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Author Topic: Flat Earth Deception  (Read 5029 times)

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Offline klasG4e

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Re: Flat Earth Deception
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2018, 08:05:50 PM »
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  • .
    I happened to jump in right there and thought you were talking about this:
    .
    (Linked as "Roman Catholic Beliefs" on flatearthdeception.com)
    Good find Neil.  In the future I will only recommend the site with a caveat about the link.    Strange, that on their home page they give such a plug to the great Catholic apologist Robert Sungenis' work on geocentrism.


    Offline aryzia

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #16 on: May 02, 2018, 07:41:44 AM »
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  • Good find Neil.  In the future I will only recommend the site with a caveat about the link.    Strange, that on their home page they give such a plug to the great Catholic apologist Robert Sungenis' work on geocentrism.
    More garbage.


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #17 on: May 02, 2018, 09:58:44 AM »
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  • More garbage.
    Anyway, I'm still waiting for your best flat Earth website to with http://flatearthdeception.com/

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #18 on: May 02, 2018, 10:13:50 AM »
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  • Anyway, I'm still waiting for your best flat Earth website to with http://flatearthdeception.com/

    I took a look at the 'Bible' section of that website. It quotes from the King James Bible which means that the guy who owns the site is a Protestant. Sometimes Protestants can be right. But all that section of the website is is one Protestant's interpretation of Scripture. He doesn't cite Church Fathers. But of course some Protestants don't like to do that (though some will cite them).

    If you want to hang onto some Prot guy's interpretation of Scripture, that's your choice. I'll go with the Church fathers.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #19 on: May 02, 2018, 10:37:11 AM »
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  • I took a look at the 'Bible' section of that website. It quotes from the King James Bible which means that the guy who owns the site is a Protestant. Sometimes Protestants can be right. But all that section of the website is is one Protestant's interpretation of Scripture. He doesn't cite Church Fathers. But of course some Protestants don't like to do that (though some will cite them).

    If you want to hang onto some Prot guy's interpretation of Scripture, that's your choice. I'll go with the Church fathers.
    Anyway, I'm still waiting for your best flat Earth website to with http://flatearthdeception.com/


    Search For Truth, Not To Defend A Belief
    After a lot of research, I believe that the enemy has created a deception regarding the design of the universe.
    The Illuminati card game has a Flat Earth card that says “People laugh, but the flat earthers know something”.
    Quote
    What flat earthers know is that the earth isn’t spinning, and it’s not flying through space orbiting the sun.  Astronomers and scientists have not proved that the Earth is moving.
    And from our Earthly perspective, the planets and stars appear the same regardless of whether it’s the Copernican heliocentrism view or the Tychonic geocentrism view.
    The deception is that the enemy has caused people to promote the heliocentric view based on philosophy, to not involve a Creator in the explanation of the design of the universe.
    Quote
    And that led to the big bang theory, the theory of evolution, etc.; all of which steals glory from our Creator, and deceives people.
    It wasn’t until scientific probes produced data about the radiation of the expanding universe, and the orientation of the quasars and radio galaxies; that researches were able to see that all of those things were pointing back to Earth as the center of the universe.
    These findings were published in a book titled ‘Geocentrism 101 – An Introduction into the  Science of  Geocentric Cosmology‘ in 2013, and then explained in a movie called The Principle in late 2014.
    Quote
    Then shortly afterward the flat earth theory was aggressively pushed on YouTube and Facebook, to try to cover over the evidence, and to cause people to dismiss anyone who teaches that the Earth is geocentric.
    The enemy has created a false dichotomy, so that the debate is between the geocentric flat earth vs. the heliocentric globe earth; so that people don’t consider the third option, that of the geocentric globe earth.
    Quote
    It puts the Earth at the center of the universe, proving a Designer/Creator, and explains why stars perfectly circle the Earth; while maintaining the laws of physics of the globe earth and the surrounding elaborate universe, which is a precision time-piece.
    If you’re a flat-earther, you can decide to click away, thinking that you know the truth; but I would hope that your goal is to find the whole truth, not to defend a position.
    Please read the geocentric Earth page, to see the scientific research that proves that we are at the center of the universe.
    Why would the enemy create the flat earth deception?
    Quote
    Because most flat earthers are sharing truth in other areas, whether it’s about coming out of churchianity, about the Illuminati and their agenda, etc.; so by getting them to believe in the flat earth, they cause family and friends to stop listening to all that they teach.
    On this page I will address the major challenges that I’ve found with the flat earth theory, which are explained in more detail on the other pages.



