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Author Topic: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists  (Read 29502 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
« Reply #210 on: August 30, 2021, 02:14:33 PM »
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  • This is only about radio carbon dating, which is just one of several dating methods used today. It's also only supposed to be accurate in the five to six figure ages. There are other dating methods which are more accurate for much longer timespans by using decay periods of known radioactive elements in rocks to date them. But that by far is not the only thing that points towards an old universe. There's increasing evidence that the universe is in fact very old, things which I and others have listed before in this thread. I can't yet wrap my head around this dilemma.

    There's other stuff out there about the other radio dating methods that's just as damning.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #211 on: August 30, 2021, 02:22:14 PM »
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  • The Eastern tradition is c 5500 BC.
    You don't know what modernism is any more than you know science or philosophy of science.

    As far as the dating, there's an intersection between the Bible going forward in time and historical sources going backward in time.  So, for instance, the Genesis account in terms of clear dating terminates at Abraham.  So it depends on when historical sources place Abraham and the degree of certainty we have about those historical dates.  There are probably other indications in the Bible of chronology.  But we're talking about 6,000 +/- years vs. the absurd claim that human beings have been around for 200,000 years.  Depending on historical knowledge, the dates could vary plus or minus by a few hundred years ... not a few hundred thousand.

    I went to both a Jesuit High School and a Jesuit University, and I have an intimate knowledge of Modernism.  And you're a Modernist.


    Offline Romulus

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #212 on: August 30, 2021, 02:39:24 PM »
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  • Why did the velociraptor exist? It's a killing machine. How and why did any carnivores even exist? How did parasites live? Have you ever seen an animal infested by mangoworms? What's that about? It all seems to be about killing, blind, pitiless indifference. What about aging, wearing of bones etc.? The larger or stronger or smarter species survives. What about storms, hurricanes, tornados, tsunamis, volcano eruptions, etc.? I'm having a lot of difficulty imagining the perfect creation.

    Parasites, natural disasters and all that are punishments for sin. If we stopped sinning, those would be decreased dramaticly.
    Also the velocerapter is only about 2 feet tall. Unlike what was pictured in Jurassic Park

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #213 on: August 30, 2021, 02:46:55 PM »
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  • Let's also not forget the BIG changes to both mankind and nature, after Noah's flood.  Pre-flood, man had a lifespan of centuries.  Nature was also more in harmony with man.  Post-flood, God cursed mankind and also nature, as a punishment for sins.  Mankind's lifespan was now only 100 years and nature was also more violent/erratic, making man's life that much harder, driving him to more humility.
    .
    Also, the flood destroyed the firmament in the heavens and it disrupted the foundations/plates of the earth, which separated the continents by thousands of miles.  The whole earth was in turmoil due to the flood.  These changes were permanent.
    .
    Not to nitpick, but we technically don't know if people in general lived for centuries before the Flood. There is no general statement to that effect in the Bible. All we have is a list of patriarchs and how long they lived. So it's possible the people listed lived a miraculous length of time and everyone else lived to be 100 or 120 years or so.
    .
    I've always wondered about that. If I have time today, I will try to see what Cornelius a Lapide had to say on this question, if anything.
    .
    I agree with everything in the rest of your post, though. The environment of the earth became less healthful after the Flood. That is why God told Noe to eat meat when he landed (implying that people didn't do that before the Flood, apparently not needing that extra nourishment), and also why God inspired Noe to make wine, another thing that the human diet only required after the Flood. Apparently Noe was the first person to consume wine.
    .
    I think there is good evidence that dramatic changes in the weather were also the result of the Flood. Extremes of temperatures for the seasons, hurricanes, storms, rain. I think there is a verse that even suggests there wasn't exactly rain before the Flood, but that the earth was watered from within. I'd have to look up exactly what it says, but in any case the fact that God used a rainbow as a sign to Noe that He would never destroy the earth with another Flood seems to imply that a rainbow had never been seen before on earth. And a rainbow can only be seen when it's raining, so probably it didn't rain before the Flood.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #214 on: August 30, 2021, 03:51:09 PM »
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  • Quote
    But disregarding the age of the universe: The perfect creation that Scripture tells us about in Genesis must've been totally different from the fallen creation we have today, one could say it would've been a completely different creation. There are animals that don't make any sense whatsoever in a perfect creation, they couldn't work that way.

