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Author Topic: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading  (Read 3086 times)

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Offline Vintagewife3

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Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2018, 12:25:37 PM »
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    • You till me what you consider scandalous in a marriage. Then we can see if we are even talking about the same thing.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #16 on: December 16, 2018, 12:26:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Vintagewife3 on December 16, 2018, 11:29:47 AM
    We should never attack anyone unless our lives, or physical well being depend on it. So we don’t break the 5th commandment.
    The 5th Commandment does not apply to just punishments.  This is why traditionally Catholics have virtually always accepted capital, as well as corporal, punishment.  It has never been Church teaching that self-defence is the only acceptable reason to use force.

    If one looks at the examination of conscience in the Angelus Missal, one of the questions under the 5th commandment is whether one has "threatened or struck others not under your charge".  Catholics believe that physical force may be used as a legitimate exercise of authority.

    One may make an argument that a husband does not have that sort of authority over his wife (although this is not historically the Catholic view), but one cannot claim that self-defence is the only permissible reason for physical force.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #17 on: December 16, 2018, 12:32:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quid Retribuam Domino on December 16, 2018, 12:08:48 PM
    What if the soul depends on it? The state of the soul is more important than the physical life. Corporal punishment is just, not abuse, against a wife who scandalizes children or puts her own, or her husband's, soul at risk of damnation.
    This would have been the standard belief of Catholics for most of our history.  It is a recent development that this is now considered controversial.
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    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #18 on: December 16, 2018, 12:37:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on December 16, 2018, 12:26:39 PM
    The 5th Commandment does not apply to just punishments.  This is why traditionally Catholics have virtually always accepted capital, as well as corporal, punishment.  It has never been Church teaching that self-defence is the only acceptable reason to use force.

    If one looks at the examination of conscience in the Angelus Missal, one of the questions under the 5th commandment is whether one has "threatened or struck others not under your charge".  Catholics believe that physical force may be used as a legitimate exercise of authority.

    One may make an argument that a husband does not have that sort of authority over his wife (although this is not historically the Catholic view), but one cannot claim that self-defence is the only permissible reason for physical force.
    I’m not against any of that. We also aren’t talking about in a court system. We are talking about in a marriage. 
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    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #19 on: December 16, 2018, 12:41:45 PM »
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    • I’m not against anything the church teaches about wives being submissive.


    I’m not against the death penalty at all. 


    But when we are talking about in a marriage which is entirely different from this those situations. If a husband is allowed to do this who knows what kind of rules, or punishments he could apply. 
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #20 on: December 16, 2018, 12:44:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: Vintagewife3 on December 16, 2018, 12:37:02 PM
    I’m not against any of that. We also aren’t talking about in a court system. We are talking about in a marriage.

    These are both situations involving authority.  The court system applies the authority of the state, while, within marriage, the husband has authority over his wife.  These situations use the same underlying Catholic principles concerning authority using physical force.


    Quote from: Vintagewife3 on December 16, 2018, 12:41:45 PM
    But when we are talking about in a marriage which is entirely different from this those situations. If a husband is allowed to do this who knows what kind of rules, or punishments he could apply.

    Due to the fallen nature of humanity, there is always a possibility that a man could misuse the authority to punish his wife.  But this is separate from the question of whether such authority exists in the first place.  Wouldn't you agree that parents have the authority to use corporal punishment on children even though there are instances of parents misusing this authority?  Does the state have authority even though there are instances of state misuse of authority?
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    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #21 on: December 16, 2018, 12:57:49 PM »
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    • Yes, to both of your questions. I understand what you are saying, but I still don’t think husbands should be permitted to punish their wives. How does it even help with a happy marriage? Does the husband get punished if messes up? Why should the wife have to be punished when the man himself isn’t perfect either?
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #22 on: December 16, 2018, 01:08:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Vintagewife3 on December 16, 2018, 12:57:49 PM
    Yes, to both of your questions. I understand what you are saying, but I still don’t think husbands should be permitted to punish their wives. How does it even help with a happy marriage? Does the husband get punished if messes up? Why should the wife have to be punished when the man himself isn’t perfect either?
    One could ask the same questions about parents punishing children.  Parents aren't perfect but still punish children.  Being perfect has nothing to do with the authority to punish.

