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Author Topic: Feeney the nut job  (Read 65979 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Feeney the nut job
« Reply #315 on: Yesterday at 01:29:56 PM »
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  • I'm not debating this with a schismatic bad willed moron like you who can't debate without resorting to insults.

    LOL ... he had such a meltdown that he didn't even realize his own contradiction.

    Opening with "schismatic bad willed moron" ... and complaining about being unable to debate without resorting to insults.  :laugh1:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #316 on: Yesterday at 01:35:43 PM »
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  • Rather to ask: If Pope Pius XII was a Holy Pope why did he bring Msgr. Bugnini into Rome for Liturgical butchery and why did he approve of the Masonic apostolate of the jew. Josemaria Escriva?


    Sadly, one can go on for hours about the disaster that was the Pius XII pontificate.  While not a heretic, and therefore a legitimate pope, his was THE watershed papacy leading right into Vatican II.

    During his protracted reign he ...

    1) appointed the vast majority of bishops who would just a few years after his death bring us Vatican II (THE singlemost important job of a pope, where if he does this well, he need do very little more -- don't tell me that in each diocese you couldn't find a staunchly Traditional priest to make bishop of the diocese)
    2) started Bugnini on his Liturgical experimentations and approved of garbage like the "Mass of the Future"
    3) approved some of the earliest Ecuмenical conferences
    4) opened the door to Evolution (didn't approve it, but allowed it to be discussed --- and we should know what happens when you give them an inch)
    5) opened the door to the wide use of NFP (due to a failure at the very least to lay down explicitly what the conditions are for its use)
    6) failed to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary
    7) failed to reveal the Third Secret of Fatima
    8) failed to take any action knowing full well what was in the Third Secret
    9) failed to condemn many of the heretical Modernists who were floating around and approved of before Vatican II ... there were thousands of these who went uncondmned and who came out of the woodwork like roaches after someone turns off the lights
    10) failed to condemn Cushing for open heresy (along with many others all over the world who believed the same thing)

    ... and so on and so forth

    oh, but he did punish Montini for ratting out bishops and priests behind the Iron Curtain ... resulting in their imprisonment and even deaths ... by not giving him the "red hat".




    Offline songbird

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #317 on: Yesterday at 02:27:49 PM »
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  • My opinion, Pope Pius XII went wrong in his pontificate.  Enough to lose authority, like Pope Pius XI.  IMO

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #318 on: Today at 11:19:00 AM »
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  • lose authority, like Pope Pius XI.
    .

    :confused:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #319 on: Today at 11:40:15 AM »
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  • So, this is the main reason I backed away from SVism.  I knew a guy who said Pius IX was a non-pope, having fallen from the See due to heresy.

    SVs, perhaps you can provide some kind of principle whereby someone could claim the current Pope is not legitimate, but not a past Pope, like Pius XII.  Then, let's say the next Pope teaches either against or in favor of BoD, and some people declare him a heretic (on one side or another) and hold the See to be vacant again.

    What's the backstop against this? ... where Fr. Cekada's Aunt Helen can wake up one morning and just decide that the Pope is not the Pope.

    In the past, if you thought the Pope was the Pope, and he taught something contrary to your opinion, you accepted that teaching and rejected that opinion.  Now, with SVism, you can just declare the Pope to be in error and heresy, and simply declare the See vacant.  Problem solved.


    Offline VivaJesus

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #320 on: Today at 12:13:12 PM »
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  • My opinion, Pope Pius XII went wrong in his pontificate.  Enough to lose authority, like Pope Pius XI.  IMO
    So, you might as well deny the Assumption of Our Lady (Pope Pius XII) and "un-canonize" the Little Flower (Pope Pius XI).

    The identity of a Pope is a dogmatic fact, lady, and you just denied two of them. The same goes for Pope John XXIII, who many sedevacantists decided to consider illegitimate despite the impossibility of proving that he had a habitual intention contrary to the common good of the Church or that he pertinaciously believed something contrary to the faith.

    Ladislaus, you can't complain after you posted your list of little scandals of Pope Pius XII. I suggest that you read St. Matthew 18, 6-7.

