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Author Topic: Feeney the nut job  (Read 32521 times)

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Offline Gunter

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Feeney the nut job
« on: October 16, 2024, 03:23:39 PM »
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  • Feeney was responsible of operating a cult of personality.  Be careful you're not in one.
    https://youtu.be/yPrrvSDymSA?si=J8D4VznzE9jRw78n

    Offline ihsv

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #1 on: October 16, 2024, 03:28:11 PM »
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  • Oh, dear. This thread ought to be titled "A Synthesis of Silly Slanders."
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed


    Offline M1913

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #2 on: October 16, 2024, 03:36:39 PM »
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  • In most cases, those influenced by liberalism may hold a lack of appreciation for the teachings of Fr. Feeney.

    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #3 on: October 16, 2024, 03:57:35 PM »
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  • Most people who have slandered Fr. Feeney have never read what he had to say.  And some of them are priests. 
    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #4 on: October 16, 2024, 04:24:23 PM »
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  • If he was a good Catholic, then why was he excommunicated.

    From wikipedia:

    "Excommunication
    On 8 August 1949, Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani of the Holy Office sent a protocol letter to Archbishop Richard Cushing on the meaning of the dogma extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation"). This protocol had been approved by Pope Pius XII on 28 July 1949. The docuмent states: "[T]his dogma [extra Ecclesiam nulla salus] must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Saviour gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church".[13][14][15]
    After Feeney refused twice to oblige to the Holy See's summons to Rome to explain himself, he was excommunicated on 13 February 1953 by the Holy See for persistent disobedience to legitimate church authority due to his refusal to comply. According to Cardinal John Wright, Pope Pius XII personally translated the edict into English.[9]"


    Why would we still try to listen to him today?  Maybe he was right in addressing some issues, but to be overly dogmatic can also be a sign of great pride.

    Is it really worth my time to figure out the ins and outs of Father Feeney? or is this just another distraction put before us to not work out our own salvation with fear and trembling?

    And Gunter, why would you purposefully put a topic title on the board that would rile up those who like Father Feeney?  Couldn't you have written something like interesting information on Father Feeney?  




    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #5 on: October 16, 2024, 04:35:09 PM »
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  • If he was a good Catholic, then why was he excommunicated.

    From wikipedia:

    "Excommunication
    On 8 August 1949, Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani of the Holy Office sent a protocol letter to Archbishop Richard Cushing on the meaning of the dogma extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation"). This protocol had been approved by Pope Pius XII on 28 July 1949. The docuмent states: "[T]his dogma [extra Ecclesiam nulla salus] must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Saviour gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church".[13][14][15]
    After Feeney refused twice to oblige to the Holy See's summons to Rome to explain himself, he was excommunicated on 13 February 1953 by the Holy See for persistent disobedience to legitimate church authority due to his refusal to comply. According to Cardinal John Wright, Pope Pius XII personally translated the edict into English.[9]"


    Why would we still try to listen to him today?  Maybe he was right in addressing some issues, but to be overly dogmatic can also be a sign of great pride.

    Is it really worth my time to figure out the ins and outs of Father Feeney? or is this just another distraction put before us to not work out our own salvation with fear and trembling?

    And Gunter, why would you purposefully put a topic title on the board that would rile up those who like Father Feeney?  Couldn't you have written something like interesting information on Father Feeney? 
    His excommunication was over disobedience, he was called to Rome for trial without being informed of the reason, which goes against canon law.

    Also the so called protocol is a farce, it was never entered into the Acts of the Apostolic Sea nor signed up Pope Pius 12th.

    Offline Gunter

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #6 on: October 16, 2024, 04:49:46 PM »
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  • If he was a good Catholic, then why was he excommunicated.

    From wikipedia:

    "Excommunication
    On 8 August 1949, Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani of the Holy Office sent a protocol letter to Archbishop Richard Cushing on the meaning of the dogma extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation"). This protocol had been approved by Pope Pius XII on 28 July 1949. The docuмent states: "[T]his dogma [extra Ecclesiam nulla salus] must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Saviour gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church".[13][14][15]
    After Feeney refused twice to oblige to the Holy See's summons to Rome to explain himself, he was excommunicated on 13 February 1953 by the Holy See for persistent disobedience to legitimate church authority due to his refusal to comply. According to Cardinal John Wright, Pope Pius XII personally translated the edict into English.[9]"


    Why would we still try to listen to him today?  Maybe he was right in addressing some issues, but to be overly dogmatic can also be a sign of great pride.

    Is it really worth my time to figure out the ins and outs of Father Feeney? or is this just another distraction put before us to not work out our own salvation with fear and trembling?

