go to your public library and look for their copy of the Talmud, a set of books like an encyclopedia, what you will find is the version for public view, and it might not contain the most egregious language that blasphemes Our Lord and His Church.
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The most severe version is kept under wraps and only a select few are permitted to read it. 
The secrecy they keep about their horrific texts is quite similar to the secrecy surrounding Freemasonic literature.
.
Some say that Freemasonry is an outgrowth of Talmudic Judaism.
You can see for yourself that anyone going to seek acceptance as a first level Mason is screened on this point.
The Mason hearing your interview tells you that there is nothing Jewish about Freemasonry.
He says that those who say Freemasonry came from Jewish roots are not to be believed.
He watches your reaction to this proposition, and if you show any revulsion or incredulity, you won't be approved.
.
That's how they keep their membership from thinking that way.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 10, 2018, 02:32:32 AM
Yes, you are right. That is correct. But the Jews do not give more authority to the Torah. They give more authority to the Talmud.
.
 
The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book (actually a collection of books). Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."  http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html (http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html)
.
You should read “The Talmud Unmasked, The Secret Rabbinical Teaching Concerning Christians,” by Rev. I. B. Pranaitis, Roman Catholic Priest; Master of Theology and Professor of the Hebrew Language at the Imperial Ecclesiastical Academy of the Roman Catholic Church in Old St. Petersburg.
[Imprimatur: 1892] http://www.talmudunmasked.com/ (http://www.talmudunmasked.com/)
 
Also you should take seriously what Jesus has to say about the Pharisees and their traditions, which in His time was the oral Talmud. (There was no hard copy till around the time the Holy Bible was canonised.) Yes, tSt Paul was one of them, until he converted and repented. The Talmud is the book of the Pharisees, called in scripture the traditions of men.
 
If you read the 23rd Chapter of St Matthew’s Gospel you will hear what Jesus Himself says about the traditions of the Pharisees, as illustrated in the Talmud.
 
“Christ admonishes the people to follow the good doctrine, not the bad example of the scribes and Pharisees. He warns his disciples not to imitate their ambition and denounces divers woes against them for their hypocrisy and blindness.
 
[1] Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, [2] Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. [3] All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy and insupportable burdens, and lay them on men's shoulders; but with a finger of their own they will not move them. [5] And all their works they do for to be seen of men. For they make their phylacteries broad, and enlarge their fringes.
 
[6] And they love the first places at feasts, and the first chairs in the synagogues, [7] And salutations in the market place, and to be called by men, Rabbi. [8] But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master; and all you are brethren. [9] And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven. [10] Neither be ye called masters; for one is your master, Christ. [11] He that is the greatest among you shall be your servant. [12] And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled: and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
 
[13] But woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men, for you yourselves do not enter in; and those that are going in, you suffer not to enter. [14] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: because you devour the houses of widows, praying long prayers. For this you shall receive the greater judgment. [15] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte; and when he is made, you make him the child of hell twofold more than yourselves.
 
[16] Woe to you blind guides, that say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but he that shall swear by the gold of the temple, is a debtor. [17] Ye foolish and blind; for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? [18] And whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gift that is upon it, is a debtor. [19] Ye blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? [20] He therefore that sweareth by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things that are upon it:
 
[21] And whosoever shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth in it: [22] And he that sweareth by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. [23] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you tithe mint, and anise, and cummin, and have left the weightier things of the law; judgment, and mercy, and faith. These things you ought to have done, and not to leave those undone. [24] Blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel. [25] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you make clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but within you are full of rapine and uncleanness.
 
[26] Thou blind Pharisee, first make clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, that the outside may become clean. [27] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you are like to whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear to men beautiful, but within are full of dead men's bones, and of all filthiness. [28] So you also outwardly indeed appear to men just; but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. [29] Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; that build the sepulchres of the prophets, and adorn the monuments of the just, [30] And say: If we had been in the days of our Fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
 
[31] Wherefore you are witnesses against yourselves, that you are the sons of them that killed the prophets. [32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. [33] You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? [34] Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: [35] That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.
 