    Offline Meg

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #20 on: May 02, 2018, 10:40:35 AM »
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  • Anyway, I'm still waiting for your best flat Earth website to with http://flatearthdeception.com/

    You're waiting for the best flat earth website to fight with the protestant website above? 

    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #21 on: May 02, 2018, 10:43:12 AM »
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  • You're waiting for the best flat earth website to fight with the protestant website above?
    Whatever!  After all this time I'm still waiting for anything, any website at all.  Surely you flatearthers must have one that you can present.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #22 on: May 02, 2018, 10:46:13 AM »
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  • Whatever!  After all this time I'm still waiting for anything, any website at all.  Surely you flatearthers must have one that you can present.

    I'll think you'll be waiting for awhile. Who wants to spend time "fighting" with a Prot website? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #23 on: May 02, 2018, 10:48:38 AM »
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  • If you want to hang onto some Prot guy's interpretation of Scripture, that's your choice. I'll go with the Church fathers.
    But you are not "going with the Church Fathers".  You are ignoring some who believed in spherical earth and misinterpreting some statements as support for flat earth that aren't really.  

    There was no consensus on flat earth among the Fathers and the view did not persist in the history of the Church. The belief disappeared for over a thousand years, including the entire time that the Church was a secular power. It is not reasonable to portray flat earth as a Catholic view.

    When belief in flat earth re-emerged in the mid 1900s it was among Protestant heretics and that is still a major source of flat earth proponents, along with neopagan weirdos.  The idea has little support among traditional Catholics and none at all from traditional Catholic clergy.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #24 on: May 02, 2018, 10:53:16 AM »
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  • I took a look at the 'Bible' section of that website. It quotes from the King James Bible which means that the guy who owns the site is a Protestant. Sometimes Protestants can be right. But all that section of the website is is one Protestant's interpretation of Scripture. He doesn't cite Church Fathers. But of course some Protestants don't like to do that (though some will cite them).

    If you want to hang onto some Prot guy's interpretation of Scripture, that's your choice. I'll go with the Church fathers.
    Notice Meg, the globalists have exactly one side to their argument because they are afraid of flat earth.  Conversely, we were once heliocentric believers and know most of the so-called science behind that theory. Same with globe geocentric theory which is nothing less than heliocentrism with a stationary globe.  In fact, the latter model is the easiest to debunk because it cannot account for day/night, or seasons among other things because the distances the stars, sun and moon have to travel would not be possible in a twenty four hour period under the most fantastic circuмstances.  At least the heliocentric theory used to pretend that the rotating earth made the 24 hr day possible as it created a counter movement and gravity that balanced perfectly with outer forces. :facepalm:  
    The global geocentric has nothing to explain days and seasons or explain why oceans stick to the globe; except "gravity", which is altogether hogwash.  Beyond this, the globalists do not know or understand the flat earth.  They see a few quotes and attempt to debunk them one at a time, but never see the full picture because they are dead set against it since it infringes on their need to fit in with the popular crowd.  As they call us stupid, they prove my point. Notice they dismiss Popes, Fathers, Scripture, reason, science, whatever, because they have a guy, or they have popular consensus.  But when it comes to a logical explanation they have nothing.  They parrot stuff. Only.  Often they turn to random blogs, or post a bunch of gibberish they don't even understand, while the whole of their argument is utterly contradictory and without an ounce of consideration or understanding which is obvious in their argumentation.  They are totally unable to look at flat earth independent of their indoctrination.  The only one that even remotely seems to dig around is Cassini.  But I haven't volleyed with him long enough to understand his problem with flat earth.  Methinks its probably an attachment to Sungenis and company.            

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #25 on: May 02, 2018, 10:56:35 AM »
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  • But you are not "going with the Church Fathers".  You are ignoring some who believed in spherical earth and misinterpreting some statements as support for flat earth that aren't really.  

    There was no consensus on flat earth among the Fathers and the view did not persist in the history of the Church. The belief disappeared for over a thousand years, including the entire time that the Church was a secular power. It is not reasonable to portray flat earth as a Catholic view.

    When belief in flat earth re-emerged in the mid 1900s it was among Protestant heretics and that is still a major source of flat earth proponents, along with neopagan weirdos.  The idea has little support among traditional Catholics and none at all from traditional Catholic clergy.
    Sorry, its the other way around.  Some Fathers did not believe in flat earth, but they were the ones who did not fully explain the globe.  Was it moving? Inhabited on the other side?  Jerusalem in the center?  Compared with the liturgy?  How it was separated from the pagan view of the same belief that the Church later condemned?  You're premise is full of holes.  