    That's what this forum is: an endless cornucopia of scandal, distraction, fables, outright heresy, pettiness, et c.
    My real name: Rogelio Caballero. 
    My personal posture: Paul VI and his successors lack(ed) papal authority. NO orders must be considered invalid. As of Sept. 2025, I have grave reservations towards almost all traditionalist groups (sede or not). Therefore, I take back everything that I've said in favor of any group or bishop. Quotations or references are not necessarily endorsements. BOD/BOB would only apply to those with explicit faith in the Trinity and the Incarnation. Save your soul! PAX!

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #321 on: Today at 12:42:05 PM »
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  • My opinion, Pope Pius XII went wrong in his pontificate.  Enough to lose authority, like Pope Pius XI.  IMO

    So, you might as well deny the Assumption of Our Lady (Pope Pius XII) and "un-canonize" the Little Flower (Pope Pius XI).

    To add to VivaJesus' list, songbird, in her opinion, denies the sainthood of St. Frances Xavier Cabrini, St. Louis de Montfort, St. Pius X, and St. Dominic Savio, to name just a few: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_saints_canonized_by_Pope_Pius_XII.

    By rejecting the pontificate of Pope Lius XI she also denies the sainthood of St. Therese of Lisieux, St. John Vianney, St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Louise de Marillac, St. John Bosco, St. John Fisher, and St. Thomas More, to name just a few: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_saints_canonized_by_Pope_Pius_XI.

    This is quite an "opinion" for a lay woman to have.







    Offline songbird

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #322 on: Today at 12:58:55 PM »
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  • Our Lady told sister Lucia, Pope Pius XI did not consecrate Russia.  He will be like King Louis XIV, dethroned and beheaded.  1931.  Pope Pius !X, Leo, and Cardinal Manning, when defining Vatican I, knew nomination and election of Pope infallible, but can a Pope go wrong in his pontificate, yes.


    Offline songbird

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #323 on: Today at 01:00:36 PM »
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  • A pope can lose authority in their pontificate.  Therefore said Our Lady, no consecration, errors will abound.

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #324 on: Today at 04:15:32 PM »
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  • Leaving aside the status of the popes after Venerable Pius XII, having nearly 3 quarters of a century in the Church I am unaware of Her stating anywhere that a legitimate sitting pope, the Vicar of Christ on Earth, can "lose authority".  Nor can I imagine Almighty God allowing this.  Certainly there have been Supreme Pontiffs who were less than ideal, and were undoubtable delt with at their particular judgement, but while alive as the Pope they held the authority of their office.  On the other hand, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Cranmer, and the like, taught that in their day the Popes and the Church had errored and departed from the teachings of the Apostles, the Church Fathers, and the plain words of scripture.  I am not going down that path, and I'm surprised to see such protestant views on a Catholic forum.

    Again, speaking from the pre VII perspective, it is not the role of a lay person to assume the teaching authority of the Church by declaring (even if only as an opinion) who has been a legitimate Pontiff and who hasn't, who has authority in the Church and who doesn't, who has been legitimately lifted to the honors of the altar by canonization, and who hasn't.  If a Pope has lost their "authority" they certainly wouldn't have the authority to declare a Saint.

    If Fatima is going to be appealed to, note that it is a private revelation approved by the Church.  While of great benefit, it's messages are not binding on the faithful as doctrine.



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #325 on: Today at 06:13:16 PM »
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  • So, the two questions I've never seen answered by the Totalist Sedevacantists ...

    1) What principle serves as a backstop from anyone at any given time simply declaring the current Pope a heretic or non-pope, or even past popes like Pius IX, Pius XI, Pius XII, and one guy I knew even St. Pius X?

    2) What evidence is there that Montini was a "manifest heretic" before his putative election?  Nobody has ever presented anything ... since Montini was more concerned about running soup kitchens than about anything related to doctrine.  So the first time that anyone could recognize that Montini was a non-pope was ... when he started teaching error from the See?  That's a huge problem, then, if there's no a priori and independent criterion for knowing papal legitimacy, since if a Pope teaches something you think is erroneous, just declare him a non-pope and ... problem solved.  Old Catholics could have just made that allegation against Pius IX.  Why not?