Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Feeney the nut job  (Read 32620 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ihsv

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 742
  • Reputation: +1031/-133
  • Gender: Male
Re: Feeney the nut job
« Reply #75 on: October 17, 2024, 09:57:17 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
  • When a priest allows such behavior he has put his stamp of approval on it.  The people involved were probably misguided naive people who were reacting to the crisis in the Church.  I know many people that bought farmland in rural areas because Russia was going to invade. They were hedging in case of world War III and the Fatima messages.

    Are you capable of rational discussion or sticking to the topic or answering the question of the name of the sin that was committed and where the Church has forbidden the rearing of children in a convent or monastery? At this point, you are only heaping your Purgatory flames higher and higher, at best. God have mercy. You don't get to manufacture sins, accuse other Catholics of being a cult, and run your keyboard without impunity. Your ignorance of the facts is now manifest for all. But thank you, sincerely, for the opportunity to set the facts straight and to publicly demonstrate the injustice of what actually happened to Fr. Feeney for all to see. 
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12256
    • Reputation: +7761/-2358
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #76 on: October 17, 2024, 09:57:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    Forced on the children.  That's unjust no matter how you sugar coat it. 
    If you're going to criticize families for following Fr Feeney then you should also criticize all the families who followed +ABL/sspx and moved out to St Mary's Kansas.  In the beginning, this place was in the middle of nowhere, and families moved from all over the country to live around this church.  Even today, it's a super rural area, with limited jobs and a hard way of life.  Some families live in trailers to be close to church.  Those that have houses, some of them have 10+ children with only 2 bedrooms (horror!).  Most non-Trads would consider this 'child abuse'.  It's no different than what people did with Fr Feeney.


    Offline Gunter

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 312
    • Reputation: +128/-81
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #77 on: October 17, 2024, 10:06:21 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • So the Church has some instruction were families can choose this sort of life.  Please educate me where married couples can go to legally enter such arrangements. 
    Wouldn't it be easier to make a law against marriage or that children must be given to the religous.

    Offline ihsv

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 742
    • Reputation: +1031/-133
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #78 on: October 17, 2024, 10:12:33 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • So the Church has some instruction were families can choose this sort of life.  Please educate me where married couples can go to legally enter such arrangements. 
    Wouldn't it be easier to make a law against marriage or that children must be given to the religous.
    You are a first class constructor of straw men AND a drama queen. Second class dodger of honest questions. Congratulations, and keep it coming. Any honest soul can see the nature of those who continue to slander a holy priest and you exonerate Father further with every post. It's pretty awesome.

    For those following along, it has been repeated over and over that there was no objective sin, historical examples from Church history were given, and nothing was forced or commanded. But Gunter is desperate for his poop to stick. This is like the criticism of those saints who self-flagellated. It is recommended or the ideal for everyone? No. That's not what the Church says. But you also don't get to call those whom God called to higher sacrifice "nut jobs." 
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline Gunter

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 312
    • Reputation: +128/-81
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #79 on: October 17, 2024, 10:20:25 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • Actually you have to answer the tough questions in order to come to the truth of any matter.  I think that's the prudent way to approach controversy. 
    Because innocent people can go down roads they didn't expect to go down.  
    Fr Feeney was not/ is not an authority on Bod/Bob and he lacked the authority to start a religious order and dispense people from their marital vows.


    Offline ihsv

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 742
    • Reputation: +1031/-133
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #80 on: October 17, 2024, 10:39:07 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Actually you have to answer the tough questions in order to come to the truth of any matter.  I think that's the prudent way to approach controversy.
    You asked no question to start this whole mess. You slung names and slander. Gray asked the questions. But thanks for allowing the truth of the matter to come to light. Hopefully now more people understand exactly the *who* of the individuals involved in the Fr. Feeney debacle, and how this is integral to the entire nature of the crisis we are dealing with instead of sticking one's head in the sand and saying "1950's hierarchy were the good guys and Fr. Feeney should have trusted them for a fair hearing!" And the truth of the matter was that his excommunication had nothing to do with BOD or BOB. That all came later. Facts are hard. 
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline Gunter

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 312
    • Reputation: +128/-81
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #81 on: October 17, 2024, 10:49:11 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thirty years ago I asked a question to a good priest regarding the validity of a certain line of Bishops.  He asked me the question "do you think that Fr.  so and so is so smart he couldn't possibly be wrong on this issue"?  I know the priest that asked me the question is sincere in instructing souls to avoid doubtful orders so I don't hold any bad feelings towards him, but I felt he didn't give me enough evidence to suggest doubts on the matter.  I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears many naive Catholics looking for instruction and direction for the most mundane things.  So the story fits in many cases.  Father so and so said this so he speaks for the Church.  Very dangerous times indeed.