    Why did the velociraptor exist? It's a killing machine. How and why did any carnivores even exist? How did parasites live? Have you ever seen an animal infested by mangoworms? What's that about? It all seems to be about killing, blind, pitiless indifference. What about aging, wearing of bones etc.? The larger or stronger or smarter species survives. What about storms, hurricanes, tornados, tsunamis, volcano eruptions, etc.? I'm having a lot of difficulty imagining the perfect creation.

    You're comparing apples to oranges. 
    1.  Garden of Eden.  No sin, Adam named all the animals, which were friendly to humans and animals didn't kill each other.  There was no death in Eden.  Perfect peace and harmony between humans and nature.
    .
    2.  Post-sin earth.  Humans still ate plants only; not meat, but nature was not as "nice" to humans, this being a punishment for sin.  Did animals still attack and eat each other?  I don't know.  Is this where we get the dinosaurs (if they even existed...i'm not convinced), and super-large predators, due to the revolt of nature, and the necessity of killing and death?  Probably.  God changed Adam and Eve's nature due to sin; it's reasonable to suggest He also changed the nature/instincts of animals.
    .
    3.  Post Flood earth.  God reduced man's lifespan; he would also reduce earth's lifespan (due to the chaos involved in the flood) and increase nature's animosity towards humans.  When animals and nature once got along, now, most animals cannot be trained/loved by humans.  Nature itself (in the form of hurricanes, volcanoes, earthquakes) now was at war with humanity, as a reminder of God's wrath for sin.  Before the flood, there was no such thing as rain, nor earthquakes, hurricanes, etc.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #215 on: August 30, 2021, 03:53:34 PM »
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  • Quote
    Not to nitpick, but we technically don't know if people in general lived for centuries before the Flood. There is no general statement to that effect in the Bible. All we have is a list of patriarchs and how long they lived. So it's possible the people listed lived a miraculous length of time and everyone else lived to be 100 or 120 years or so.
    Name anyone who lived hundreds of years in the bible.  When were they born?  Before the flood.  Is there anyone born AFTER the flood who has lived longer than a 100 or so years?  No.  Therefore, indirectly, the Bible confirms what many Fathers and revelations have told us.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #216 on: August 30, 2021, 04:36:46 PM »
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  • Name anyone who lived hundreds of years in the bible.  When were they born?  Before the flood.  Is there anyone born AFTER the flood who has lived longer than a 100 or so years?  No.  Therefore, indirectly, the Bible confirms what many Fathers and revelations have told us.
    Okay, so I looked it up in Cornelius a Lapide's commentary on Genesis. Thanks! I've been meaning to check this question for a long time, and you just gave me the reason to do so. Seems you're basically right.
    .

    Quote
    Cornelius a Lapide, commentary on Genesis 5:5
    You will ask, why were men so long-lived at that time? Pererius gives different reasons: First, there was an original excellence in the composition and temperament of the body in the first men; second, there was general sobriety that was so great that they used neither meat nor wine; third, there was the first strength of the earth, of fruits and foods, which in the beginning of creation were far more life-giving and nutritious and powerful than now, when they are weakened; fourth, there was the knowledge of Adam, which he communicated to others, by which he knew better than our doctors the power of herbs, fruits, metals, and so on; fifth, there was the good appearance, cooperation and influx of the stars [not sure what that one means, sounds like astrology or something]; sixth, there was the will of God and His secret assistance, Who did this so that men would be more quickly propagated, and learn thoroughly all the arts and sciences through long study, and also so that the first men would hand down to their most remote descendants a faith in the original creation of the world, and a knowledge and worship of God. This is why Lipomanus attributes this longevity more to a miracle of God than to nature.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #217 on: August 30, 2021, 04:51:22 PM »
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  • God changed Adam and Eve's nature due to sin; it's reasonable to suggest He also changed the nature/instincts of animals.