[36] Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. [37] Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? [38] Behold, your house shall be left to you, desolate. [39] For I say to you, you shall not see me henceforth till you say: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 
 
That doesn't make sense. If the Torah is teh word of God, then the rabbinical opinions (aka Talmud) would have to be subservient to that word. 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 10, 2018, 04:18:47 AM
That doesn't make sense. If the Torah is teh word of God, then the rabbinical opinions (aka Talmud) would have to be subservient to that word.
You're thinking like a Catholic (Catechism vs Bible).  Jews are different, but not just different, probably the polar opposite of Catholics.  I don't think it's just another false religion;  I think it is uniquely evil.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Nadir on March 10, 2018, 04:28:31 AM
That doesn't make sense. 
Of course it doesn't make sense! Why should it make sense? 

Quote
If the Torah is teh word of God?
Of course the Torah is the word of God.

Quote
the rabbinical opinions (aka Talmud) would have to be subservient to that word.
For the Jews the Talmud is not subservient to the word of God.

We are discussing here the Jews. You assume that the Jews are faithful to the word of God. They are not faithful to to His Word but absolutely opposed to it.

Do you not recall Gospel of John Chapter 8 

[31] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=31-#x) Then Jesus said to those Jews, who believed him: If you continue in my word, you shall be my disciples indeed. [32] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=32-#x) And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

But to those in whom His word had no place:

[37] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=37-#x) I know that you are the children of Abraham: but you seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. [38] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=38-#x) I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do the things that you have seen with your father. [39] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=39-#x) They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. [40] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=40-#x) But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.
[41] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=41-#x) You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. [42] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=42-#x) Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: [43] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=43-#x) Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. [44] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=44-#x) You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. [45] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=45-#x) But if I say the truth, you believe me not.
[46] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=46-#x) Which of you shall convict me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me? [47] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=47-#x) He that is of God, heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God. [48] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=48-#x) The Jews therefore answered, and said to him: Do not we say well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? [49] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=49-#x) Jesus answered: I have not a devil: but I honour my Father, and you have dishonoured me.[50] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=50-#x) But I seek not my own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. [51] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=51-#x) Amen, amen I say to you: If any man keep my word, he shall not see death for ever. 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on March 10, 2018, 01:28:22 PM
That so called "ignoramus" is a convert from Judaism to Christianity.  So, I think he might know a little bit more about it, than you do.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1auf5iV_g8
nice video.. love the snow
But I stand by my point that not all Jews think alike.. not hard to do since a child can understand that one
In any case, as the late Marvin Gaye said: Only love can conquer hate
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 11, 2018, 04:30:07 AM
that's just one ignoramus speaking
Not all Jews believe the same thing anymore than all Catholics or any other group
If this has been watered down then it stands to reason that most Jews don't really believe this nonsense. I think that this represents the thinking of only a few who are part of the lunatic fringe.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 11, 2018, 09:06:43 AM
If this has been watered down then it stands to reason that most Jews don't really believe this nonsense. I think that this represents the thinking of only a few who are part of the lunatic fringe.
No, it's the orthodox Jews who believe in The Talmud.  As I understand it, the majority of Jews are basically materialistic;  they don't believe much in the supernatural or are sort of agnostic about it.  Apparently, Zionism (nationalistic ideology) and Marxism (internationalistic ideology) grew out of that, when Jews lost their faith, when Napoleon tore down the ghetto wall and brought Jews The Enlightenment.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 11, 2018, 09:09:47 AM
nice video.. love the snow
But I stand by my point that not all Jews think alike.. not hard to do since a child can understand that one
In any case, as the late Marvin Gaye said: Only love can conquer hate
Not all Catholics think alike.  Yet, I hope you realize there is a profound difference between Catholics and everyone else.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 11, 2018, 09:11:12 AM
It isn't all or nothing;  it is a matter of degrees.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 11, 2018, 09:12:56 AM
If we are truly "all the same," then Salvation is meaningless and Bruce Jenner really is a woman now.   ::)
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on March 15, 2018, 01:12:21 PM
Not all Catholics think alike.  Yet, I hope you realize there is a profound difference between Catholics and everyone else.  
of course, but all Cathollics are far from being alike
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 15, 2018, 11:15:27 PM
of course, but all Cathollics are far from being alike
What do you mean?  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 16, 2018, 02:36:30 AM
No, it's the orthodox Jews who believe in The Talmud.  As I understand it, the majority of Jews are basically materialistic;  they don't believe much in the supernatural or are sort of agnostic about it.  Apparently, Zionism (nationalistic ideology) and Marxism (internationalistic ideology) grew out of that, when Jews lost their faith, when Napoleon tore down the ghetto wall and brought Jews The Enlightenment.  
The Orthodox Jews are not the only ones around. It stands to reason that if the torah is the Word of God and the Talmud represents the opinions of various scholars then it would stand to reason that the Word of God would trump the opinion of the scholars in question. It is the same with the modernist theologian. If his studies brings him to a conclusion that contradicts a point of the Creed of the scriptures then something is wrong with his studies.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 17, 2018, 12:43:18 AM
The Orthodox Jews are not the only ones around. It stands to reason that if the torah is the Word of God and the Talmud represents the opinions of various scholars then it would stand to reason that the Word of God would trump the opinion of the scholars in question. It is the same with the modernist theologian. If his studies brings him to a conclusion that contradicts a point of the Creed of the scriptures then something is wrong with his studies.  
I would of thought the same thing, I think, because I was raised in a Christian tradition, not a Jewish one.  Converts to Judaism have told me the same thing.  E. Michael Jones says that.  Kapner says it and he's a convert from Judaism.  And it shows in Jewish Culture.  Christian Culture is much more in harmony with The Torah, then Judaism seems to be.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 17, 2018, 12:48:01 AM
Popes have ordered copies of The Talmud burned and launched crusades for the conversion of Jews, including kids, because it was seen as an act of Mercy to free them from bondage, according to E. Michael Jones, in his book "The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit," which I read, but he does talk about that in some of his interviews about the book, which are on youtube (until "google idf" decides to take them down).  

