Reports: Vatican planning to enforce a ‘final’ ban of Traditional Latin Mass, likely on July 16Wonder if Francis will keel over the day before. At some point, God will intervene.
Wonder if Francis will keel over the day before. At some point, God will intervene.
Reports: Vatican planning to enforce a ‘final’ ban of Traditional Latin Mass, likely on July 16
Sources told Rorate Caeli that Vatican officials want to ban the Latin Mass in a manner ‘as wide, final, and irreversible as possible,’ and a source informed LifeSiteNews that this ban is likely to be issued on the three-year anniversary of Traditionis Custodes.
(LifeSiteNews) — Several “credible” sources informed a traditional Catholic media outlet that the Vatican is planning to issue a docuмent “banning” the Traditional Latin Mass, and a source informed LifeSiteNews that this will likely occur on July 16.
Let all everywhere adopt and observe what has been handed down by the Holy Roman Church, the Mother
and Teacher of the other churches, and let Masses not be sung or read according to any other formula than
that of this Missal published by Us. This ordinance applies henceforth, now, and forever, throughout all the
provinces of the Christian world, to all patriarchs, cathedral churches, collegiate and parish churches, be they
secular or religious, both of men and of women – even of military orders – and of churches or chapels
without a specific congregation in which conventual Masses are sung aloud in choir or read privately in
accord with the rites and customs of the Roman Church. This Missal is to be used by all churches, even by
those which in their authorization are made exempt, whether by Apostolic indult, custom, or privilege, or even if by oath or official confirmation of the Holy See, or have their rights and faculties guaranteed to them by any other manner whatsoever.
There will probably emerge an alliance of neo-conservative Latin Mass observers. Burke, Snyder, Sarah, Fraternity of Saint Peter. But doctrine will be lacking. IMO
I'm in catechism and not yet baptized so I'm admittedly a neophyte when it comes to everything, but something has never made sense.
If the Novus Ordo is preaching what is essentially religious pluralism, then what would it matter to them that people want the TLM? If you're going to tell me that Jєωs, buddhists, protestants and even atheists can get to heaven, then why would I care what you have to say about people that are holding the same mass that's been in place for nearly 2000 years? If you're wrong and I'm right, I go to heaven. If I'm wrong and you're right, I still go to heaven.
It has to be about obedience. The salvation of souls is lex suprema, not obedience.
I'm not going to stop my journey through Catholicism, but man did I ever pick a time to join. :laugh1:
Forcing a choice on fence sitters is an issue that affects a relatively small number of Catholics and is limited to within the Church. There are splits within religious groups all the time. They affect a limited number of people. If Francis wants his ruling to have global influence, it needs to have much more at stake than yet another religious split. A full on ban of the Latin Mass would require the support of the globalists and the elite, meaning, the RSP as Bp. W. calls them. It would need power of law on the multinational and global scale to have a truly global impact, as in, attendance at Latin Mass at risk of your freedom, your money, your ability to function in society, and ultimately, your life. He doesn’t (yet) possess such power to enact life and death laws. A ban on diocesan based TLM will have no effect on me. Many traditionalists already hear Mass and receive Sacraments outside the official n.o. structure. Excommunicating trads who are not part of the official diocesan system is like getting fired from a job you don’t hold, or being expelled from a school you don’t attend. Meaningless.
I'm in catechism and not yet baptized so I'm admittedly a neophyte when it comes to everything, but something has never made sense.Here is why: for the modernist heretical sect (called the Conciliar church by Card Benelli in a letter to Abp Lefebvre), everyone is somehow in communion with the Conciliar church except for Catholics.
If the Novus Ordo is preaching what is essentially religious pluralism, then what would it matter to them that people want the TLM? If you're going to tell me that Jєωs, buddhists, protestants and even atheists can get to heaven, then why would I care what you have to say about people that are holding the same mass that's been in place for nearly 2000 years? If you're wrong and I'm right, I go to heaven. If I'm wrong and you're right, I still go to heaven.
It has to be about obedience. The salvation of souls is lex suprema, not obedience.
I'm not going to stop my journey through Catholicism, but man did I ever pick a time to join. :laugh1:
Thus far they've been able to obliterate the Faith and the Mass and the Sacraments through the mechanism of compromise and obedience.Assuming the so-called "final ban of the TLM" actually happens, I agree that the large percentage of the NO-TLM goers will either go back to the NO or go to the SSPX.