    Some theologians have written on this.  Animals were ordered to God through men, and when men became disordered vis-a-vis God, so did the animals.  That is probably why a saint like St. Francis of Assisi could command animals and get the most wild and ferocious ones to become docile ... because God had all but eliminated the disorder from Origiinal Sin in him.


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #218 on: August 30, 2021, 05:27:54 PM »
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  • Why did the velociraptor exist? It's a killing machine. How and why did any carnivores even exist? How did parasites live? Have you ever seen an animal infested by mangoworms? What's that about?

    Dankwark, can you not see that even the language you are using here is tantamount to fantasy.
    This being was apparently the size of a turkey, and even if it were huge, it was never a “killing” “machine”. Where are you getting your information? fantasy script writers? Sharks exist but they are not killing machines, tigers are not killing machines either. Animals kill to feed themselves (so do we).
    The first ever death was when  the Lord God made for Adam and his wife, garments of skins, and clothed them. (Gen 3:21), this a direct consequence of their loss of innocence through sin. They felt naked, and so He clothed them.


    Quote
     It all seems to be about killing, blind, pitiless indifference. What about aging, wearing of bones etc.? The larger or stronger or smarter species survives. What about storms, hurricanes, tornados, tsunamis, volcano eruptions, etc.? I'm having a lot of difficulty imagining the perfect creation.
    This is exactly the evolutionists do, to make you confused (as you say yourself, in a di-lemma, i.e., of two minds). It was not communism that the Chinese taught to introduce their reign of terror,* which continues today worldwide (including your land and mine). No, they promoted evolution. A philosophy of no hope. A lie which says everything is evolving, which means in people’s minds, improving, when it is plain as the nose on your face that it is getting worse.
    *maybe someone here can remember the missionary bishop who said this. I have a small book by/about him.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #219 on: August 30, 2021, 08:03:39 PM »
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    Okay, so I looked it up in Cornelius a Lapide's commentary on Genesis. 
    Im sure this is where I read it long ago, or from some theologian.  These are not my personal musings. 

    Offline Emile

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #220 on: August 30, 2021, 09:06:40 PM »
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  • *maybe someone here can remember the missionary bishop who said this. I have a small book by/about him.
    Are you thinking of Bishop O'Gara, Nadir?
    https://gwulo.com/node/23963

