Author Topic: Euthanasia and Catholics  (Read 2586 times)

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Offline littlerose

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Euthanasia and Catholics
« on: January 10, 2010, 08:26:18 PM »
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  • There is breaking news today that Archbishop O'Malley up in Boston is accelerating the death rate for elderly priests,
    see link: http://throwthebumsoutin2010.blogspot.com/2010/01/regina-cleary.html

    Quote
    [Is Cardinal O'Malley Euthanizing His Elderly Priests?]
    Regina Cleary

    Carol McKinley
    Throw the Bums Out 2010
    January 9, 2010

    I'm working on a disturbing lead about Cardinal O'Malley throwing six falsely accused priests, ages 71 to 88, out of Regina Cleary Nursing Home and cutting off their medical benefits. In one case, the Cardinal threatened to cut off the oxygen of a cancer patient......


    I am going through the process of getting CNA-certified since I was working in private hospice care.  That's why this really tugs at my heart-strings.  Besides that work, a couple years ago I was bringing breakfast to a retired priest who was abandoned by the Church and his only other food was the awful stuff they get from "Meals on Wheels" (lunch & supper.)  A Catholic Charities social worker was getting him into a nursing home but she was doing that the same as for any Catholic.  The nasty part is, from what I understand, the Catholic Church does not have to pay into social security and so these ordained people, nuns and priests, end up without the benefits any other American worker would be getting after years of teaching, counseling, etc.

    The Church is exempted from paying gov't services because it is assumed the Church provides those services.  :shocked:

    Clearly, this is yet another reason we are not seeing vocations.  But if you rise above the level of a nun or priest to become a Bishop like  ArchBishop Sean O'Malley, you don't have to worry.




    Offline Elizabeth

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    Euthanasia and Catholics
    « Reply #1 on: January 10, 2010, 08:50:10 PM »
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  • That is seriously alarming, especially because these guys are not so eager to run out and give souls  Extreme Unction.
     :devil2:



    Offline littlerose

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    « Reply #2 on: January 10, 2010, 09:43:57 PM »
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  • Well, the writer McKinley just posted that today and as things go, it will be getting some kind of response during the week. We'll just have to wait and see what the details are.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 09:56:54 PM »
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  • I think it is frightful that the traditional priests who have gotten so much real estate and money don't go help priests like that.  Why not just make a few phone calls to relatives, get a layperson who has a van and go get these old clergy and bring 'em to safety?

    This charity would go a long way.  Not everyone could afford to do this , but some most certainly could. God bless you for taking care of the old priest, Littlerose.

    Offline littlerose

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    « Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 10:07:40 PM »
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  • I think we are going to see a resurgence of the old custom of hiring "companions" for elderly relatives. At least I hope so. I am getting my CNA certificate with a hope of going into that kind of work, which I already have expereince in.

    There was a comment somewhre, in the SSPX site I think, saying that Traditionals are going to have to move from considering the chapels as places for Mass to becoming full parishes with all of the pastoral and personal care that involves. I heartily agree with that idea, and I think that while the world goes to Hell we can withdraw from it and recover the Kingdom of God that is within us, we can easily start to network personal services among Traditional Catholics.

    Especially since as a group we are Boomer and older to a large extent.....


    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 11:42:14 PM »
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  • Elizabeth said:
    Quote
    I think it is frightful that the traditional priests who have gotten so much real estate and money don't go help priests like that.


    This is why I had to be an Indian-giver, Elizabeth.  You are constantly using this SGG junk in a way that, though I can't read your intentions, makes it seem like you are resentful because of their anti-una-cum stance.  Your home base being in Cincinnati also leads me to this conclusion.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  

    Abp. Lefebvre, this is a fact and you can look it up, removed sedevacantist priests without giving them any support at all.  

    But I don't care about the personal squabbles of these men.  To me they are one and the same.  They do not teach the truth.  I have yet to see any who doesn't hold a heretical position on EENS or NFP.  

    I suppose I should try to speak to some of them directly rather than assailing them on the Internet.  They have defended themselves and their heresies before very publicly -- like in Father Cekada's case with NFP and Terri Schiavo -- so I have assumed they are formal heretics.  But perhaps since it has usually been Feeneyites that criticized them before, the Schiavo situation excluded, they saw fit to disregard those criticisms.  

    The problem is not that they teach baptism of desire; the problem is that they teach salvation in false religions and through invincible ignorance.  It took me a while to figure out the difference, because these traditional priests put EVERYTHING under the banner of "baptism of desire."  They are only slightly less all-inclusive than Vatican II.

    Until they change and repent, giving money to a heretical priest is actually a sin, I think.  Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio of Paul IV says heretics should be deprived of all natural human kindness!  So when you see me acting like what appears to be a monster, just know that it goes against my nature, since I want to be liked just as much as anyone else -- a horrible failing and weakness -- but I'm following my Church.  I cannot support those who are heretics, OR those who support those who are heretics.  