And there's plenty of Church Fathers who have condemned The Talmud.  St. John Chrysostom is one of the most famous.  Protestants have done it too.  Luther is one of the most famous.  

Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: Catman on March 17, 2018, 05:53:37 AM
As Our Lord was hanging on the cross He asked the Father to forgive those who put Him there. I don’t recall Our Lord excluding the Jews. 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on March 17, 2018, 01:08:50 PM
What do you mean?  
probably best example: some "Catholics" vote Democrat even though the Church teaches that promoting abortion is a mortal sin. But then, priests rarely if ever PREACH that, so...
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 17, 2018, 02:27:18 PM
As Our Lord was hanging on the cross He asked the Father to forgive those who put Him there. I don’t recall Our Lord excluding the Jews.
I thought that was a reference to The Romans, but I suppose it could apply to the high priests as well.  Still, there is the curse, "And the whole people answering, said:  His blood be upon us and our children."  Matthew 27:25 

Grace is a "freely" given, but it can be rejected.
  
""Jerome: Pilate took water in accordance with that, “I Will wash my hands in innocency,” [Ps 26:6] in a manner testifying and saying, I indeed have sought to deliver this innocent man, but since a tumult is rising, and the charge of treason to Caesar is urged against me, I am innocent of the blood of this just man. The judge then who is thus compelled to give sentence against the Lord, does not convict the accused, but the accusers, pronouncing innocent Him who is to be crucified.  “See ye to it,” as though be had said, I am the law’s minister, it is your voice that has shed this blood. Then answered all the people and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.” This imprecation rests at the present day upon the Jews, the Lord’s blood is not removed from them."

http://dhspriory.org/thomas/english/CAMatthew.htm#27
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 17, 2018, 02:39:09 PM
"34. Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. 35. And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. 36. And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, 37. And saying, If you be the king of the Jews, save yourself."   Luke 23:34-37


"CHRYS. Because the Lord had said, Pray for them that persecute you, this likewise He did, when He ascended the cross, as it follows, Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them, not that He was not able Himself to pardon them, but that He might teach us to pray for our persecutors, not only in word, but in deed also. But He says, Forgive them, if they should repent. For He is gracious to the penitent, if they are willing after so great wickedness to wash away their guilt by faith.


BEDE; For must we imagine here that He prayed in vain, but that in those who believed after His passion He obtained the fruit of His prayers? It must be remarked, however, that He prayed not for those who chose rather to crucify, than to confess Him whom they knew to be the Son of God, but for such as were ignorant what they did, having a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge, as He adds, For they know not what they do.


