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Offline graceseeker

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How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
« on: October 05, 2017, 03:55:18 PM »
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  • do you get this ??

    but maybe it is just further proof (for any who need it) t hat

    something is diabolically wrong in the Church

    I think we are in that 3 1/2 yr period where the Church is defeated... Now, I don't claim to be an expert on End Times stuff, but I have read Apocalypse a few times.. 

    You out there who know more about this or have more theories collected from saints and other experts... you can give us more info... 

    In any case, Jn XXIII was responsible for Vatican 2

    so that alone... I mean... wow... I just don't know what to say

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 04:36:51 PM »
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  • Because Pope Pius XII was a Catholic and Roncalli was not.


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 04:38:24 PM »
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  • What's the use?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 06:15:47 PM »
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  • .
    Pius XII placed Annibale Bugnini (a Freemason) in his office where he proceeded to set up for Vatican II and the Newmass.
    .
    Pius XII began the process of dismantling the Mass by making changes in the Holy Week liturgy which was of Apostolic origin.
    .
    Pius XII allowed changes in the Psalms which turned into changing the Breviary all the priests prayed daily, with 150 Psalms each week.
    .
    Pius XII postponed the council that would have defined Mary Mediatrix and Co-Redemptrix for all time.
    .
    Pius XII neglected to make the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, with all the consequences thereof.
    .
    Pius XII played footsie with the world so-called scientific community adopting their terms and raising questions about the inerrancy of Scripture.
    .
    Instead of leaving the legacy of Teilhard de Chardin behind, he gradually began to adopt his terminology opening the door to Modernism.
    .
    Pius XII did a lot of good things, but somehow he allowed evil to lie as if dormant waiting for him to die so it could take control.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 07:29:25 PM »
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  • .
    Pius XII placed Annibale Bugnini (a Freemason) in his office where he proceeded to set up for Vatican II and the Newmass.
    .
    Pius XII began the process of dismantling the Mass by making changes in the Holy Week liturgy which was of Apostolic origin.
    .
    Pius XII allowed changes in the Psalms which turned into changing the Breviary all the priests prayed daily, with 150 Psalms each week.
    .
    Pius XII postponed the council that would have defined Mary Mediatrix and Co-Redemptrix for all time.
    .
    Pius XII neglected to make the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, with all the consequences thereof.
    .
    Pius XII played footsie with the world so-called scientific community adopting their terms and raising questions about the inerrancy of Scripture.
    .
    Instead of leaving the legacy of Teilhard de Chardin behind, he gradually began to adopt his terminology opening the door to Modernism.
    .
    Pius XII did a lot of good things, but somehow he allowed evil to lie as if dormant waiting for him to die so it could take control.
    .
    :applause: :applause: :applause:
    I would only add PXII aided the masonic led forces against the Christian forces of Europe. The man was no saint and played a major role of the demise of Europe that we see unfolding as we speak. 
    "The whole secret of the campaigns unleashed against Europe can be explained in two words: Masonry and Communism... we have to extirpate these two evils from our land." -Franco


    Offline JPaul

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #5 on: October 05, 2017, 08:41:09 PM »
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  • :applause: :applause: :applause:
    I would only add PXII aided the masonic led forces against the Christian forces of Europe. The man was no saint and played a major role of the demise of Europe that we see unfolding as we speak.
    I would certainly second the approval of Neil's observations. Well done!  And I would concur with your comments here.  When European and World Christendom was at war with Masonic, Communist, and Jewish forces, Pius was of a wrong mind in his political thinking and actions, eventually bringing the Church in line with enemies of Christ and all men, who sadly triumphed over the Christian west.
    Which brings us then, to the state of servitude and depravity under which we live today.
    His predecessors also had a hand in this devolution as well. 

    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #6 on: October 05, 2017, 09:10:43 PM »
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  • I would certainly second the approval of Neil's observations. Well done!  And I would concur with your comments here.  When European and World Christendom was at war with Masonic, Communist, and Jewish forces, Pius was of a wrong mind in his political thinking and actions, eventually bringing the Church in line with enemies of Christ and all men, who sadly triumphed over the Christian west.
    Which brings us then, to the state of servitude and depravity under which we live today.
    His predecessors also had a hand in this devolution as well.
    .
    You can read the literature output of Pius XII, which is available in books and to some degree online. His language is obviously not in consistent conformity with the great pope-saints of history, especially Pope St. Pius X, the most recent great pope we've had. The difference between their writings speaks for itself.
    .
    St. Pius X was an enormous blessing for the Church, and he died far too young. By today's standards one might easily suspect foul play, but in those days Catholics were far less suspicious.
    .
    While Pope Pius XII gave us the much-needed infallible definition of Our Lady's Assumption, body and soul into heaven (Nov. 1st, 1950), and went out of his way to protect persecuted people during WWII not discriminating against Jews, he was a puzzling mix of priorities. Far be it from us to pass judgment on his person, for he certainly reigned during a very challenging time in history, we ought to be careful in attributing to him more than the facts bear out. 
    .
    All in all, he managed to hold down the fort in times of great peril, unlike his successors. 
    .
    We get the leaders we deserve. Kyrie eleison.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 09:24:14 PM »
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  • do you get this ??