    Quote
    (iii) That all such individuals also shall be held, treated and reputed as such by everyone, of whatsoever status, grade, order, condition or pre-eminence he may be and whatsoever excellence may be his, even Episcopal, Archiepiscopal, Patriarchal and Primatial or other greater Ecclesiastical dignity and even the honour of the Cardinalate, or secular, even the authority of Count, Baron, Marquis, Duke, King or Emperor, and as such must be avoided and must be deprived of the sympathy of all natural kindness.


    I have worked hard to figure out the true Catholic doctrine, and believe, that with the help of many on this site and others, as well as from the Popes and the saints, I have put together the magical formula of Catholicism after decades of lies -- no NFP, no sacrilegious una cum, EENS means that you cannot be saved in false religions after the age of reason, and you cannot be saved by invincible ignorance.

    But almost no one seems to care much.  

    The exception is my friend Brian.  He was with me doctrinally on almost everything except invincible ignorance, but finally came around to my point of view when I told him about Trent, where it says only those can be saved to whom the merit of Christ's passion is communicated -- clear dogmatic proof you must have explicit faith to be saved.  Instantly, he changed his position, although the day before he did not believe me that something that had been taught by so many theologians was wrong.  ( Trent also says that the idea of implicit faith leads souls to hell, meaning it is heresy, not just error ).

    That's how easy it should be.  We should all be searching for the truth, and we should be of one mind when we find it.  Once we are of one mind, we should bring our complaints to the priests.  If they disregard us, rather than supporting them, we should be leaving their filthy dens of heresy in droves.  Supply follows demand; if we DEMAND the truth, someone will stand up and give it to us, or else these guys will starve.  They are leading souls to hell on a massive scale -- it isn't cute.  
    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS

    Offline littlerose

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    Euthanasia and Catholics
    « Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 11:58:18 PM »
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  • Raoul, why do you even post here? You said in another post that you went straight from being a pagan to being asedevacantist. Sedes are former Catholics, they have removed themselves. and anyone who joins them from some base other than Catholic, was never Catholic in the first place.

    We have an important issue here, the involvment of one of our Catholic bishops with what appears to be a very serious and sinister set of decisions.

    Elizabeth's attitude about wealth etc is not something that should be attacked because it is not only off-topic, you as a non-Catholic really have no business butting in.

    You don't acknowledge the Pope's authority because you call yourself a "sede", but since you said just recently that you went from pagan to sede, you never were Catholic in the first place.

    You attacked me on the life issue already in another threead and now you are attempting to pulll this thread off topic with personal attacks on Catholics.

    This is a Catholic board. You are not Catholic. This is not an open apologetics ecumenical nondenominational board. I have no say in your being here, but in my opinion you are in the wrong place.

    This discussion is about euthanasia and what is going on in a Catholic diocese. We Catholics should be able to have this discussion without you trying to pull it into a discussion of someone's personal attitude about relative wealth of the Trads and the other Catholics, especially since you apparently were never even Cahtolic to begin with, if you went from being a pagan to palling around with the sedevacantists, who for the most part at least are former Catholics and not former pagans.

    This thread is about euthanasia in the Massachusetts diocese among Catholics. It is not about your personal sect or whatever it is you belong to. You have no business accusing anyone of heresy because you are not even Catholic in the first place.


    Offline MaterDominici

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    Euthanasia and Catholics
    « Reply #7 on: January 11, 2010, 12:55:37 AM »
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  • Why do you attack Raoul? I think the sedes probably outnumber the non-sedes here so your claim that he doesn't belong is very weak.

    You probably have more in common with him than you care to acknowledge.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...


    Offline littlerose

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    Euthanasia and Catholics
    « Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 01:08:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    Why do you attack Raoul? I think the sedes probably outnumber the non-sedes here so your claim that he doesn't belong is very weak.

    You probably have more in common with him than you care to acknowledge.

    He's always hijacking threads
    and most of the sedesw that I have read are seriously expereinced Catholics who would probably return to the church if the problems with VII were resolved. Raoul is a pagan, said so himself, and he joins up with the sedes without ever being catholic in the first place.

    He hijacked this thread into his own nonCatholic direction.

    If this is a Catholic board, even a sedevacant one, what is his point? the Sedes are Catholics who have taken one step away because of a split, but Raoul was never Catholic in the first place. He just runs around hijacking threads.

    And his hostility to threads on the subject of life issues among Catholics is extremely offensive. He doesn't belong here anymore than a Jehovah's Witness or Episcopalean arguing against Cathlics.

    Unless, materdominici, what you are telling me is that this in fact is NOT a Catholic board?

    Offline St Jude Thaddeus

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    « Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 01:40:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: littlerose
     Besides that work, a couple years ago I was bringing breakfast to a retired priest who was abandoned by the Church and his only other food was the awful stuff they get from "Meals on Wheels" (lunch & supper.)  A Catholic Charities social worker was getting him into a nursing home but she was doing that the same as for any Catholic.  The nasty part is, from what I understand, the Catholic Church does not have to pay into social security and so these ordained people, nuns and priests, end up without the benefits any other American worker would be getting after years of teaching, counseling, etc.