GREEK EX. But for those who after the crucifixion remain in unbelief, no one can suppose that they are excused by ignorance, because of the notable miracles that with aloud voice proclaimed Him to be the Son of God."

http://dhspriory.org/thomas/CALuke.htm#23
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 17, 2018, 02:51:37 PM
probably best example: some "Catholics" vote Democrat even though the Church teaches that promoting abortion is a mortal sin. But then, priests rarely if ever PREACH that, so...
O.k., but lots of Catholics vote Democrat not because they support Abortion, but because they support Labor Unions, which provide decent wages for tradesmen, so that they can support families.  Furthermore, despite the rhetoric of the republican party, it is hard to believe, given the actions of their appointees to the supreme court, that they are truly anti-abortion.  Since Reagan, according to Pat Buchanan, who was a member of The Reagan Administration and a Catholic who attends a latin mass, The Republican Party has been dominated by Neo-Conservatives, which are basically pro-war liberals.  

In any case, that's politics.  What really matters is the rejection or acceptance of Christ.  Catholics accept Christ and call Him Lord and Savior;  Jews reject Christ and call Him a bastard and the son of a whore, who burns in excrement for all eternity.  Catholics love Christ, while Jews hate him.  

Scour the world for an exception to this if you want to, but so what if you find one?  Who cares?  You might as well say, some apple trees don't bear apples.  O.k, but so what!  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on March 22, 2018, 04:01:45 PM
O.k., but lots of Catholics vote Democrat not because they support Abortion, but because they support Labor Unions, which provide decent wages for tradesmen, so that they can support families.  Furthermore, despite the rhetoric of the republican party, it is hard to believe, given the actions of their appointees to the supreme court, that they are truly anti-abortion.  Since Reagan, according to Pat Buchanan, who was a member of The Reagan Administration and a Catholic who attends a latin mass, The Republican Party has been dominated by Neo-Conservatives, which are basically pro-war liberals.  

In any case, that's politics.  What really matters is the rejection or acceptance of Christ.  Catholics accept Christ and call Him Lord and Savior;  Jews reject Christ and call Him a bastard and the son of a whore, who burns in excrement for all eternity.  Catholics love Christ, while Jews hate him.  

Scour the world for an exception to this if you want to, but so what if you find one?  Who cares?  You might as well say, some apple trees don't bear apples.  O.k, but so what!  
I don't think all Jews hate Jesus
they may hate some of his followers... and sometimes u can't blame them much
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 23, 2018, 03:32:44 AM
I don't think all Jews hate Jesus
they may hate some of his followers... and sometimes u can't blame them much
The point is, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO!  (i can't help it if some jews are "lukewarm") 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 24, 2018, 03:46:05 AM
The point is, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO!  (i can't help it if some jews are "lukewarm")
If you are referring to obscure points in the Talmud that almost nobody reads then I think you are misrepresenting the Jewish people.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: ServusDei347 on March 24, 2018, 12:23:18 PM
All I have to say is that we have a dogmatic teaching from the Council of Florence

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, from the Bull Contata Domino, February 4th, 1441.

"It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt 25,41 (http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/gor.htm#bci)), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/dw3.htm
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: King Wenceslas on March 24, 2018, 05:06:28 PM
Behind every great social movement in the western world since 1945 that has corrupted the West are the Jews.

It has now gone so far that a certain debased race that was freed by the Jews are now debasing young formally Christian girls:

https://www.vdare.com/posts/why-are-dance-classes-teaching-7-year-old-white-girls-to-twerk

Fire, blood, and tears. It is the only way out of this or we become cannibals within 30 years.

But alas, alas the pagans have the tanks, machine guns, armored personnel carriers, and, yes, the hydrogen bombs. The police are becoming militarized and set upon social protest like goons. We can only offer up our prayers and sacrifices to almighty God to end this before it gets too bad.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 25, 2018, 03:03:24 AM
All I have to say is that we have a dogmatic teaching from the Council of Florence

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, from the Bull Contata Domino, February 4th, 1441.

