Author Topic: Francis plans to place wreath on Zionist founder Theodore Herzls grave! (Read 6734 times)

Geremia · « **on:** May 22, 2014, 12:03:33 AM »

Francis plans to visit and place a wreath on Zionist founder Theodore Herzl's grave in Jerusalem! (source)

(And St. Thomas says one would apostatize by worshiping at Mohammad's grave!)

This is an attack on one of Pope St. Pius X's most courageous acts, when he told Herzl in a private audience, despite Herzl expressing that Jerusalem, because of its holy places, would be extraterritorial:

Quote from: Pope St. Pius X

The Jєωs have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.

Quote from: Pope St. Pius X

If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we shall have churches and priests ready to baptize all of you.

crossbro · « **Reply #1 on:** May 22, 2014, 12:08:59 AM »

I almost wish I die before Francis just so I can be there to see the meeting between him and Pius X. Francis is going to get his butt kicked.

poche · « **Reply #2 on:** May 22, 2014, 12:11:22 AM »

A lot has changed since Pope Pius X, two world wars, redrawing of the world map several times over, etc. We have to recognize things as they are, it is not the start of the 1900s anymore.

crossbro · « **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2014, 12:28:03 AM »

Quote from: poche

A lot has changed since Pope Pius X, two world wars, redrawing of the world map several times over, etc. We have to recognize things as they are, it is not the start of the 1900s anymore.

God has not changed, his rules have never changed.

There is nothing new under the sun.

You embrace modernism poche like many others who choose the world.

Your sentiment is the exact opposite of what Jesus told us to do.

poche · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2014, 12:51:41 AM »

Quote from: crossbro

Quote from: poche
A lot has changed since Pope Pius X, two world wars, redrawing of the world map several times over, etc. We have to recognize things as they are, it is not the start of the 1900s anymore.

God has not changed, his rules have never changed.

There is nothing new under the sun.

You embrace modernism poche like many others who choose the world.

Your sentiment is the exact opposite of what Jesus told us to do.

No, it is not modernism. It is a recognition that the political realities have changed over the past 100+ years. When Pius X was pope he was a prisoner in the Vatican. Today there is a concordat with Italy that changes all that. There were two world wars. The political map has changed several times over. I join in agreement with you in saying that God has not changed his rules. The pope as a world leader and spiritual guide to millions of people is engaging these reaslities. The pope is infallible in matters of dogma and faith. He is not infallible in matters of politics.
Or are you suggesting that Pope Francis go back to being a prisoner in the Vatican the way that Pope Pius X was?

crossbro · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2014, 12:57:47 AM »

This has not changed poche:

Quote

The Jєωs have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.

If you are stating that two world wars and national boundaries have changed that then I am saying you are a modernist.

If you are saying that somehow Francis is more sophisticated or clever than Pius X then I have another name for you also but am too polite to use it.

poche · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2014, 02:00:02 AM »

Quote from: crossbro

This has not changed poche:

Quote
The Jєωs have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.

If you are stating that two world wars and national boundaries have changed that then I am saying you are a modernist.

If you are saying that somehow Francis is more sophisticated or clever than Pius X then I have another name for you also but am too polite to use it.

We re not talking about acceptance of the doctrinal errors of the Jєωιѕн religion. We are talking about the political recognition of the state of Israel. There is a difference.
In 1905 the idea of a Jєωιѕн state in the Holy Land was a dream. Today it is a political reality. In 1905 the Hapsburgh family ruled the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Today they are Austria, the Czech Republic, part of Poland, Hungary, part of the Ukraine, part of Romania, Slovenia, Bosnia Herzogovina, and Croatia. Are you saying that it is the heresy of Modernism for the Holy See to recognize the political reality of all these countries? That the Holy See must act as if the Hapsburgs were still the emperors of all those countries?

crossbro · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2014, 02:11:09 AM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: crossbro

This has not changed poche:

Quote
The Jєωs have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.

If you are stating that two world wars and national boundaries have changed that then I am saying you are a modernist.

If you are saying that somehow Francis is more sophisticated or clever than Pius X then I have another name for you also but am too polite to use it.

We re not talking about acceptance of the doctrinal errors of the Jєωιѕн religion. We are talking about the political recognition of the state of Israel. There is a difference.
In 1905 the idea of a Jєωιѕн state in the Holy Land was a dream. Today it is a political reality. In 1905 the Hapsburgh family ruled the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Today they are Austria, the Czech Republic, part of Poland, Hungary, part of the Ukraine, part of Romania, Slovenia, Bosnia Herzogovina, and Croatia. Are you saying that it is the heresy of Modernism for the Holy See to recognize the political reality of all these countries? That the Holy See must act as if the Hapsburgs were still the emperors of all those countries?