    You seem to be looking for excuses to support your position rather than starting with Catholic principles and logically considering how to apply them.
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    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #23 on: December 16, 2018, 02:15:12 PM »
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    • I’ve been sitting here for the past 3 days doing whatever research I could find on this. I’ve only so far found a few quotes on such topic, and it was about a wife cheating. Even then those quotes were from a different time. We don’t follow all rules of the last, now do we? Just because it was done, doesn’t mean it’s what should be done. It also doesn’t make it right. Know better, do better. The church never even had a stand on such a view until these past years. Past wives submit to your husbands, or wives fear your husbands.The word fear can be interrupted in a few different ways, and yes, one of them is by use of force. When you look at all other teachings how a husband should love his wife as himself, or as Christ loves the church. I think it’s safe to say God wasn’t for husbands punishing their wives in any physical way. I’m not against a husband discipline his spouse. Of course he should if she is failing in her duties!  But it should still be done with respect to her hunan dignity. There are other forms of punishment that I would say would be even more effective then hitting.

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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #24 on: December 16, 2018, 02:24:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Vintagewife3 on December 16, 2018, 12:57:49 PM
    Does the husband get punished if messes up? 
    It depends on how he "messes up", and what messes up means. But certainly not by the wife.

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    Why should the wife have to be punished when the man himself isn’t perfect either?
    Only God is perfect and both husbands and wives are imperfect. That does not take away husband's GOD-GIVEN authority over his wife. There always has to be order in creation   - and in creation  God made man to have a higher authority than the wife. So God set man over the woman, just as a woman has authority over her children. It is essential for a happy ordered existence in this valley of tears. 
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    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #25 on: December 16, 2018, 02:30:37 PM »
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    • VW3, you seem to be equating punishment with violence, though you often use the word "force",  by which you seem to imply violence.

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    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #26 on: December 16, 2018, 03:04:04 PM »
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    • I don’t argue mans authority over his family, Nadir. Just how far it goes by way of punishment of his wife.  
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    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #27 on: December 16, 2018, 04:17:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Vintagewife3 on December 16, 2018, 03:04:04 PM
    I don’t argue mans authority over his family, Nadir. Just how far it goes by way of punishment of his wife. 

    VW3 has employed "truth" fluidity from the get-go of these threads. She'll state the orthodox line like a parrot. She's claims to be fine with Catholic doctrine on these matters until she realizes certain situations aren't to her advantage - at which point her opposition becomes fixed regardless of any appeal to logic or reason that is made - and then she'll still utter vague posits that superficially appear as if she agrees with the Church on the natural order of husband and wife.

    In effect, something is only "true" if it benefits her or somehow enables her own material preservation.
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    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #28 on: December 16, 2018, 04:52:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quid Retribuam Domino on December 16, 2018, 04:17:45 PM
    VW3 has employed "truth" fluidity from the get-go of these threads. She'll state the orthodox line like a parrot. She's claims to be fine with Catholic doctrine on these matters until she realizes certain situations aren't to her advantage - at which point her opposition becomes fixed regardless of any appeal to logic or reason that is made - and then she'll still utter vague posits that superficially appear as if she agrees with the Church on the natural order of husband and wife.

    In effect, something is only "true" if it benefits her or somehow enables her own material preservation.
    You don’t even know me in real life. So, stop.  I appreciate all views on the matter, but it sits wrong with me. 
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Girl Pours Bleach On Men To Stop Man-Spreading
    « Reply #29 on: December 16, 2018, 05:18:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Vintagewife3 on December 16, 2018, 02:15:12 PM
    I’ve been sitting here for the past 3 days doing whatever research I could find on this. I’ve only so far found a few quotes on such topic, and it was about a wife cheating. Even then those quotes were from a different time. We don’t follow all rules of the last, now do we? Just because it was done, doesn’t mean it’s what should be done. It also doesn’t make it right. Know better, do better. The church never even had a stand on such a view until these past years. Past wives submit to your husbands, or wives fear your husbands.The word fear can be interrupted in a few different ways, and yes, one of them is by use of force. When you look at all other teachings how a husband should love his wife as himself, or as Christ loves the church. I think it’s safe to say God wasn’t for husbands punishing their wives in any physical way. I’m not against a husband discipline his spouse. Of course he should if she is failing in her duties!  But it should still be done with respect to her hunan dignity. There are other forms of punishment that I would say would be even more effective then hitting.

    There were hundreds upon hundreds of years in which Catholics taught and practiced that a husband's authority included the possibility of punishing a wife in a physical way.  There have been only a few decades in which people have questioned this view.  The movement associated with rejecting the traditional belief also promotes the idea that it is fine for women to kill their babies.  I do not think we can assume the modern view "knows better" or is a good reflection of what God wants.  

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