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14751
    • Reputation: +6085/-907
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #82 on: October 17, 2024, 12:07:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You asked no question to start this whole mess. You slung names and slander. Gray asked the questions. But thanks for allowing the truth of the matter to come to light. Hopefully now more people understand exactly the *who* of the individuals involved in the Fr. Feeney debacle, and how this is integral to the entire nature of the crisis we are dealing with instead of sticking one's head in the sand and saying "1950's hierarchy were the good guys and Fr. Feeney should have trusted them for a fair hearing!" And the truth of the matter was that his excommunication had nothing to do with BOD or BOB. That all came later. Facts are hard.
    I don't know ihsv, there is something about the mentality of those who are anti-Fr. Feeney. They have an agenda for sure, but why?  I think the meme here explains it perfectly.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline ihsv

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 742
    • Reputation: +1031/-133
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #83 on: October 17, 2024, 12:08:02 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thirty years ago I asked a question to a good priest regarding the validity of a certain line of Bishops.  He asked me the question "do you think that Fr.  so and so is so smart he couldn't possibly be wrong on this issue"?  I know the priest that asked me the question is sincere in instructing souls to avoid doubtful orders so I don't hold any bad feelings towards him, but I felt he didn't give me enough evidence to suggest doubts on the matter.  I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears many naive Catholics looking for instruction and direction for the most mundane things.  So the story fits in many cases.  Father so and so said this so he speaks for the Church.  Very dangerous times indeed.
    Exactly. Look at the words of Fr. Feeney himself, the actual docuмents involved in the debacle, the lives of those who "disciplined" him, and the results of what they did. Don't just trust the trad clergy on this because most of them had their opinions on it formed by Fr. Laisney and they are misinformed at best and malicious at worst. The only group that uses "Feeneyite" to mean denial of BOD/BOB are trads. The rest of the world understand it as holding that "There is No Salvation Outside the Church." Even wikipedia defines it in this way because that's the way that any NO clergy mean it when they say it. They, at least, are honest that the case was not about BOD/BOB but about Church doctrine.  BOD/BOB wasn't an issue in the excommunication at all. It came later.  Cardinal Avery Dulles, who later succuмbed to modernism but was involved in the Center early on wrote of Fr. Feeney: He was convinced that Catholics must not hesitate to present the full challenge of the Gospel, which for him included the whole system of official dogma. He felt that too many tended, out of politeness and timidity, to evade the task of forthright witness. As long as any person was alive, Father Feeney used to say, we should urge the necessity of his accepting the fullness of the faith. But after death, the situation was different. We could confidently leave our loved ones to the unfathomable mercy of God, to which we could set no limits. “I would infinitely rather be judged by God,” Father Feeney would say, “than by my closest friend.” Isn't that nuts?

    But in the minds of the average NO Catholic, or Catholic in the pew in the 1950's, Fr. Feeney invented the idea that there was no salvation outside the Church and that's a heresy and he was excommunicated for it.
    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/no-salvation-outside-the-church  This is the Novus Ordo religion and it happened before V2. That the Father Feeney case changed Catholic understanding of the necessity of the Church for salvation is undeniable. The irony here is that Fr. Cekada, any of the SSPX priests, etc... would all be radical Feeneyites under interdict if you transported them back in time to Boston, 1952. They certainly would not agree with 'Fr.' Ryland or 'Fr.' Most or Karl Rahner's interpretations of this doctrine.

    https://x.com/RorateCaeli/status/928318989582905344?prefetchTimestamp=1729182565332.

    From biography of Bobby Kennedy: "Back in his undergraduate days, he joined other Harvard Catholics at lectures by Fr. Leonard Feeney, an influential Jesuit priest who warned that the Jєωs "are trying to take over this city" and preached that only Catholics could be saved. Bobby was embarrassed enough by those diatribes to discuss them with his brother Ted and his father, who arranged for him to meet with Archbishop Richard Cushing to convey his concern. Even a Kennedy found it difficult to confront a prelate in those days, and Bobby's courage likely played a role in Feeney's eventual expulsion from his order and excommunication from the church."

    Side note: it took no courage for Bobby to talk to "Uncle Richard." He was over at the Kennedy compound for drinks with Joe all the time.