What Pius said is we cannot recognize other religions if they do not recognize Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

That was the post that started this exchange and your rant about world wars and borders. Pope Francis does not have to recognize anyone or anything- borders or religion. But he is doing both and has been from the start. That is undeniable. It is the heresy of modernism to embrace them as equals. That is exactly what he is doing.

poche · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2014, 03:17:15 AM »

Quote from: crossbro

Quote from: poche
Quote from: crossbro

This has not changed poche:

Quote
The Jєωs have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.

If you are stating that two world wars and national boundaries have changed that then I am saying you are a modernist.

If you are saying that somehow Francis is more sophisticated or clever than Pius X then I have another name for you also but am too polite to use it.

We re not talking about acceptance of the doctrinal errors of the Jєωιѕн religion. We are talking about the political recognition of the state of Israel. There is a difference.
In 1905 the idea of a Jєωιѕн state in the Holy Land was a dream. Today it is a political reality. In 1905 the Hapsburgh family ruled the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Today they are Austria, the Czech Republic, part of Poland, Hungary, part of the Ukraine, part of Romania, Slovenia, Bosnia Herzogovina, and Croatia. Are you saying that it is the heresy of Modernism for the Holy See to recognize the political reality of all these countries? That the Holy See must act as if the Hapsburgs were still the emperors of all those countries?

What Pius said is we cannot recognize other religions if they do not recognize Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

That was the post that started this exchange and your rant about world wars and borders. Pope Francis does not have to recognize anyone or anything- borders or religion. But he is doing both and has been from the start. That is undeniable. It is the heresy of modernism to embrace them as equals. That is exactly what he is doing.

When Pius X made tht statement it was in response to a request that the he politically support the Zionist movement. Pius X refused. A lot has changed in the political landscape over the years.

JPaul · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2014, 07:37:54 AM »

poche,

Quote

We re not talking about acceptance of the doctrinal errors of the Jєωιѕн religion. We are talking about the political recognition of the state of Israel. There is a difference.
In 1905 the idea of a Jєωιѕн state in the Holy Land was a dream. Today it is a political reality. In 1905 the Hapsburgh family ruled the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Today they are Austria, the Czech Republic, part of Poland, Hungary, part of the Ukraine, part of Romania, Slovenia, Bosnia Herzogovina, and Croatia. Are you saying that it is the heresy of Modernism for the Holy See to recognize the political reality of all these countries? That the Holy See must act as if the Hapsburgs were still the emperors of all those countries?

What you are talking about is recognition of the Jєωs accomplishing what they set out to do, destroy Christendom, destroy Europe, and steal the Near East for themselves. They were instrumental in forcing all of the "political realities which you have listed. They are a people of chaos and destruction.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2014, 02:00:34 PM »

Quote from: poche

A lot has changed since Pope Pius X, two world wars, redrawing of the world map several times over, etc. We have to recognize things as they are, it is not the start of the 1900s anymore.

How has the Catholic Faith changed? It sounds like you are saying that the faith must adapt and embrace the era in which it finds itself.

Poche, do you think there may be a penalty for denying Christ? The Jєωs denied Christ in 1900 and the Jєωs deny Christ in 2014.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2014, 02:03:19 PM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: crossbro

This has not changed poche:

Quote
The Jєωs have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.

If you are stating that two world wars and national boundaries have changed that then I am saying you are a modernist.

If you are saying that somehow Francis is more sophisticated or clever than Pius X then I have another name for you also but am too polite to use it.

We re not talking about acceptance of the doctrinal errors of the Jєωιѕн religion. We are talking about the political recognition of the state of Israel. There is a difference.
In 1905 the idea of a Jєωιѕн state in the Holy Land was a dream. Today it is a political reality. In 1905 the Hapsburgh family ruled the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Today they are Austria, the Czech Republic, part of Poland, Hungary, part of the Ukraine, part of Romania, Slovenia, Bosnia Herzogovina, and Croatia. Are you saying that it is the heresy of Modernism for the Holy See to recognize the political reality of all these countries? That the Holy See must act as if the Hapsburgs were still the emperors of all those countries?

Poche,

Widespread acceptance of abortion is the reality of today. Do we change Catholic teaching on this issue too?

It's one thing to accept the existence of a U.N. created Zionist state but it's another thing to lay a wreath at the grave of a anti-Catholic bigot like Herzl.

Charlemagne · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2014, 02:26:40 PM »

Here's a reality: Francis is an apostate who'd rather schmooze with fellow apostates, heretics, Jєωs, and muzzies than promote and defend the Faith. Our seven-year-old knows more about being Catholic than that clown.

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2014, 07:48:31 PM »

Poche, you can't compare Pius X to Francis in a good way.

One was Pope in the 1900s, the other would've been found guilty of heresy in the 1900s.

Charlemagne · « **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2014, 08:26:47 PM »

Quote from: JezusDeKoning

Poche, you can't compare Pius X to Francis in a good way.

One was Pope in the 1900s, the other would've been found guilty of heresy in the 1900s.

Well, maybe in the early-to-mid-1900s, anyway. :wink: