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Author Topic: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men  (Read 2386 times)

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Online Pax Vobis

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Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2018, 04:57:53 PM »
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    • A prenup would cover all of this.  You don't see rich and famous people in court much, do you, for family reasons?  Because their spouses know that if they try to play games with the court system then they get nothing.  So, fine, accuse me of abuse - take the children through lies.  You're right, there's nothing I can do stop it (in the short term) but if a spouse were to take that drastic action and they were cut off from the will, from a steady income, from a car, etc. they would live a painful life.  Hopefully this threat, or the consequences afterwards, would wake them up.

    A prenup is not going to prevent marital discord, or resentment, or divorce, but it can bring order and justice to an otherwise disordered and unjust legal system.  Your real-life examples continue to prove that i'd rather have a prenup than not have one.  At least I would have some defense in a 'worst case' scenario.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #16 on: June 26, 2018, 04:59:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on June 26, 2018, 04:41:52 PM
    An accusation of spousal abuse (which Ladislaus never mentioned) might put the husband in jail for a few nights but unless it is proven in a court of law, which would involve witnesses and testimony, then the prenup would still be in force.  And any false accusations would also include a prenup penalty.

    Unless there is proof of abuse, then the Church would not approve of such a separation so the immoral spouse would be in violation of the prenup.  No kids, very little $ - leave if you want, good luck.

    Thirdly, the Church allows separation for violence/adultery, but divorce is only allowed for adultery (per Scripture).

    Yes, a prenup would still help.  It would cover all of these issues, with appropriate penalties for lies and illegal accusations.
    The Church does not allow divorce for any reason, including adultery.  She allows for separation under some circuмstances and also civil divorce, but a Sacramental marriage bond is never dissolved.

    Prenups which rely on identifying the "immoral spouse" are not going to work because most often both spouses think the other is the "immoral spouse".

    Here is some legal information about false allegations of domestic violence: https://mensdivorce.com/fighting-false-allegations-abuse-divorce/


    Quote
    The first step in obtaining a permanent order of protection is to file for a Temporary Restraining Order, which simply requires telling a judge you think it is necessary.

    This is done ex parte, meaning the defendant does not get the opportunity to defend himself. Since judges do not want to be on the wrong end of denying the request and then having a tragedy occur, the majority of the time it will be granted — even if the accused has no prior history of violence.

    Domestic violence is taken very seriously by the courts, and it covers a much larger scope than people often realize. If someone simply claims to feel threatened, this can be considered grounds for a temporary protection order, which instantly changes the dynamics of a divorce or custody dispute.

    Without having the opportunity to refute any claims, give their side of the story or possibly without knowledge that charges were even filed, the accused can suddenly find themselves kicked out of their home and have their children taken away for at least as long as it takes to hold a formal hearing.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #17 on: June 26, 2018, 05:03:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on June 26, 2018, 04:57:53 PM
    A prenup would cover all of this.  You don't see rich and famous people in court much, do you, for family reasons?  Because their spouses know that if they try to play games with the court system then they get nothing.  So, fine, accuse me of abuse - take the children through lies.  You're right, there's nothing I can do stop it (in the short term) but if a spouse were to take that drastic action and they were cut off from the will, from a steady income, from a car, etc. they would live a painful life.  Hopefully this threat, or the consequences afterwards, would wake them up.

    A prenup is not going to prevent marital discord, or resentment, or divorce, but it can bring order and justice to an otherwise disordered and unjust legal system.  Your real-life examples continue to prove that i'd rather have a prenup than not have one.  At least I would have some defense in a 'worst case' scenario.
    An unscrupulous woman is not going to have any problem getting around a prenup.  You are better off putting your efforts into marrying a woman of good character in the first place.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #18 on: June 26, 2018, 05:05:53 PM »
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    • Quote
    The Church does not allow divorce for any reason, including adultery.  She allows for separation under some circuмstances and also civil divorce, but a Sacramental marriage bond is never dissolved.
    We're talking about civil divorce here and have been for 5 different threads.

    Quote
    Prenups which rely on identifying the "immoral spouse" are not going to work because most often both spouses think the other is the "immoral spouse".
    If you initiate a CIVIL divorce, unless for church-approved reasons, you get no $.  You lose the children.  This is what the prenup would say.  The other spouse would help you to live and support you financially, but it would be based on THEIR terms, not the courts.

    If you allege abuse and try to get the children back, the existence of a prenup would show "motivation" for lying and at least give the other spouse the opportunity to defend themselves.

    I'd rather have a prenup than not.  You can say "it won't work" but it could work in many circuмstances.  I think you underestimate the power of a signed, witnessed, contract before the courts.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #19 on: June 26, 2018, 05:08:06 PM »
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    • Quote
    You are better off putting your efforts into marrying a woman of good character in the first place.
    We've already proven, by real-life examples, that 'good character' can be corrupted, and thus is not 100% full proof.  I'd advise someone pray for a good spouse AND have a good prenup.  Spritual + Temporal solutions to a problem are much better than just spiritual solutions (which hardly ever exist anyway).
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #20 on: June 26, 2018, 05:23:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on June 26, 2018, 05:05:53 PM
    We're talking about civil divorce here and have been for 5 different threads.
    Your statement was: "Thirdly, the Church allows separation for violence/adultery, but divorce is only allowed for adultery (per Scripture)."