    but maybe it is just further proof (for any who need it) t hat

    something is diabolically wrong in the Church

    I think we are in that 3 1/2 yr period where the Church is defeated... Now, I don't claim to be an expert on End Times stuff, but I have read Apocalypse a few times..

    You out there who know more about this or have more theories collected from saints and other experts... you can give us more info...

    In any case, Jn XXIII was responsible for Vatican 2

    so that alone... I mean... wow... I just don't know what to say
    How is it that John XXIII is "pope", and yet Pius XII is not?

    Do you get this?

    GIGO
    "Pope" John's "Church" is the horse dead in the gate, not The Church; if She could be defeated at all, for even the briefest moment, then Catholics throughout history are abominable fools.

    There isn't just something wrong in "the Church", but in the "thinking" that it fosters.

    Also, and please make a distinction between using an approved apparition to "do theology" for example, and forming some prudent questions and contemplations, but since "mind blown" already, what did it mean for "Pope" John XXIII to say that Fatima was irrelevant to his "pontificate"?

    What could that say, what must it mean, and what can't it?

    Seriously, think on that.

    Hope this, in whole or part, helps.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 03:34:12 PM »
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  • Because Pope Pius XII was a Catholic and Roncalli was not.
    so you're saying that we haven't had an valid popes since Pius XII?
    yeh, I used to think such thoughts were extreme but not anymore

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #9 on: October 13, 2017, 03:35:58 PM »
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  • :applause: :applause: :applause:
    I would only add PXII aided the masonic led forces against the Christian forces of Europe. The man was no saint and played a major role of the demise of Europe that we see unfolding as we speak.
    ok, assuming all that stuff is true of Pius XII
    that still does not explain why htose others are canonized.
    Do u think the canonization process is bunk... meaning corrupt?

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 03:38:14 PM »
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  • .
    You can read the literature output of Pius XII, which is available in books and to some degree online. His language is obviously not in consistent conformity with the great pope-saints of history, especially Pope St. Pius X, the most recent great pope we've had. The difference between their writings speaks for itself.
    .
    St. Pius X was an enormous blessing for the Church, and he died far too young. By today's standards one might easily suspect foul play, but in those days Catholics were far less suspicious.
    .
    While Pope Pius XII gave us the much-needed infallible definition of Our Lady's Assumption, body and soul into heaven (Nov. 1st, 1950), and went out of his way to protect persecuted people during WWII not discriminating against Jews, he was a puzzling mix of priorities. Far be it from us to pass judgment on his person, for he certainly reigned during a very challenging time in history, we ought to be careful in attributing to him more than the facts bear out.
    .
    All in all, he managed to hold down the fort in times of great peril, unlike his successors.
    .
    We get the leaders we deserve. Kyrie eleison.
    .
    I guess the Q shouldhave been
    is the canonization process no longer ... no longer has integrity?


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #11 on: October 13, 2017, 04:00:22 PM »
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  • so you're saying that we haven't had an valid popes since Pius XII?
    yeh, I used to think such thoughts were extreme but not anymore
    The truth is never extreme.

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #12 on: October 13, 2017, 08:40:39 PM »
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  • Pius XII did a lot of good things, but somehow he allowed evil to lie as if dormant waiting for him to die so it could take control.
    It's called tolerance: to tolerate an evil so as to avert a greater evil.

    Pope Pius XII was not surrounded by a Cdl. Merry del Val and other saints like Pope St. Pius X was.
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #13 on: October 14, 2017, 01:36:25 AM »
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  • It's called tolerance: to tolerate an evil so as to avert a greater evil.

    Pope Pius XII was not surrounded by a Cdl. Merry del Val and other saints like Pope St. Pius X was.
    Monday morning quarterbacking and armchair pontificating are as popular as ever.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline poche

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    Re: How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?
    « Reply #14 on: October 14, 2017, 04:03:29 AM »
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  • How is Pope John XXIII a saint (??) & Pius XII is not?  

    Don't worry. It is only a matter of time and Pope Pius XII will be known as Pope St. Pius XII 

     

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