"It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt 25,41 (http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/gor.htm#bci)), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/dw3.htm
You realize of course that his contradicts the tradition of the Church. The catachumens of the ancient Church who were martyred for the Faith have been recognized as saints from antiquity.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 26, 2018, 12:58:11 AM
You realize of course that his contradicts the tradition of the Church. The catachumens of the ancient Church who were martyred for the Faith have been recognized as saints from antiquity.  
You totally missed his point.   ::)
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 26, 2018, 12:58:37 AM
If you are referring to obscure points in the Talmud that almost nobody reads then I think you are misrepresenting the Jewish people.  
What do you know about it?  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on March 26, 2018, 01:30:44 PM
The point is, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO!  (i can't help it if some jews are "lukewarm")
u mean Jews are supposed to hate Catholics as much as some "Catholics" here hate THEM?
::) 
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: 1st Mansion Tenant on March 26, 2018, 02:52:01 PM
Behind every great social movement in the western world since 1945 that has corrupted the West are the Jews.

It has now gone so far that a certain debased race that was freed by the Jews are now debasing young formally Christian girls:

https://www.vdare.com/posts/why-are-dance-classes-teaching-7-year-old-white-girls-to-twerk

Ok, that video was appalling. The parents should be ashamed- and possibly charged with child abuse or pandering, or something. Puting your child on stage dance like that before an audience that probably attracts a good number of pedophiles is disgusting. You should attach a warning to the link or remove it, because it is something that is going to be hard to un-see.  
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: ServusDei347 on March 27, 2018, 11:17:50 AM
You realize of course that his contradicts the tradition of the Church. The catachumens of the ancient Church who were martyred for the Faith have been recognized as saints 
Tradition and Scripture are supposed to be understood as the church teaches it. The magesterium and Dogmatic teachings of the church are our proximate rules of faith. Therefore we go by the Dogmas and Magesterial teachings of the church first. Which all come from popes. And what the church has always taught, Is that outside the church, there is no salvation. Period. No Jews can be saved. Period. Unless they convert to Catholicism. But then they are no longer Jews, they are Catholics. So can a Jew be saved? No. Can a Catholic be saved? Yes.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: King Wenceslas on March 27, 2018, 02:01:40 PM
As I said above:


Quote
Behind every great social movement in the western world since 1945 that has corrupted the West are the Jews.

http://dailycaller.com/2018/03/26/jared-kushners-brother-march-for-our-lives/

Quote
White House adviser Jared Kushner’s (a Jew) brother attended the pro-gun control event March For Our Lives Saturday and donated $50,000 to the anti-gun movement.

Josh Kushner (a Jew), the brother-in-law to Ivanka Trump (formerly a nominal Christian now professed Jew), attended Saturday’s event in Washington, D.C., after reportedly donating $50,000 to the March for Our Lives organization in early March, WLTX 19 reported (http://www.wltx.com/article/news/nation-now/jared-kushners-brother-attends-march-for-our-lives-reportedly-gives-50000-to-cause/465-9decc40e-379c-4674-a0b6-5d7b2e09f30e).


Kushner attended the march with his girlfriend, supermodel Karlie Kloss, and posted photos of the event on his Instagram page (https://www.instagram.com/joshuakushner/?utm_source=ig_embed&action=profilevisit). In one of the photos Kushner posted, Kloss was holding a sign that said, “Load minds not guns.”


In a Christian State the Jews were always repressed and put into ghettos. Now they make up 40% of all billionaires in the USA and they use the $ to destroy.

Just think in the end the Gentiles apostatize and the Jews convert to the true faith. Go figure.

Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: klasG4e on March 27, 2018, 02:29:34 PM
The Jewish religion is where the Catholic religion originated, so I wish people would stop bashing the Jews.. I just totally don't get it. So some Jews love money too much. So do some "Christians" so called.

The Jews have just as much a chance of accepting Jesus as anyone else. If they don't they will go to Hell. So if anything we should pity them a little more and evangelize them..

better to evangelize than to hate .. right?

Ha, ha!  Try to imagine seeing this on JewInfo.whatever:

The Jewish religion is where the Catholic religion originated, so I wish people would stop bashing the Catholics. I just totally don't get it. So some Catholics love money too much. So do some "Jews" so called.

The Catholics have just as much a chance of accepting the Sacred Six Million Gas Chamber Myth as anyone else. If they don't they may go to prison, or at the very least be be ridiculed.  So if anything we should pity them a little more and evangelize them..

better to evangelize than to hate .. right?
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on March 27, 2018, 04:44:23 PM
As I said above:


http://dailycaller.com/2018/03/26/jared-kushners-brother-march-for-our-lives/

In a Christian State the Jews were always repressed and put into ghettos. Now they make up 40% of all billionaires in the USA and they use the $ to destroy.