I see no reason to think the indulters won't continue to obey or stay inside the novus ordo, including by switching to the SSPX. They have trained themselves to believe that no matter what the impostors do, they are the hierarchy. They have subjectively morphed the Church by force of mental habit, and so cannot comprehend the objective duty to flee the novus ordo, under all of its guises.
Wait til the impostors blatantly reframe the papacy. Peter K. has been preparing the minds of the compromisers for this next move a long time now. They are all mentally ready for a new definition of "pope." In fact, their warped consciences need a new definition of pope to relieve built up moral pressure.
They will continue to grow worse and worse, one compromise always begetting another.
I don't buy that switching to the SSPX would be tantamount to "staying inside the Novus Ordo". While they've gradually become infected with various Modernist tendencies (depending on the priest), this is like the guy at Traditio claiming that the 1962 Tridentine Missal is "half Novus Ordo". Not just yet anyway.
Once they ban the Tridentine Mass, the remaining Motarians who don't have access to an FSSP chapel will be forced to get off the fence and decide whether they're going over to SSPX or remaining with the Conciliar Church. There won't be any more of the "have your cake and eat it too" situations (again, outside of FSSP), i.e. "have your Tridentine Mass and be in the Conciliar Church too".
Once this happens, the next phase will likely be to introduce some additional modernizations into FFSP, and continuing talks to re-absorb SSPX as well. Alternatively, or additionally, the plan will likely be to introduce some Trojan horse non-bishops, ala Huonder, for the upcoming "consecrations" and render the SSPX ordinations going forward invalid.
Well, you see, I believe that the SSPX has become "regularized," only it has done so in secret. It's like a couple that eloped, but hasn't yet gotten up the guts to tell the parents.I don't think you're far off. I think the difference between your and my thinking is I just think it will be out in the open after this ban by officially making it their new indult.
How is it that a) they now have faculties for the Sacrament of Penance and marriages; and b) they are categorically obedient on the question of consecrating new bishops (they should have made new bishops a long, long time ago); and c) they let a novus ordo "bishop" corrupt their Holy Oils; and d) they are letting laymen in priest costumes service their chapels; and e) they kept their mouths shut when fiducia supplicans and other monstrosities came out; and f) their priests and bishops use novus ordo "churches" for sacramental ceremonies?
It think it is logically impossible that they simultaneously hold on to their independence and do these gravely sinful things. It is also logically impossible that the novus ordo has given what it's given without getting something in return. SSPX "disobedience" died somewhere before 2013. They have submitted. They are formal subjects of the false hierarchy - of the false church; and worse, they are hiding it from their donor base. That's the lowest form of low.
And it's no coincidence that, having done a very dirty deed in the dark, while clothing themselves as angels of light, their dirty little scandals, nay their integral corruptions, are now oozing out in public like hot brie in puff pastry.
God sees in secret.
I believe they cut a deal with Ratzinger. His work now being done, he retired. This new thrust is the next phase in one single plan. I think the SSPX is now part and parcel of the conciliar beast; and it cannot get out now, even if it tried. I think they've been Epsteined in some way.
I'm in catechism and not yet baptized so I'm admittedly a neophyte when it comes to everything, but something has never made sense.It makes perfect sense when you realize the Novus Ordo sect is headed by satan with the goal of exterminating Catholicism.
If the Novus Ordo is preaching what is essentially religious pluralism, then what would it matter to them that people want the TLM? If you're going to tell me that jews, buddhists, protestants and even atheists can get to heaven, then why would I care what you have to say about people that are holding the same mass that's been in place for nearly 2000 years? If you're wrong and I'm right, I go to heaven. If I'm wrong and you're right, I still go to heaven.
It has to be about obedience. The salvation of souls is lex suprema, not obedience.
I'm not going to stop my journey through Catholicism, but man did I ever pick a time to join. :laugh1:
They'll probably go to the SSPX. I know people who attend the one diocesan Mass in the Diocese of St. Cloud and their only hurdle to the SSPX is them being (in their words) "not in communion". This will change that for them.
They'll probably go to the SSPX. I know people who attend the one diocesan Mass in the Diocese of St. Cloud and their only hurdle to the SSPX is them being (in their words) "not in communion". This will change that for them.Why would that change things for them? Why would the "not in communion" change just because there is no other convenient TLM option? Unless of course the SSPX is officially "brought into the fold" somehow.
Wonder if Francis will keel over the day before. At some point, God will intervene.Bergolio is part of our Chastisement.
I don't think you're far off. I think the difference between your and my thinking is I just think it will be out in the open after this ban by officially making it their new indult.