    Fr. Feeney was a threat to Kennedy political aspirations. You can't get people to vote for you if you tell them they are part of a false religion. This is also detailed in Ted Kennedy's autobiography where he brags about how his family took out Fr. Feeney and the Kennedy family's role in "changing Church doctrine." Go check it out in the library. And then ask yourself if what the Kennedy's hated Fr. Feeney for and persecuted him for was BOD. No, it wasn't. It was EENS. Would you have had the courage to stand up and say "Hang on, this actually IS what the Church teaches! Look at Trent! Look at Florence!" Those professors at Boston College did just that. And they put their names to it. And they lost their livelihoods and reputations for recognizing the creeping liberalism that was happening in Catholic higher education. Fr. Feeney didn't invent anything. He stuck up for them like a good father would do. Like every priest in Boston should have. Those are real men, but you give us an anonymous lawyer who wasn't there and has clearly cherry-picked information. Just don't.

    And that's what is so insane about the position of these trads who want to continue to mudsling the man. Even the words of his enemies at the time exonerate him, but we are supposed to trust clerics who came along decades later and know the real story? Please. 
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline Gray2023

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 2906
    • Reputation: +1628/-900
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #84 on: October 17, 2024, 12:21:25 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • You aren't following the logic or the argument here, and are letting your feelings get in the way. A trad in this very thread, just a few posts up, posted the link to THIS.  Mark is presenting this notion as Church teaching.

    "The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.


    However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God."

    The Baptism of Desire as held by St. Alphonsus and others was not some implicit, vague desire to do what God wants and be a good person. Does God, as it says in your catechism, give all men the graces they need to come to the fullness of truth  or doesn't He?
    (Read this with a sad tone) But what would St. Alphonsus say today?  Where are the Graces today?  If this is the case then millions of souls are falling into hell daily by their own fault because there is always sufficient grace.  How is that a loving God, to allow soooo many choices that we hang ourself spiritually?
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12256
    • Reputation: +7761/-2358
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #85 on: October 17, 2024, 12:25:02 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    Cardinal Avery Dulles, who later succuмbed to modernism but was involved in the Center early on wrote of Fr. Feeney: He was convinced that Catholics must not hesitate to present the full challenge of the Gospel, which for him included the whole system of official dogma. He felt that too many tended, out of politeness and timidity, to evade the task of forthright witness.
    At least in America, EENS has been attacked since 1776.  Protestants vs Catholics has been the battle for centuries.  EENS forced Catholics to preach the gospel and forced protestants to face their heresy straight in the face.  Politically, the "problem" of EENS is that it divided the nation (unnecessarily, the liberals say) and so many politicians and american bishops took a softer stance.  Orestes Brownson (a convert) wrote his whole life in defending EENS and complained of the wishy-washy clerics of his day.

    By the time the post-WW1/Depression days began, american politicians started pushing 'separation of church and state' in order to silence those catholic clerics who wanted to preach EENS.  Post war was the time to "come together" not be divided.  This is the atmosphere where Fr Feeney started preaching...the pre-V2 movement of "universal salvation" and "religious liberty" started with the watering-down of EENS.


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46813
    • Reputation: +27669/-5138
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #86 on: October 17, 2024, 12:42:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Exactly. Look at the words of Fr. Feeney himself, the actual docuмents involved in the debacle, the lives of those who "disciplined" him, and the results of what they did. Don't just trust the trad clergy on this because most of them had their opinions on it formed by Fr. Laisney and they are misinformed at best and malicious at worst. The only group that uses "Feeneyite" to mean denial of BOD/BOB are trads. The rest of the world understand it as holding that "There is No Salvation Outside the Church." Even wikipedia defines it in this way because that's the way that any NO clergy mean it when they say it. They, at least, are honest that the case was not about BOD/BOB but about Church doctrine.  BOD/BOB wasn't an issue in the excommunication at all. It came later.  Cardinal Avery Dulles, who later succuмbed to modernism but was involved in the Center early on wrote of Fr. Feeney: He was convinced that Catholics must not hesitate to present the full challenge of the Gospel, which for him included the whole system of official dogma. He felt that too many tended, out of politeness and timidity, to evade the task of forthright witness. As long as any person was alive, Father Feeney used to say, we should urge the necessity of his accepting the fullness of the faith. But after death, the situation was different. We could confidently leave our loved ones to the unfathomable mercy of God, to which we could set no limits. “I would infinitely rather be judged by God,” Father Feeney would say, “than by my closest friend.” Isn't that nuts?