Just think in the end the Gentiles apostatize and the Jews convert to the true faith. Go figure.

sounds like a stereotype to me, Jews being all wealthy
but then again, they don't have Jesus to make them reticent or whatever... I mean, Jesus is the narrow way, not the IWillDoWhateverILike way  so it kind of stands to reason they wouldn't care about such things as "What good does it do to gain the whole world but lose your soul" as Jesus said
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: klasG4e on March 27, 2018, 07:14:41 PM
 I wish people would stop bashing the Jews..
I thought we were supposed to imitate Christ or are we supposed to pretend that we are holier than Christ.  Please check out the New Testament on some of our Lord's choice bashings. 

St. Stephen was an imitator of our Christ, but he would be branded by some today as mean spirited. (Acts 7:51)

In the O.T. Moses and various other saints were Jew bashers as well.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 27, 2018, 11:21:50 PM
I thought we were supposed to imitate Christ or are we supposed to pretend that we are holier than Christ.  Please check out the New Testament on some of our Lord's choice bashings.  

St. Stephen was an imitator of our Christ, but he would be branded by some today as mean spirited. (Acts 7:51)

In the O.T. Moses and various other saints were Jew bashers as well.
The chief bashing that Jesus did in relation to the Jews didn't just apply to the Jews themselves. It also applies to us. There are traps that the devil sets for us as we try to live the will of God on our way to holiness. I recommend that we make a study of the writings of St John of the Cross and St Teresa of Avila.    
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: graceseeker on March 28, 2018, 03:31:33 PM
I thought we were supposed to imitate Christ or are we supposed to pretend that we are holier than Christ.  Please check out the New Testament on some of our Lord's choice bashings.  

St. Stephen was an imitator of our Christ, but he would be branded by some today as mean spirited. (Acts 7:51)

In the O.T. Moses and various other saints were Jew bashers as well.
how bogus. I have read all there is to read in the Word about Moses and he did not bash the Jews. He was one. He only bashed those who defied God.. which is everyone these days Jew or o/wise.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: klasG4e on March 28, 2018, 07:22:44 PM
how bogus. I have read all there is to read in the Word about Moses and he did not bash the Jews. He was one. He only bashed those who defied God.. which is everyone these days Jew or o/wise.
You really contradict yourself.  In your Opening Post you state, " I wish people would stop bashing the Jews."  Here, you say that Moses did not bash the Jews, just those who defied God.  Well, guess what -- the people that Moses led in the desert for 40 years were Jews and guess what -- those Jews defied God in spades, over and over again.

Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: klasG4e on March 28, 2018, 07:58:47 PM
The chief bashing that Jesus did in relation to the Jews didn't just apply to the Jews themselves.
Of course not!  My point is that Jesus did bash the Jews and we should not try to pretend that he didn't, nor need we apologize for bashing the Jews (in imitation of Christ) whose defining and uniting characteristic is their being anti-Christ.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: poche on March 28, 2018, 11:13:01 PM
Of course not!  My point is that Jesus did bash the Jews and we should not try to pretend that he didn't, nor need we apologize for bashing the Jews (in imitation of Christ) whose defining and uniting characteristic is their being anti-Christ.
The bashing also applies to you and me as well.
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 30, 2018, 03:57:48 AM
u mean Jews are supposed to hate Catholics as much as some "Catholics" here hate THEM?
::)
Hate doesn't = bad.  There are different kinds of hate, just like there are different kinds of love. 

It's like honesty.  If you have to lie to the terrorists, to prevent them from blowing up the chapel, you do it, you lie.  O.k., to do anything else would be overly-scrupulous, which is usually the error people like you try to promote, to advance your bleeding heart liberal agenda.    
Title: Re: In defense of the Jews (at least some)
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 30, 2018, 04:15:30 AM
Ok, that video was appalling. The parents should be ashamed- and possibly charged with child abuse or pandering, or something. Puting your child on stage dance like that before an audience that probably attracts a good number of pedophiles is disgusting. You should attach a warning to the link or remove it, because it is something that is going to be hard to un-see.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqg0xeC3LQ