    This is not correct, if you are talking about civil divorce.  The Church allows civil divorce whenever there is a separation and the divorce is needed to ensure legal rights, care of children or protection of an inheritance.

    In any circuмstance in which separation is warranted there is potential for the Church allowing civil divorce.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #21 on: June 26, 2018, 05:54:51 PM »
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    • Ok, I misspoke, but what’s your point?  Unless such a separation/divorce is approved by the church then the prenup penalties would kick in.  

    Don’t ask me to explain this in detail...i don’t have a prenup sitting in front of me.  That’s what lawyers are for, who do this for a living.  We’re discussing the THEORY behind a prenup.  
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #22 on: June 26, 2018, 06:22:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on June 26, 2018, 05:54:51 PM
    Don’t ask me to explain this in detail...i don’t have a prenup sitting in front of me.  That’s what lawyers are for, who do this for a living.  We’re discussing the THEORY behind a prenup.  
    This entire discussion of prenups has taken place without considering an actual prenup.  We aren't even really looking at the legal principles or the theory behind them.  It is all wishful thinking based on what people would like a prenup to be able to do. We have a few posters claiming that prenups can fix the injustice inherent in the system and discourage divorce.  There are even some claiming that this is an objective fact.

    We have seen no objective evidence at all to support this.  It has all been speculation that somehow a lawyer will be able to figure out a way to make a prenup do these things.  You are trying to fix a heart attack with a band-aid.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #23 on: June 26, 2018, 07:04:27 PM »
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    • Lawyers write prenups and deal with divorces for a living.  There’s nothing “special” about a Trad divorce that a lawyer hasn’t seen or couldn’t anticipate.  There is literally DECADES of evidence that prenups ensure a fairer divorce, than the husband-hating, anti-catholic court system. 
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    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #24 on: June 26, 2018, 09:31:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on June 26, 2018, 06:22:13 PM
    . We have a few posters claiming that prenups can fix the injustice inherent in the system and discourage divorce.  There are even some claiming that this is an objective fact.

    This is another strawman by you. Please quote the comments and people who stated it.

    Prenups protect the man from having his life's work stolen from him by his wife and the State, if she were to "divorce" him. That's the point of having prenups. It's not about fixing the corrupt judicial system or discouraging divorce. A lower incidence of divorce might result, but that's merely a (arguably positive) consequence.

    Prenups will also filter out the insidious women who have bad intentions before marriage, because they know they won't get anything when they try to divorce the man, therefore they won't even marry the man, or, if she refuses a prenup, the wise man will sever her from his life and find a true wife pure of heart and intention.
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    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #25 on: June 27, 2018, 12:00:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on June 26, 2018, 01:34:03 PM
    See, unless someone is accusing Ladislaus of bald face lying here, this is serious. It's something we need to address, consider, and discuss as Traditional Catholics.

    As always, if any has a problem with a particular post, please make use of the Report to Moderator link (if someone is calling another member foul names, etc.)

    I will deal with any individual members who are causing problems. As for the topic, I see ZERO problem with it being discussed on CathInfo. I don't care if the topic makes men and/or women look bad at times. We're only talking about SOME men and SOME women, anyhow. And as for any protestant preacher or CI member who suggests it's "all women", simply know that he's wrong and move on!

    And if you are weary of threads dealing with Feminism, the modern world, marriage, courtship, male/female relationships, marriage licenses with the State, etc. you are always welcome to ignore them.

    I suppose now CathInfo has "become an anti-Feminist board" because we have more than 7 threads on a given topic? You guys make me laugh! :)

    Learn how to ignore topics you don't like, people. No one is forcing you to click on ANY topic here.
    Maybe you could make a "Pastor Dowell" subforum for all of CDF's I-hate-women threads and then remove it from the recent topics list. 
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    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #26 on: June 27, 2018, 12:04:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: Smedley Butler on June 27, 2018, 12:00:52 AM
    for all of CDF's I-hate-women threads 
    You show your malicious nature with this lie and sin of detraction.
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    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #27 on: June 27, 2018, 04:06:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on June 26, 2018, 05:03:37 PM
    An unscrupulous woman is not going to have any problem getting around a prenup.  You are better off putting your efforts into marrying a woman of good character in the first place.

    [/thread]
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    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: How Women Abuse Domestic Violence Laws to Abuse & Enslave Men
    « Reply #28 on: June 27, 2018, 07:54:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: Smedley Butler on June 27, 2018, 12:00:52 AM
    Maybe you could make a "Pastor Dowell" subforum for all of CDF's I-hate-women threads and then remove it from the recent topics list.
    .
    Agreed.  Or at least put them in the men-only subforum.  I fail to see how truly traditional Catholic ladies need to hear all his hate.
    CDF ad nauseam...   :barf:
    .
    It all boils down to examining your wife before marriage and don't let teen love blind you.  This applies to the potential wife, too.  Examine your future possible husband.
    .
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    Offline Smedley Butler

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    The earth is flat
    « Reply #29 on: June 27, 2018, 07:42:27 PM »
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    • I see I picked up 300 downthumbs overnight.


    What'd you do, Croix, stay up all night? 


    Must not have a job to go to in the morning.
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