    And Gunter, why would you purposefully put a topic title on the board that would rile up those who like Father Feeney?  Couldn't you have written something like interesting information on Father Feeney? 
    Because he started an illegal cult that separated parents from their children.  History tends to repeat maybe in slightly different ways with different circuмstances. Traditional chapels are the breeding grounds of clicks and whisper campaigns.   

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #7 on: October 16, 2024, 04:54:59 PM »
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  • ... but to be overly dogmatic can also be a sign of great pride.

    Slandering the man out of obvious ignorance.  He was anything but dogmatic, clearly stating that his position regarding BoD was his opinion only.  Nor was BoD even the issue in the beginning.  He was dealing with the Heresiarch "Cardinal" Cushing and heretical Jesuit superiors who explicitly, verbatim, and pertinaciously rejected EENS dogma.  Cushing:  "No salvation outside the Church?  Nonsense."

    So, yeah, he was dogmatic about ... dogma, a dogma that's been defined 3 times.

    Again with the hypocrisy of proudly accusing him of pride ... when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

    Father Feeney was THE ONLY ONE who realized that there was something rotten in the Church in the 1940s and 1950s.  Seminaries and convents were full, conversions at record levels, schools going up left and right ... so everyone was complacent.  But Father Feeney realized that something stunk.  He reflected on it for years and understood that the problem had to do with the rejection of EENS dogma and the resulting anti-Tridentine ecclesiology.  He basically saw Vatican II coming before anyone else thought it possible.  Obviously Vatican II didn't just come out of nowhere, or fall out of the sky ... as the root causes had been festering in the Church for decades and, to some extent, even for centuries.  We didn't have a perfectly sound Church and then all of a sudden on one sunny morning in, oh, 1962, the Church just apostasized en masse.

    In fact, most "Trads" even with the 20/20 of hindsight STILL have no clue about the actual theological root cause of Vatican II:  EENS dogma.  In fact, many of them effectively hold the very same ecclesiology that they with the other side of their mouth denounce as heretical in Vatican II.  Karl "Anonymous Christian" Rahner marveled that the conservative fathers at V2 didn't make a peep about what he realized was the most revolutionary aspect of V2, the soteriology.  Clueless wonders are most "Trad" clergy ... as we see also with regard to the voting issue.

    This is why Tradism has floundered and not spread, why the SSPX is being sucked inexorably back into the Conciliar Church, others are thinly-vailed Old Catholics.  If you accept the 1940s/1950s Modernist-heretical ecclesiology, you really don't have a leg to stand on in condemning the teaching of Vatican II.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #8 on: October 16, 2024, 04:57:25 PM »
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  • Because he started an illegal cult that separated parents from their children.  History tends to repeat maybe in slightly different ways with different circuмstances. Traditional chapels are the breeding grounds of clicks and whisper campaigns. 

    Nothing but slanderous trash borne of of some combination of ignorance and malice ... all of which has been debunked.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #9 on: October 16, 2024, 04:59:10 PM »
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  • Feeney was responsible of operating a cult of personality.  Be careful you're not in one.

    People have said that about every single charismatic and talented individual who's ever lived:  +Lefebvre, +Williamson, etc.  If the man is talented and influential, they always start with the "personality cult" smear.

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #10 on: October 16, 2024, 05:11:57 PM »
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  • Slandering the man out of obvious ignorance.  He was anything but dogmatic, clearly stating that his position regarding BoD was his opinion only.  Nor was BoD even the issue in the beginning.  He was dealing with the Heresiarch "Cardinal" Cushing and heretical Jesuit superiors who explicitly, verbatim, and pertinaciously rejected EENS dogma.  Cushing:  "No salvation outside the Church?  Nonsense."

    So, yeah, he was dogmatic about ... dogma, a dogma that's been defined 3 times.

    Again with the hypocrisy of proudly accusing him of pride ... when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

    Father Feeney was THE ONLY ONE who realized that there was something rotten in the Church in the 1940s and 1950s.  Seminaries and convents were full, conversions at record levels, schools going up left and right ... so everyone was complacent.  But Father Feeney realized that something stunk.  He reflected on it for years and understood that the problem had to do with the rejection of EENS dogma and the resulting anti-Tridentine ecclesiology.  He basically saw Vatican II coming before anyone else thought it possible.  Obviously Vatican II didn't just come out of nowhere, or fall out of the sky ... as the root causes had been festering in the Church for decades and, to some extent, even for centuries.  We didn't have a perfectly sound Church and then all of a sudden on one sunny morning in, oh, 1962, the Church just apostasized en masse.

    In fact, most "Trads" even with the 20/20 of hindsight STILL have no clue about the actual theological root cause of Vatican II:  EENS dogma.  In fact, many of them effectively hold the very same ecclesiology that they with the other side of their mouth denounce as heretical in Vatican II.  Karl "Anonymous Christian" Rahner marveled that the conservative fathers at V2 didn't make a peep about what he realized was the most revolutionary aspect of V2, the soteriology.  Clueless wonders are most "Trad" clergy ... as we see also with regard to the voting issue.