    But in the minds of the average NO Catholic, or Catholic in the pew in the 1950's, Fr. Feeney invented the idea that there was no salvation outside the Church and that's a heresy and he was excommunicated for it.
    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/no-salvation-outside-the-church  This is the Novus Ordo religion and it happened before V2. That the Father Feeney case changed Catholic understanding of the necessity of the Church for salvation is undeniable. The irony here is that Fr. Cekada, any of the SSPX priests, etc... would all be radical Feeneyites under interdict if you transported them back in time to Boston, 1952. They certainly would not agree with 'Fr.' Ryland or 'Fr.' Most or Karl Rahner's interpretations of this doctrine.

    https://x.com/RorateCaeli/status/928318989582905344?prefetchTimestamp=1729182565332.

    From biography of Bobby Kennedy: "Back in his undergraduate days, he joined other Harvard Catholics at lectures by Fr. Leonard Feeney, an influential Jesuit priest who warned that the Jєωs "are trying to take over this city" and preached that only Catholics could be saved. Bobby was embarrassed enough by those diatribes to discuss them with his brother Ted and his father, who arranged for him to meet with Archbishop Richard Cushing to convey his concern. Even a Kennedy found it difficult to confront a prelate in those days, and Bobby's courage likely played a role in Feeney's eventual expulsion from his order and excommunication from the church."

    Side note: it took no courage for Bobby to talk to "Uncle Richard." He was over at the Kennedy compound for drinks with Joe all the time.

    Fr. Feeney was a threat to Kennedy political aspirations. You can't get people to vote for you if you tell them they are part of a false religion. This is also detailed in Ted Kennedy's autobiography where he brags about how his family took out Fr. Feeney and the Kennedy family's role in "changing Church doctrine." Go check it out in the library. And then ask yourself if what the Kennedy's hated Fr. Feeney for and persecuted him for was BOD. No, it wasn't. It was EENS. Would you have had the courage to stand up and say "Hang on, this actually IS what the Church teaches! Look at Trent! Look at Florence!" Those professors at Boston College did just that. And they put their names to it. And they lost their livelihoods and reputations for recognizing the creeping liberalism that was happening in Catholic higher education. Fr. Feeney didn't invent anything. He stuck up for them like a good father would do. Like every priest in Boston should have. Those are real men, but you give us an anonymous lawyer who wasn't there and has clearly cherry-picked information. Just don't.

    And that's what is so insane about the position of these trads who want to continue to mudsling the man. Even the words of his enemies at the time exonerate him, but we are supposed to trust clerics who came along decades later and know the real story? Please.

    Terrific post !

    Offline ihsv

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 742
    • Reputation: +1031/-133
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #87 on: October 17, 2024, 12:43:56 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • The denial of EENS was a tenet of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. That is the dogma they had to get rid of, because then the rest don't matter and fall like a house of cards. That there are still trads who don't get it is possibly the best evidence of invincible ignorance.

    Jean Jacques Rousseau: "Now that there is and can be no longer an exclusive national religion, tolerance should be given to all religions that tolerate others, so long as their dogmas contain nothing contrary to the duties of citizenship. But whoever dares to say: Outside the Church is no salvation, ought to be driven from the State..."

    Another interesting side note. Look up JFK's funeral Mass on YouTube. It was said by Cushing and was a sloppy mess. Then ask yourself if that's how a devout cleric says Mass in front of the world. 
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 750
    • Reputation: +401/-122
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #88 on: October 17, 2024, 01:53:16 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • (Read this with a sad tone) But what would St. Alphonsus say today?  Where are the Graces today?  If this is the case then millions of souls are falling into hell daily by their own fault because there is always sufficient grace.  How is that a loving God, to allow soooo many choices that we hang ourself spiritually?
    It's not that God loves not men, but that men do not love God.

    But how could so many of the poor Sioux warriors, Mayan child-sacrificers and Aboriginese cannibals go to hell?

    The only acceptable answer: Who put you in judgment over Almighty God?!

    Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.

    Offline rum

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1543
    • Reputation: +729/-687
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #89 on: October 17, 2024, 02:52:06 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Though it's true that Fr. Feeney achieved lots of fame due to EENS, he was famous before that, going back to the 30s. Charles Coloumbe (not a fan) once published a "Feeney FAQ" on the internet which I can't find.

    People who don't like Fr. Feeney can usually be counted on to have very incorrect views about our traditional enemies.

    It's interesting in reading Fr. Feeney's The Point newsletter that it rarely mentions EENS, but focuses primarily on our traditional enemies.

    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.