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Author Topic: Flat Earth is a Psyop  (Read 45715 times)

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Online Freind

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Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
« Reply #105 on: December 12, 2025, 05:55:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 12, 2025, 05:47:30 PM
    Moral certainty is inherently subjective.  We're waiting for the Church to decide.  When She does, then it's objective.  Before that, it's subjective.

    That the Catholic Church is the true Church is objective. That is the certainty of Faith. As well is the Assumption and that nobody can find the bodily remains of Our Lady on earth.
    You understand?
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #106 on: December 12, 2025, 06:03:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Freind on December 12, 2025, 05:35:21 PM
    But truth is OBJECTIVE. Reason is objective. Logic is Objective. That's what Catholic books write about....objective truth.
    Yes of course.

    My only point is how does each "subject" harmonize with the objective truth?

    They need to have moral convictions (and obey them) that propel them towards truth.

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    Online Freind

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #107 on: December 12, 2025, 06:05:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on December 12, 2025, 06:03:27 PM
    Yes of course.

    My only point is how does each "subject" harmonize with the objective truth?

    They need to have moral convictions (and obey them) that propel them towards truth.

    Yes, as with any Protestant reading the objective truth.
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #108 on: December 12, 2025, 06:11:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 12, 2025, 05:47:30 PM
    We're waiting for the Church to decide.  When She does, then it's objective.  Before that, it's subjective.
    Correct.

    That is why each subject MUST be taught what the objectively true teaching is about the incompatibility of heresy with office holding and the automatic loss of office w/o needing an official declaration.

    From that one fact alone and the evidences that are MANIFEST and PUBLIC of the heresies of the putative popes, one can take the leap that faith requires while being morally certain they are on the right path - even if wrong for some reason they could not fully understand.

    So, you can see from this example that similar to understanding these men are non-popes, the FEers approach their decision to choose to believe in FE from the SAME impetus. The need to reconcile their convictions and moral certainty to the objective evidences they see and calculate concerning FE.
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #109 on: December 12, 2025, 06:13:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Freind on December 12, 2025, 06:05:26 PM
    Yes, as with any Protestant reading the objective truth.
    Prot: "I have a moral conviction that "X" should be believed/acted upon because it is my truth."

    Catholic: "I have a moral conviction that "X" should be believed/acted upon because it harmonizes with the objective truth of the Catholic Faith."

    Prot on his way to converting: "I have a moral conviction that the Catholic Church is the true Church - now I need act and convert."
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    Online Freind

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #110 on: December 12, 2025, 06:19:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on December 12, 2025, 06:13:17 PM
    Prot: "I have a moral conviction that "X" should be believed/acted upon because it is my truth."

    Catholic: "I have a moral conviction that "X" should be believed/acted upon because it harmonizes with the objective truth of the Catholic Faith."

    Prot on his way to converting: "I have a moral conviction that the Catholic Church is the true Church - now I need act and convert."

    All Catholic books state OBJECTIVE truth. The authors don't refrain just because there are people who are expected to struggle with it.
    It is objective truth that a true pope cannot promote to the universal Church anything harmful to Faith or Morals.
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #111 on: December 12, 2025, 06:23:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: Freind on December 12, 2025, 06:19:52 PM
    All Catholic books state OBJECTIVE truth. The authors don't refrain just because there are people who are expected to struggle with it.
    It is objective truth that a true pope cannot promote to the universal Church anything harmful to Faith or Morals.
    Yes, and that objective truth acts like a seed on those of good will - and leads them to be CONVICTED TO ACT upon that truth (moral certitude).

    Once the act of separating from the false Popes is consummate in its entirety (and this is KEY) then one is in full possession of the objective truth in this matter and the subject has become reconciled to the objective truth in this case, as you say, "    that a true pope cannot promote to the universal Church anything harmful to Faith or Morals."

    Then by using deductive reasoning it is easy to take the leap with moral certainty that these heretics are NOT true Popes and embrace the certain teaching by fully living it. 
    It is not about how we "Catholic better than anyone else" It is only about reconciling the subject to the objective truth and moral certainty is the lynch pin that facilitates action.
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    Online Freind

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #112 on: December 12, 2025, 06:27:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on December 12, 2025, 06:23:23 PM
    Yes, and that objective truth acts like a seed on those of good will - and leads them to be CONVICTED TO ACT upon that truth (moral certainty).

    Once the act of separating from the false Popes is consummate in its entirety (and this is KEY) then one is in full possession of the objective truth in this matter and the subject has become reconciled to the objective truth in this case, as you say, "    that a true pope cannot promote to the universal Church anything harmful to Faith or Morals."

    There is ALWAYS the subjective element to accepting the objective truth. But we MUST STILL PRESENT THE OBJECTIVE TRUTH AND SAY IT IS.
    The objective truth is that nobody can find Our Lady's mortal remains on earth in some archaeological site.
    Likewise, the objective truth is that papal claimants since Vatican II cannot be true popes if they promote the heresies of V2 to the Church.
    Not a dogma, but as certain as a dogma, so the certainty is as certain as the Faith itself.
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #113 on: December 12, 2025, 06:32:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Freind on December 12, 2025, 06:27:30 PM
    There is ALWAYS the subjective element to accepting the objective truth. But we MUST STILL PRESENT THE OBJECTIVE TRUTH AND SAY IT IS.
    I agree.