    This is why Tradism has floundered and not spread, why the SSPX is being sucked inexorably back into the Conciliar Church, others are thinly-vailed Old Catholics.  If you accept the 1940s/1950s Modernist-heretical ecclesiology, you really don't have a leg to stand on in condemning the teaching of Vatican II.

    I might be naive on Father Feeney's particulars, but I know that disobedience is the root cause of the fall of man.  It has been from the time Adam fell in the Garden of Eden.  If God wants success he requires obedience.  You want this Crisis to come to an end, then stop finding everything to disagree with and start finding the authority you wish to follow, and stick to it.  It sucks that there are so many to choose from right now.

    St. Athanansius, pray for us!!!!
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"


    Offline ihsv

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #11 on: October 16, 2024, 05:29:06 PM »
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  • St. Joan of Arc died excommunicated and she is no less a saint. The who did it and why of the excommunication matter. In Fr. Feeney's case, those people who were supposed to judge his case were the very architects of Nostra Aetate and Vatican 2. Fr. Feeney was the canary in the coal mine for the depths of the problems in the Church and just how far to the top they went, but that is uncomfortable to say the least for those sedes who want to pretend that the reign of Pius XII was golden. Historical facts are not difficult to ascertain. The appearance of excommunicating Fr. Feeney for the "heresy" of teaching Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus did convince Joe Catholic that the church is not the only way to Heaven. Check the headlines from the newspapers of the day. And decades after his death, the vindications of Fr. Feeney just keep coming. Ted Kennedy's autobiography gloried in his family's role in the excommunication charade, bragging that "we changed church teaching." The US State department leaked letter earlier this year named Cardinal Pizzardo, the very  cardinal who summoned Fr. Feeney to Rome, as a US mole with instructions to interfere in the 1958 Conclave and make sure that neither Ottaviani nor Siri were elected. This same cardinal covered up the largest sex abuse scandal in the Church to date. But his pre-1958 actions are not suspect? The disconnect of these trad groups is staggering. 

    There are hit job pieces on every trad group out there with stories to make them look like cults. Every group has disgruntled ex-adherents with an axe to grind, but also, the silent saints in skirts. Ten seconds on Google can make the SSPX, SSPV, and CMRI look like Jim Jones. Unfortunately, the St. Benedict Center has a rather loud, bitter feminist who grew up there who takes time off from the board of her transgender charity to detract the dead. Giving her time and space is sinful, and those who have had to defend Abp Thuc from slanders really ought to know better. This is recycled nonsense and not some new investigative journalism. 

    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline ihsv

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #12 on: October 16, 2024, 05:30:59 PM »
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  • I might be naive on Father Feeney's particulars, but I know that disobedience is the root cause of the fall of man.  It has been from the time Adam fell in the Garden of Eden.  If God wants success he requires obedience.  You want this Crisis to come to an end, then stop finding everything to disagree with and start finding the authority you wish to follow, and stick to it.  It sucks that there are so many to choose from right now.

    St. Athanansius, pray for us!!!!
    You do know that St. Athanasius was disobedient to his superiors and "contra mundi?" False obedience is never a virtue. Fr. Feeney simply figured out who the bad guys were faster than anyone else and those who were late to the game hate him for it.

    Also, choosing the authority you wish to follow is false obedience. One must always seek truth and be watchful. Every single trad group has their issues.

    I have to ask, though, if Fr. Feeney was wrong and a heretic and there is, in fact, salvation outside the Church, why are we bothering with all this? What does it matter? Just go be a good intentioned whatever you want to be. 
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #13 on: October 16, 2024, 05:58:39 PM »
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  • You want this Crisis to come to an end, then stop finding everything to disagree with and start finding the authority you wish to follow, and stick to it. 



    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Feeney the nut job
    « Reply #14 on: October 16, 2024, 06:15:17 PM »
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  • I love how people keep taking things out of context to make a person sound worst than they are. 

    Right now we have so many traditional choices.  All of them argue that they are the most perfect to follow, yet none of them seem to have God's stamp of approval.  We have the writings of great saints, we do not need to waste our time in these weeds.  We have questions about Father Feeney, Archbishop Lafebvre, Bishop Dolan, Father Cekada, etc  which is funny because they have gone to their eternal reward and know the TRUTH and yet God keeps us in the dark. 

    Why don't we try to help each other instead of bring each other down? 

    We know what the TRUTH is.  We follow that TRUTH.  We pick the priest or bishop that we align with the most, and we HOPE for the best.

    My statement was no call to become Novus Ordo or Protestant. 

    If we doubt everything that God puts before us as Catholics, then we are ripe for the devils picking.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"