    https://store.casamaria.org/the-surrender-to-secularism/


    https://catholicism.org/in-china-darwinism-preceded-marxism.html
    A friend of mine just sent me a booklet written by Most Rev. Cuthbert O’Gara, a bishop who had spent two years as a prisoner of the Chinese Communists.  It is entitled The Surrender to Secularism.  O’Gara was a member of the Passionist order and at the time of his arrest in 1951 he was the Bishop of Yuanling, China.
    Born in Ottawa, Ontario, in 1886, Cuthbert received an excellent education both at home from his parents, Martin and Margaret, and in Catholic school.  He graduated from the University of Ottawa in 1910 and from the Grand Seminaire in Montreal with a degree in Canon Law in 1913. Discerning that his vocation was to a religious order he entered the Passionist novitiate in Pittsburgh and, after taking vows, he was assigned to the monastery of Saint Michael in Union City, New Jersey.  Having already completed his seminary training in Montreal he was ordained a priest in 1915.  From 1917-1924 he taught theology, canon law, and holy scripture to Passionist students at Saint Michael’s. It was in 1924 that Father Cuthbert’s contemplative and scholarly life took a turn in a completely different direction. He was assigned to teach in a minor seminary and do missionary work in Shenchow, Northwest Hunan, China.
    When he arrived in Hunan the province was in the midst of a horrible famine.  Feeding the hungry and ministering to the sick and the dying took immediate precedence over every other work.  Thus began the humble and exhausting labor that would accompany almost his entire thirty year apostolate in China.
    In 1930 Father O’Gara was assigned as Prefect Apostolic of Shenchow as part of Rome’s earnest efforts to build the Church’s hierarchical structure in this immense mission land. In 1934 he was named Vicar Apostolic of Yuanling and consecrated Titular Bishop of Elis. During the eight years of the Sino-Japanese War Bishop O’Gara engaged himself with great fervor in tending to those wounded in the sporadic bombings from Japanese air raids.  During the war he earned the title of “Stretcher-Bearer Bishop,” so often would he be seen carrying the wounded to his Mission Hospital. When the stretchers ran out he would carry the maimed on his back. During the long conflict with Japan Bishop O’Gara founded two hospitals and established thirteen refugee camps sheltering and feeding some 100,000 victims. In 1941 the Japanese arrested the bishop and condemned him to death.  The sentence was never carried out as their troops gradually pulled out of China to fight the Allied forces on other Pacific fronts.
    With the end of the war in 1945 came a few years of peace; Yuanling was established as a diocese; and Bishop O’Gara was installed as the Ordinary. Peace soon ended when the Chinese Communists began their onslaught of the northern provinces, taking over the entire country by 1949. At first, after the Reds’ final victory, they did not directly persecute every missionary, although they had killed many before that.  They even tried persuading some to support their cause; that failing, then came threats and intimidation. Bishop O’Gara would never compromise in the defense of his flock and Church property. Finally, in June of 1951, they dragged him before the high altar of his cathedral, stripped him of his episcopal robes and insignia, and cast him into a solitary confinement at his mission where they applied various kinds of sadistic psychological tortures to break him. Bishop Sheen would later laud O’Gara as a man who could “pass the breaking point and not break.” After a brutalizing period of house arrest the bishop was moved to a filthy prison with vermin infested beds and kept alive by a paltry diet of watered down rice. A guard was assigned to watch him twenty-four hours a day. After twenty months of this treatment, which left him unable to walk, he was released, escorted to Hong Kong, and exiled for life. The Passionists were alerted and were waiting for the bishop with a stretcher on the Hong Kong side of the bridge. Two of their priests crossed over the bridge to Shenzhen, received the exiled missionary, and carried him to freedom.
    When he returned to the United States Bishop O’Gara committed himself to preaching and giving lectures not only about Communism but also what he clearly perceived to be a growing cancer of secularism in America. With his first-hand knowledge of Communist doctrine, indoctrination methods, terror tactics, and global goals, it is not surprising that O’Gara was an ardent supporter of Senator Joseph McCarthy.  On November 26, 1954, three days before McCarthy was Judasized by his fellow senators, Bishop O’Gara gave a stirring invocation to a pro-McCarthy rally in Madison Square Garden.
    A year before he died the holy bishop published the treatise I have just read.  It was his last attempt at waking up indifferent American Catholics who, he believed, were on a slippery slope that could only end in atheistic tyranny.  Secularism was preparing the grounds. In this work the bishop revealed a very interesting fact in the opening paragraphs. He explained that when the Red Army took over his diocese in 1949, they were followed by a civilian propaganda corps. These were the real fanatics for the revolution, the zealots committed wholeheartedly to the cause.  All of the people were divided into their professional class and indoctrinated as a group: the doctors, the lawyers, the farmers, the teachers, even down to the coolies.
    “Now what, I ask,” wrote the bishop, “was the first lesson given to the indoctrinees? One might have supposed that this would have been some pearl of wisdom let drop by Marx, Lenin, or Stalin.  Such however was not the case. The very first, the fundamental,  lesson given was man’s descent from the ape – Darwinism!  . . . Darwinism negates God, the human soul, the after-life. Into this vacuum Communism enters as the be-all and the end-all of the intellectual slavery it has created. In the Red prison in which I was held, the slogan, ‘Bring your mind over to us and all your troubles will end,’ was hammered into the minds of the prisoners with brutal and numbing monotony.  Nothing but a groveling h0Ɩ0cαųst of the human person can satiate the lust for dominance of Peking’s Red regime.”
    On May 13, the feast of Our Lady of Fatima, 1968, the valiant Bishop Cuthbert O’Gara died of a heart attack in his monastery of Saint Michael, Union City, New Jersey.
    Currently, a fellow Passionist, Father Rob Carbonneau, Ph.D., is seeking information on Bishop O’Gara so that he might write a fitting biography of the heroic missioner. Some of the information I have in this column comes from his short biography, which can be found here.  The Surrender to Secularism can be ordered from the Cardinal Mindszenty Foundation, P.O. Box 11321, Saint Louis, MO 63105
    “It's easy to be a naive idealist. It's easy to be a cynical realist. It's quite another thing to have no illusions and still hold the inner flame.”
     M.-L. von Franz


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #221 on: August 30, 2021, 11:12:11 PM »
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  • That’s the one, Emile, thank you.

    Bears repeating
    Quote
    “Now what, I ask,” wrote the bishop, “was the first lesson given to the indoctrinees? One might have supposed that this would have been some pearl of wisdom let drop by Marx, Lenin, or Stalin.  Such however was not the case. The very first, the fundamental,  lesson given was man’s descent from the ape – Darwinism!  . . . Darwinism negates God, the human soul, the after-life. Into this vacuum Communism enters as the be-all and the end-all of the intellectual slavery it has created. In the Red prison in which I was held, the slogan, ‘Bring your mind over to us and all your troubles will end,’ was hammered into the minds of the prisoners with brutal and numbing monotony.  Nothing but a groveling h0Ɩ0cαųst of the human person can satiate the lust for dominance of Peking’s Red regime.”
    The same trash that Fr Paul Robinson promotes, whether you call it darwinism or big bang or millions of years of evolution. It is a denial of God’s Word. 
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #222 on: August 30, 2021, 11:19:41 PM »
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  • How sad that some Catholics have less Faith in the Bible than fundamentalist protestants.

    There are lots of fundie prots who earnestly believe in a young earth, and seek out alternate, Bible-friendly explanations to all the ACTUAL EVIDENCE science has turned up.

    And they've done very well, too!
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #223 on: August 31, 2021, 04:46:43 AM »
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  • .
    Not to nitpick, but we technically don't know if people in general lived for centuries before the Flood. There is no general statement to that effect in the Bible. All we have is a list of patriarchs and how long they lived. So it's possible the people listed lived a miraculous length of time and everyone else lived to be 100 or 120 years or so.
    .
    I've always wondered about that. If I have time today, I will try to see what Cornelius a Lapide had to say on this question, if anything.
    .

    Domenico Cassini (1625-1712), for one, using the means given to him by King Louis XIV (1638-1715) sought this history up to his time through study of the oldest and rarest books on the subject he acquired from around the world. Cassini writes:

    ‘There is no room for doubt that Astronomy was invented at the beginning of the World. As there is nothing more noteworthy than the regularity of movement among these great luminous bodies that turn unceasingly around the Earth, it is natural to think that one of the first interests of men was to consider their course and observe their periods. But mere curiosity alone was not solely responsible for leading men to set themselves astronomical speculations, for it can be maintained that necessity as well obliged them. For should one not observe the seasons that vary by the movement of the Sun, it would be impossible to make a success of agriculture; were one to fail to note the suitable times for travel, one could establish no Business; should one not have determined once for all the length of the month and the year, there could be neither order established between civil affairs, nor could days be marked out for religious purposes: hence as agricultural farming, commerce, politics and even religion cannot do without astronomy, it is obvious that men must have been obliged to study this science right from the World’s beginning. Both sacred and secular history confirms this truth. What the Holy Scriptures reveals about the years that the ancient Patriarchs lived up to is proof positive that the first men studied the movements of the stars. For had they not taken account of the exact number of days that last in the varying phases of the Moon which serve to conceal the months; and of the number of months during which the Sun little by little approaches the Zenith and afterwards distances itself from it, marking the changes by increase and diminution of the days, which allow one to establish the length of the year, they could not have noted the number of years each Patriarch had lived, nor the times of their birth and death, as precisely as Moses records it in Genesis. And there certainly was need in this first age of the world to observe the stars with a great deal of care, for by the circuмstances of the history of the great flooding which are also reported in Genesis, one can see that the year from the time of the Deluge was regulated following the movements of the Sun and Moon: which supposes a boundless number of observations. It is yet to be understood how all the application imaginable by the first men studying the sky could have gained them so much knowledge of the movements of the stars, unless their lives were longer than ours. By the living of such long lives gained for them great advances in astronomy. Flavius Josephus (37-100AD) was of the opinion that so necessary was this science that one of the reasons why God granted the first men such a long-lasting life was to facilitate for them the knowledge of the movements of the stars.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. v Young Earth Creationists
    « Reply #224 on: August 31, 2021, 04:48:16 AM »
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  • Cassini continues: ‘Nothing better helps to know the antiquity of astronomy than what Ptolemy (120AD) says of the observations of the skies by which Hipparchus (140BC) reformed this science two thousand years ago. Ptolemy reports that those who were already called astronomers in the days of Hipparchus had observed that the Moon not only moves unequally both by longitude as well as latitude but also that the extent of its inequality, since known as Apogee and Perigee, successively passes through all the degrees of the Zodiac, and that its greatest latitude as well in the north regions as in the regions of the south is transported by the flight of time, by all the degrees of this same circle, in such manner that at each revolution the Moon cuts across the Ecliptic in different degrees. That these astronomers, in order to discover the rules governing these inequalities, compared together many lunar eclipses by which means they sought to find the longest periods of time which being equal among themselves, each contained the same number of unequal months, that Hipparchus, to connect these long periods once found, had chosen from a great number of ancient observations those proper to his purposes; and that having compared them amongst themselves, he noticed that the Sun and the Moon starting from that same point in the sky, would meet 4267 times in 126007 days and one hour after the Moon had made 4612 revolutions by the Zodiac with regard to the fixed stars, less seven degrees and one half, and that it made 4573 returns to the point of its apogee. That nevertheless after this period of 4573 revolutions, the eclipses do not come back to the original size, but only after 5458 months. This witness by Ptolemy shows of course that some of these observations of the skies used by Hipparchus were very old. For a very long interval of time is required and a great number of observations as well to be able to conclude that these very long periods observed together by Hipparchus were uniform; it is not difficult to see the need for many observations to control this uniformity when one thinks that of all the eclipses occurring from 2500 years ago to the present moment there are not two that would be out of conformity with the spaces of these long periods. An objection that could render suspect the antiquity of these observations used by Hipparchus is that about 2200 years from the time this astronomer lived up to the Deluge, which would appear to have buried all monuments of arts and sciences. But one must not be surprised that the memory of the astronomic observations made during the first age