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Offline Matthew

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Gun discussion thread
« on: November 07, 2008, 08:32:24 PM »
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  • Apparently guns and ammo are flying off the shelves now --
    It's good for Catholics to be well informed about this as well as any other topic.


    Gun discussion thread

    Yes, gun ownership is an issue with Catholics, even moreso now with the run on guns that began before Obama's election. As anyone who's been in the market will tell you, guns, gun parts and ammo is literally flying off the shelves. Getting a barrel from Bushmaster is a 2 month wait.

    Here's a telling blurb from THIS SITE:

    Stag Arms M4

    SOLD OUT DUE TO OUR NEW PRESIDENT!
    Our Price: $899.00

    And this from ammoman.com:

    Quote:
    AMMOMAN.COM WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY NEW ORDERS FOR A DAY OR TWO WE ARE 2000 ORDERS BEHIND AND NEED TO CATCH UP. WE WILL NOT BE TAKING PHONE OR FAX ORDERS WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ANSWER THE PHONES IT MAY TAKE UP TO 3 DAYS OR MORE TO ANSWER YOUR E-MAILS PLEASE BE PATIENT AND WE WILL BE WORKING SATURDAY AND SUNDAY TO CATCH UP WE WERE GETTING UP TO 800 ORDERS A DAY AND THAT'S JUST TOO MUCH FOR US THANKS FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING


    It stands to reason that there are a lot of Catholics out there - with varying degrees of experience and knowledge - buying guns. It is good that we discuss these matters here.

    I had thought about starting a topic on this subject, but what finally prompted me finally post a thread was a private message I received from a member, who would like to remain anonymous. The PM read as follows:

    Quote:
    My husband has been working out of town and is expected to be gone for several more months, possibly even up to a year. I was thinking of going out to buy a gun, or some guns, but I know absolutely nothing about guns. I stopped into Walmart to look at their guns the other day while my daughter was in ballet class, but I felt very much like a fish out of water. Is there any advice you can give me that I should consider when purchasing guns? I know that is a very vague question, but even some of the basics would be helpful.

    We do own one small hand gun already, but that is all that we have. We do not have any hunting guns, etc.

    I kind of think we need to purchase a variety of guns. Our handgun is a little heavy for me, so I wanted a lighter one. I also kind of think we need to have a shot gun and or a rifle. I am not sure on budget, I guess taht depends. I looked at a Remington Remington Model 700, Caliber 30-06, at Walmart the other day for $467. The salesman said it was a good gun and that the price was reasonable. Not knowing guns, I don't know if that is good or not. I was kind of hoping to spend less on an individual gun, but maybe that expectation is not reasonable.


    Before we begin, the very first thing is safety. If you are a gun owner and you don't have these rules drilled into your very being, you are proceeding irresponsibly.

    The four rules of firearm safety
    Courtesy of AR15.com

          Rule 1
          ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
          The only exception to this occurs when you have a firearm in your hands and you have personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as you put it down, Rule 1 applies again.

          Rule 2
          NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY
          You may not wish to destroy it, but you must be clear in your mind that you are quite ready to if you let that muzzle cover the target. To allow a firearm to point at another human being is a deadly threat, and should always be treated as such.

          Rule 3
          KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
          This we call the Golden Rule because its violation is responsible for about 80 percent of the firearms disasters we read about.

          Rule 4
          BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT
          You never shoot at anything until you have positively identified it. You never fire at a shadow, or a sound, or a suspected presence. You shoot only when you know absolutely what you are shooting at and what is beyond it.



    Also it is important to become familiar with gun laws in your country, state, locality. They don't allow guns in jail, so it doesn't seem to make sense to own one that will put you there.

    To the lady who inquired about what type of gun to own, I'll throw in just a few cents and let others expound.

    The Remmington 700 you're looking at is a fine piece. The .308 model is widely used by the military for sniper operations, so 700s have a reputation for being very accurate at long ranges. The 30-06 is a great round for hunting just about any big-game found in America. There are some drawbacks however.

    For a lady, that 30-06 model will kick like a mule. You may want to try one out before buying to see if it's too much for you. If so, the 700 comes in a wide variety of calibers. Keep in mind that while something like a .223 it won't be as effective on big game and very long range shots.

    Another drawback to long-guns like the 700 is that they aren't much for home defense. Most are too long and clumsy, and the larger calibers will penetrate walls - possibly your neighbor's.

    Shotguns are good for all around use. Versatility for small and large game hunting in addition to home defense. You can keep slugs for large game, buckshot for large game and home defense, and smaller shot for small game and skeet. A 12 gauge kicks pretty hard, but my wife is only 5 feet tall and she handles my Mossberg 500 just fine.

    As far as handguns go, for ladies and beginners many recommend revolvers (like .38s or similar) for its simplicity of use. Just pull the trigger and it goes. Semi-autos are good, but they're more mechanicallycomplicated, require more care, are less reliable (especially if not cared for) and are often less safe than a revolver.

    Whatever gun one decides to purchase, he/she should become initmate familiar with it (breaking down, cleaning, quirks etc.) and above all...

    BE SAFE

    Perhaps others can weigh in with their 2-cents.
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    Offline Dawn

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    Gun discussion thread
    « Reply #1 on: November 08, 2008, 07:50:28 AM »
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  • We sold any guns we had during an especially difficult financial time. My husband has military training (Army and National Guard).
    I have no experience whatsoever. I read a book given to me by a friend about surviving martial law. This former military man stated that it would be foolish to think that a civilian could tangle with a trained soldier come to take your guns. I know in my case that is true. Others may be stronger than I so I understand their side as well.
    In my perfect world my son would be home from his second tour in Iraq with the Marines. He would know how to protect us. He even said on one of his last phone calls that it sounds like the Marines need to come home to protect America from what is about to take place here.
    Sort of like the character in the movie The Shooter.


    Offline Matthew

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    Gun discussion thread
    « Reply #2 on: November 08, 2008, 08:34:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: Dawn

    In my perfect world my son would be home from his second tour in Iraq with the Marines. He would know how to protect us. He even said on one of his last phone calls that it sounds like the Marines need to come home to protect America from what is about to take place here.
    Sort of like the character in the movie The Shooter.


    Thank you for that important information, Dawn.

    Some of us don't even get those kind of hints. "protect America from what is about to take place here." is very ominous -- and we already know they have a brigade (?) stationed here to quickly quell any riots. What do they see coming?

    I also read that "Surviving Martial Law" PDF -- I couldn't help but agree with all of it. He seemed to know what he was talking about -- it's scary, but true that if a few soldiers come to take your guns, you better give them up. A few soldiers would make mincemeat of even a man and his five grown sons -- unless they were ALL ex-marines or something. Soldiers do this stuff for a living...and even worse, they have a VERY lethal weapon in their arsenal -- a radio for backup. And no family in their bunker wants to hear the words "Air support"!

    Matthew
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    Offline Matthew

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    Gun discussion thread
    « Reply #3 on: November 08, 2008, 08:44:51 AM »
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  • Want to say "thank you"? 
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    Offline sedetrad

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    Gun discussion thread
    « Reply #4 on: November 08, 2008, 10:52:27 PM »
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  • Thank you Dawn for the info. That is indeed ominous. I agree that no average person could compare to a trained soldier or a group of trained soldiers. I pray that your son and many like him are able to get home in time when the stuff hits the fan.


    Offline Dawn

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    « Reply #5 on: November 09, 2008, 07:42:52 AM »
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  • Thanks, however it did seem to me that they would be allocated to another part of this war. Like Afghanistan. My son signed for his second tour after much deliberation when they told him that he was being considered for the role of one of the Marines riding around with President Bush in Air Force One. See, he is my step-son in truth but a tall boy 6'3" and very handsome so he was flattered. Guess what? They lied. I tried to warn him but his whole life is Marine now and how could I possibly know anything.
    Still, Michael Savage always says, and I tend to believe, that the Marines are the only branch of the military that is  not taught to turn on civilians in America. I asked my son if they ever gave a what if scenario to them, he said of course not, we protect America. However, my son (step) in the Navy said the Navy is different and I know that the Army has that in their papers, you must be willing to fight Americans in cases of civil unrest.

    Offline Dawn

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    « Reply #6 on: November 09, 2008, 08:45:06 AM »
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  • For clarification, he do not really allude to the fact that he knew anything was going on for sure here. I told him about North-Com and some other happenings. He said he hears alot of whispers but no real facts. Then he said we needed them home and I said truly, however, they are wearing the Marines down so they are not able to do much of anything when they are done. As far as I know, and I think Roscoe has more knowledge of this than I, but the Marines are usually First In, First Out. They level the playing field, leave and turn it over to the Army. The Marines have been in this battle since the beginning and hare really suffering for it, casualties, mental and physical health.

    Offline roscoe

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    Gun discussion thread
    « Reply #7 on: November 09, 2008, 12:47:00 PM »
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  • Don't be foolish enought to believe that marines will not turn on the American people-- they will do what they are told. A firearm is not only to protect from a gov gone wild but bands of roving lunatics that will be flooding the streets when the crash comes--all should be armed.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #8 on: November 09, 2008, 12:56:41 PM »
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  • Don't sell the army short Dawn  as they took care of alot of crap during WWII in Europe without any help from Marines. Of course we had no business getting involved in 'WW' II but that is another story. There is no 'WW' I, II, III or IV, it's just one big ritual sacrifice to Moloch which began in 1517.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline trent13

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    Gun discussion thread
    « Reply #9 on: November 09, 2008, 08:29:04 PM »
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  • Not to bust the marines because I think they are the saving grace of military as whole these days (no offence to all the other branches, but hey, freedom of speech right?  it's just what I think), but isn't one of their big sayings, "Shoot and let God sort them out?"  or is that the army?  i would hope that out young men and women serving in the military have the integrity and fortitude to decide for the American people, but it isn't too hard to believe that they can be conditioned to believe they have to "save America from Americans."  

    Interestingly enough my brother-in-law who was recently stationed in Afghanistan and is traditional Catholic actually thought it a good idea (on his return to the US) to be sticking a microchip into our soldiers "in order to be able to track them by satellite during a battle."  Now this is a good, smart, traditional Catholic, and yet, they were able to convince him that such a thing would be a good idea - my point is that they could make anything they decide to do sound good to their soldiers, especially since so many of them are not guided by the faith and are not trained in any sort of real ethics.