    The Church is exempted from paying gov't services because it is assumed the Church provides those services.  :shocked:


    Well, I for one certainly assumed that the Church took care of its retired clergy. When I was a dues-paying member of the diocese I remember putting an extra envelope into the basket every year for the religious's retirement fund. How does the diocese go about "abandoning" an old priest like the one you described above?
    St. Jude, who, disregarding the threats of the impious, courageously preached the doctrine of Christ,
    pray for us.

    Offline St Jude Thaddeus

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    « Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 01:56:31 AM »
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  • BTW, littlerose, I don't think you should be calling Raoul a non-Catholic any more than he should be calling you or anyone else one. If he and you were both validly baptized, and profess the Athanasian Creed and hold to the Church's teachings, you both can be considered Catholics. How good of a Catholic either of you are is a different matter entirely; we all know that just being a member of the Church is no guarantee of salvation.

    Let's avoid the anathematizing of other members around here. We may disagree with another poster's arguments but no one here has the authority to declare others to be Catholics or not. I think we can make a clear distinction between an obvious heretic like Uriel or Classicom and those posters who are sincere but are occasionally mistaken on some things, like the rest of us.

    It would be interesting to bring back of few of the Holy Inquisitors, to see which of us would pass their interrogations... :heretic:

    St. Jude, who, disregarding the threats of the impious, courageously preached the doctrine of Christ,
    pray for us.


    Offline littlerose

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    « Reply #11 on: January 11, 2010, 02:01:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus
    Quote from: littlerose
     Besides that work, a couple years ago I was bringing breakfast to a retired priest who was abandoned by the Church and his only other food was the awful stuff they get from "Meals on Wheels" (lunch & supper.)  A Catholic Charities social worker was getting him into a nursing home but she was doing that the same as for any Catholic.  The nasty part is, from what I understand, the Catholic Church does not have to pay into social security and so these ordained people, nuns and priests, end up without the benefits any other American worker would be getting after years of teaching, counseling, etc.

    The Church is exempted from paying gov't services because it is assumed the Church provides those services.  :shocked:


    Well, I for one certainly assumed that the Church took care of its retired clergy. When I was a dues-paying member of the diocese I remember putting an extra envelope into the basket every year for the religious's retirement fund. How does the diocese go about "abandoning" an old priest like the one you described above?


    I never understood it. I was introduced to him by a neighbor who had been looking out for him and realized we were the only two Catholics around. She was an African-American Baptist if she went to church at all.  I think he had  a little dementia or ahlzheimer's going on, possibly from repeated strokes. It was only a matter of a couple of months before he finally got his place in the nursing home.

    I felt bad because I know he would be up against even worse anticatholic attitudes in a regular home instead of among neighbors, but there is only so much you can do.  He had family who showed up to clear out his things after he left but like most families they probably had no contact with him, assuming he had "gone into the Church" like we all do, and families are not that close-knit these days, anyway.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 09:20:18 AM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76


     

     

     






     I have put together the magical formula of Catholicism after decades of lies -- no NFP, no sacrilegious una cum, EENS means that you cannot be saved in false religions after the age of reason, and you cannot be saved by invincible ignorance.

     
     You are correct.  YOU have put together a MAGIC FORMULA.
      :laugh1:







    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 09:26:21 AM »
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  • Littlerose, this is exactly why a number of priests are afraid to leave the V2 church for Tradition.  They are afraid of this type of abandonment, which is ironic.

    An old priest said that his contemporaries were hard-pressed to get Last Rites, which is just awful...if they won't even assist their own, what about the rest of us poor sinners?

    Offline littlerose

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    « Reply #14 on: January 11, 2010, 11:11:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    Littlerose, this is exactly why a number of priests are afraid to leave the V2 church for Tradition.  They are afraid of this type of abandonment, which is ironic.

    An old priest said that his contemporaries were hard-pressed to get Last Rites, which is just awful...if they won't even assist their own, what about the rest of us poor sinners?


    I think the exemption for churches from paying into the social security system in the usa shouldbe removed. That way, it is just like any other employment situation, you might lose your promised pension from your company, but you will at least have basic soc security payemtns. That is what surprised me, that this priest was on "SSI" which is the $500 or so a month that the USA pays to the completely indigent workers who never paid in, like housewives who are not getting survivor benefits or people who have worked for unregistered employers and in self-emplyment.  There is no excuse for allowing the churches to be treated any differntly, it has nothing to do with "separation of church & state", it is simple economics.

    Not even getting into the hypocrisy of "charity" here.  

    This was not a Trad priest. He was N-O and he was in good graces with the church. Apparently it is diocese-by-diocese and not ruled from Rome.


     

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