of the world, could have lasted even after the Flood, since Josephus recalls that the descendants of Seth to preserve for posterity the memory of the observations of the skies that had been made, sculpted the main ones on two columns, one of stone, the other of brick; that the one of stone survived the Deluge, and that in his time one could see traces of it in Syria. It is therefore established that right from the first age of the world, men had already made great progress in the science of the movement of the stars. One could even say that they were more versed in this lore than they have been since the Flood, if it is true that the year used as a yardstick by the ancient Patriarchs was of the greatness of those composed by the great period of 600 years, as mentioned in the Antiquities of the Jews written by Josephus. We cannot find in the remaining monuments of all the other nations any vestige of this period of 600 years, one of the finest yet to be invented. For supposing the lunar month of 29 days 12 hours 44 minutes and 3 seconds, one finds that 219146 days and a half make 7421 lunar months; and this same number of 219146 days and a half gives 600 solar years each consisting of 365 days, 5 hours, 51 minutes and 36 seconds. If this is the year in use before the Flood, as there appears to be every chance of being so, it must be admitted that the ancient Patriarchs knew already with great precision the movement of the stars; for this lunar month accords, for one second out, with that which has been determined by modern astronomers; and the solar year is more exact than that of Hipparchus and Ptolemy, who assigned the year 365 days, 5 hrs, 55 minutes and 12 seconds. [Today’s tropical year is said to be 365 days, 5 hours, 48 min., 51.6 seconds].     After the Deluge, mankind, having been dispersed throughout the world, the Kings of each people took great care to cultivate astronomy, as the historians of all nations attest. Uranus, King of the peoples that first inhabited the shores of the Atlantic Ocean, was considered to be of the race of the gods because he had a special knowledge of the skies. Zoroaster, King of the Bactrian, is only so well-known because he excelled in astronomy. The first Kings of China acquired for themselves an immortal glory for having made 4000 years ago, shortly after the Flood, many astronomical observations that the Chinese have conserved to this day. Finally, Prometheus, King of Scythia, son of ‘Japer’, that many famous authors hold to have been the same as ‘Japeth’ one of the sons of Noah, taught his ignorant and stupid people the science of the stars; which gave rise among the poets to the saying that he had stolen fire from Heaven, and had brought statues to life. The peoples had such great veneration for these great men that studied astronomy that they rendered them divine honours and dedicated to them temples and altars. But whatever one may make of all these stories whose chronology is perhaps not always very exact, it is certain that soon after the Flood, the Chaldeans observed the skies with much care. Philo attests that Thare, who was born in Chaldea over a hundred years before the death of Noah, was very much given up to astronomy and that he taught it to his son Abraham. Josephus adds that Abraham came to the knowledge of the true God in contemplating the stars; and that having passed from Chaldea into Egypt; he brought the science of astronomy there. This science was held in such esteem at this time that only Kings or Priests made profession of it. Perhaps this is why Virgil, speaking of Dido and Eneus, introduces Lopas who sings what Atlas, King of Mauritania, had taught of the eclipses of the Sun and of the Moon, and of the situation and movements of the stars. Astronomy being held in such esteem in Egypt, it is not surprising that it was taught to Moses who was raised as a Prince Royal of the care of the daughter of Pharaoh. Clement of Alexandria says that Moses made great progress in this science, and that he later taught it to the Jews. Thus astronomy having come from Chaldea into Egypt, passed from Egypt into Judea, and was in a short time carried into Phoenicia and into all the neighbouring countries.
    ‘Up to then astronomers hadn’t yet attempted to apply their speculations for use of navigation. But as the Phoenicians were as entrepreneurial as they were hard working, they began to use the observations of the skies to lead them on long distance voyages. So successful was their profiting from the advantages of astronomy, that they were able to carry commerce into far distant lands, made themselves into masters of the seas, established colonies along the shores of the Mediterranean Sea, and having entered the ocean, took hold of the Isle of Cadis and built there a very magnificent city. The reputation they had of excelling in navigation caused them to be called upon in various kingdoms to conduct the fleets of foreign princes. Salomon gave them the control of the fleet that he sent via the Red Sea into Ophir; whence they brought back much gold and a great store of the same goods that Europeans presently bring back from South Africa and the Indies. Nechao II, King of Egypt, also employed them to conduct his fleet, which made a much longer voyage according to Herodote: for he says that having followed the Red Sea coast it entered the ocean, crossed the Torrid Zone, toured Africa and came back to Egypt via the Mediterranean Sea.’[1]


    [1]J. D. Cassini: The Progress of Astronomy and its Use for Geography and in Navigation, Paris, 1693, pp.1, 5.