    And I have argued the same above about the need to convince/compel others as an act of necessary charity.

    But, the subject is having difficulty reconciling his actions with the objective truth. So, they most be shown that this is the case, which becomes all the more difficult if one has substituted this issue that pertains to one's salvation for another that doesn't (FE). Not saying everyone is doing that. Maybe no one is doing that. Maybe some are. The similarities between the two issues are just too glaringly alike to overlook (IMO). Thus I am on this "Flat Earth is a Psyop" thread arguing that it actually is a Psyop of sorts - at the minimum in some cases - a potential Psyop one is running on their own subconscience.
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    Online Freind

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #114 on: December 12, 2025, 06:35:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on December 12, 2025, 06:32:17 PM
    I agree.

    And I have argued the same above about the need to convince/compel others as an act of necessary charity.

    But, the subject is having difficulty reconciling his actions with the objective truth. So, they most be shown that this is the case, which becomes all the more difficult if one has substituted this issue that pertains to one's salvation for another that doesn't (FE). Not saying everyone is doing that. Maybe no one is doing that. Maybe some are. The similarities between the two issues are just too glaringly similar to overlook (IMO). Thus I am on this "Flat Earth is a Psyop" thread arguing that it actually is a Psyop of sorts - at the minimum in some cases - a potential Psyop one is running on their own subconscience.


    Just press for a map. Keeping pressing. They never can present one. They look silly.
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #115 on: December 12, 2025, 06:44:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Freind on December 12, 2025, 06:35:34 PM

    Just press for a map. Keeping pressing. They never can present one.
    Whoa!

    Another one!

    They can't present any teaching that says a public, manifest heretic who pushes his apostasy still remains pope.

    FE: No definitive map yet.
    R&R: No definitive teaching to validate their actions of adhering to a manifest, public heretic as pope as being the Catholic thing to do.

    So, a FEer has one of two choices:

    1) Say maps will get figured out later by cartographers/scientists/astronomers, etc. so we don't really have to worry about them now.

    2) Admit that no map exists because it is incompatible with objective truth (though I know same can be said about globe earth maps too).

    Now compare this to...

    Concerning the papal question R&R have one of two choices:

    1) Say the judgment will get figured out later by the "Church", so we don't really have to worry about that right now because we can, "do nothing about it."

    2) Admit that the objective teaching is already there and always has been about what is certain truth concerning how to view/act towards public, manifest heretics and therefore pave the way for the moral certitude they need to ACT by separating from the communion of the false pope.

    There is some back and forth going on as certitude builds in the mind (as long as one doesn't repress it).

    If they do willingly repress it, this is where the self-imposed "Psyop" comes in.

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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #116 on: December 12, 2025, 06:58:07 PM »
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    • :jester:  The shape of the earth is not on the same level as the papal question nor the Assumption.  :facepalm:
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #117 on: December 12, 2025, 07:02:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 12, 2025, 06:58:07 PM
    :jester:  The shape of the earth is not on the same level as the papal question
    I 100% agree. Nor have I argued that. I argue it is similar in many uncanny ways ACCIDENTALLY. But those accidental ways may be no "accident" (self-perpetuating Psyop one is running on themselves to DISTRACT and cope with the papal question which is on a much higher level and therefore harder and more painstaking to resolve in ones conscience). So a substitute is necessary to escape the mental gymnastics > Enter FE (for some anyways perhaps).

    Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 12, 2025, 06:58:07 PM
    nor the Assumption.  :facepalm:
    Here I 100% disagree. Papal infallibility, the indefectability of Church, and Marian dogmas are all equally important.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #118 on: December 12, 2025, 07:36:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: Freind on December 12, 2025, 06:19:52 PM
    All Catholic books state OBJECTIVE truth. The authors don't refrain just because there are people who are expected to struggle with it.
    It is objective truth that a true pope cannot promote to the universal Church anything harmful to Faith or Morals.

    It is also objective truth that the Catholic Church was founded upon Peter, who received Christ's promise that "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it." and that part of the FUNDAMENTAL CONSTITUTION of the Catholic Church would be a visible head on earth, a vicar, a Pope.
    It is obvious and common sense that a 63 year interregnum -- with no end in sight -- would seem to falsify (if not make a mockery of) Christ's promise.

    A pope is not just "a nice extra" to have.

    Whatever solution turns out to be the truth (spoiler: after God reveals it, that is!) will have to address both of these truths.

    So we're even. Welcome to the supernaturally mysterious Crisis in the Church that has defeated every man alive from 1970 to present. What of it?
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    Online Freind

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    Re: Flat Earth is a Psyop
    « Reply #119 on: December 12, 2025, 07:40:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on December 12, 2025, 07:36:36 PM
    It is also objective truth that the Catholic Church was founded upon Peter, who received Christ's promise that "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it." and that part of the FUNDAMENTAL CONSTITUTION of the Catholic Church would be a visible head on earth, a vicar, a Pope.

    A pope is not just "a nice extra" to have.

    Whatever solution turns out to be the truth (spoiler: after God reveals it, that is!) will have to address both of these truths.

    So we're even. Welcome to the supernaturally mysterious Crisis in the Church that has defeated every man alive from 1970 to present. What of it?

    Nothing mysterious about it.  The Church says a pope who is an explicit heretic ceases to be pope, ipso facto. Do you reject that?
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