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #26 on: May 02, 2018, 11:01:26 AM »
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  • I really appreciate cassini's contributions because he is a thoughtful, well-informed poster who holds the traditional Catholic view - geocentric, spherical earth.  I am pleased that there are some others here also representing that perspective.  It is appropriate for this view to be prominent on a traditional Catholic forum.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #27 on: May 02, 2018, 11:04:59 AM »
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  • Anyway, I'm still waiting for your best flat Earth website to with http://flatearthdeception.com/

    Even protestants are capable of speaking the truth just as even a broken clock can be right twice a day.  Forget about that website if you want to.  The question remains -- what's your best flatearth website.  Come on guys and gals where is it ...or are you still trying to find one? :sleep:

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #28 on: May 02, 2018, 11:13:49 AM »
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  • Notice Meg, the globalists have exactly one side to their argument because they are afraid of flat earth.  Conversely, we were once heliocentric believers and know most of the so-called science behind that theory. Same with globe geocentric theory which is nothing less than heliocentrism with a stationary globe.  In fact, the latter model is the easiest to debunk because it cannot account for day/night, or seasons among other things because the distances the stars, sun and moon have to travel would not be possible in a twenty four hour period under the most fantastic circuмstances.  At least the heliocentric theory used to pretend that the rotating earth made the 24 hr day possible as it created a counter movement and gravity that balanced perfectly with outer forces. :facepalm:  
    The global geocentric has nothing to explain days and seasons or explain why oceans stick to the globe; except "gravity", which is altogether hogwash.  Beyond this, the globalists do not know or understand the flat earth.  They see a few quotes and attempt to debunk them one at a time, but never see the full picture because they are dead set against it since it infringes on their need to fit in with the popular crowd.  As they call us stupid, they prove my point. Notice they dismiss Popes, Fathers, Scripture, reason, science, whatever, because they have a guy, or they have popular consensus.  But when it comes to a logical explanation they have nothing.  They parrot stuff. Only.  Often they turn to random blogs, or post a bunch of gibberish they don't even understand, while the whole of their argument is utterly contradictory and without an ounce of consideration or understanding which is obvious in their argumentation.  They are totally unable to look at flat earth independent of their indoctrination.  The only one that even remotely seems to dig around is Cassini.  But I haven't volleyed with him long enough to understand his problem with flat earth.  Methinks its probably an attachment to Sungenis and company.            

    Just a few thoughts on the good points above. Yes, we were once heliocentric believers. So we know that view already. But the globers don't take the time to really understand FE, and what it really is. 

    You mention that geocentrism doesn't explain the seasons or day/night. Since geocentrism still believes in the model that the sun, moon, and stars are at a great distance (like heliocentrism believes), this cannot be true since, as you say, the distance that they would have to travel around the earth (especially the sun) would not be possible in a 24 hour period. I tried to point this out to Neil once, but he didn't agree that it would be impossible for the sun, which is supposedly 93,000,000 miles away, to travel around the earth in a 24 hour period.

    I agree that the need to believe in a globe earth, for them, may be based on the need to fit in with the popular crowd. Or, the "educated" crowd, more like. 

    Yes, Cassini does dig around at least. I think that he's tied to the Catholic scientist Geovanni Cassini, and a little branch of science known as "geodesy." He's at least an honest guy. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Flat Earth Deception
    « Reply #29 on: May 02, 2018, 11:56:25 AM »
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  • You mention that geocentrism doesn't explain the seasons or day/night. Since geocentrism still believes in the model that the sun, moon, and stars are at a great distance (like heliocentrism believes), this cannot be true since, as you say, the distance that they would have to travel around the earth (especially the sun) would not be possible in a 24 hour period. I tried to point this out to Neil once, but he didn't agree that it would be impossible for the sun, which is supposedly 93,000,000 miles away, to travel around the earth in a 24 hour period.

     

    Actually geocentrism does explain the seasons since the universe tilts back and forth up and down over a one year period of time.  It is not the Earth which tilts, but the universe itself.

    When I was introduced to geocentrism the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around was how in the world could it be possible for the entire universe to go around the Earth every 24 hours.  Well actually, it's  slightly less time  --23 hours, 56 minutes and 4 seconds and is referred to as a sidereal day as opposed to the solar day of exactly 24 hours.  The solar day is the time it takes for the sun to go completely around the Earth.  The immense distances were mind boggling.

    Without going into all the complex scientific details the explanation lies in the fact that space is not empty.  It is filled by the aether which -- and this seems paradoxical -- is incredibly dense while at the same time being incredibly fluid.  The aether carries all the heavenly bodies around the Earth while at the same time allowing them to move freely about. 

    Indeed, the science itself actually would allow the universe to travel around the Earth even much faster than it does!