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Author Topic: Earth is NOT a celestial body  (Read 2776 times)

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Offline Tradplorable

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Earth is NOT a celestial body
« on: September 07, 2017, 10:41:04 AM »
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  • This thread is for Neil Obstat, who cannot seem to scientifically differentiate between terrestrial bodies and celestial ones, as taught by Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Bible.

    The earth is NOT a celestial body. It does NOT exist in the heavens, nor in the Firmament. The heavens and the Firmament are ABOVE the terre, the land, the EARTH.

    The sun, moon, and stars are celestial bodies and exist in the heavens and move within the Firmament.

    To conclude, as Neil does, that the earth must be like the moon, is a very grave ERROR.

    The Bible is extremely SPECIFIC about this:

    "All flesh is not the same flesh: but one is the flesh of men, another of beasts, another of birds, another of fishes. And there are bodies celestial, and bodies terrestrial: but, one is the glory of the celestial, and another of the terrestrial. One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, and another the glory of the stars. For star differeth from star in glory. " I Cor. 15:39-41


    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #1 on: September 07, 2017, 10:47:53 AM »
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  • Offline happenby

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #2 on: September 07, 2017, 10:49:49 AM »
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  • Odd for ball earthers that this picture is found in Bibles and not the NASA version of the universe.

    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #3 on: September 07, 2017, 12:28:38 PM »
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  • Odd for ball earthers that this picture is found in Bibles and not the NASA version of the universe.

    We have the source :incense:; they have sorcery .  
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #4 on: September 08, 2017, 11:54:55 AM »
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  • .
    I'm so impressed you're able to provide a real photo of your "flat earth" that isn't CGI! Thank you!!
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    But seriously, for sane readers who might be wondering why we keep allowing flat-earthers their "safe space" here on CathInfo.................
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    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #5 on: September 08, 2017, 12:56:23 PM »
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  • How strange that Neil has no response to the Scripture that clearly supplies the difference between the earth and moon, when he claimed the earth *must* be like the moon. Hilarious. No rebuttal at all.

    Whattsa matter, Neil? Cat got your tongue? Scrambling for a way to refute the Word of Our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #6 on: September 08, 2017, 01:27:55 PM »
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  • How strange that Neil has no response to the Scripture that clearly supplies the difference between the earth and moon, when he claimed the earth *must* be like the moon. Hilarious. No rebuttal at all.

    Whattsa matter, Neil? Cat got your tongue? Scrambling for a way to refute the Word of Our Lord Jesus Christ?
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    When you learn how to read and understand, maybe we can talk.
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    Our Lord never described the shape of the earth, and all you have to do is look to see for yourself.
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    For example, every time we see a full moon we know that the earth is not "flat." That is, if we think about what we're seeing.
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    Same goes for Scripture, if you want to read into what's there what you want to believe, then you can re-make it into your own liking.
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    But there is nothing whatsoever in the Bible that demands of us to ignore what we can see with our own eyes in the sky.
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    Now run off to your safe place where the truth won't offend you anymore.
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #7 on: September 08, 2017, 03:34:54 PM »
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  • .
    When you learn how to read and understand, maybe we can talk.
    .
    Our Lord never described the shape of the earth, and all you have to do is look to see for yourself.
    .
    For example, every time we see a full moon we know that the earth is not "flat." That is, if we think about what we're seeing.
    .
    Same goes for Scripture, if you want to read into what's there what you want to believe, then you can re-make it into your own liking.
    .
    But there is nothing whatsoever in the Bible that demands of us to ignore what we can see with our own eyes in the sky.
    .
    Now run off to your safe place where the truth won't offend you anymore.
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    Genesis in the Holy Bible clearly describes the flat earth.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #8 on: September 08, 2017, 03:49:29 PM »
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  • Genesis in the Holy Bible clearly describes the flat earth.
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    Wrong, again. It does no such thing, and it makes no mention of the shape of the earth.

    You guys can't read, apparently. Is someone reading for you? Your mother?  :baby:
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    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #9 on: September 09, 2017, 09:14:57 AM »
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  • For example, every time we see a full moon we know that the earth is not "flat." That is, if we think about what we're seeing.

    Yet another post where you make your false assumption, your false conflation, your false equivalency of the earth and moon.
    Yet another post where you studiously IGNORE the Scripture from First Corinthians where Our Lord teaches you the difference between terrestrial and celestial bodies.
    You do not answer because you HAVE no answer.
    You stand in willful defiance and rejection of Scripture every time is is given to you.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 09:03:33 PM »
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  • Yet another post where you make your false assumption, your false conflation, your false equivalency of the earth and moon.
    Yet another post where you studiously IGNORE the Scripture from First Corinthians where Our Lord teaches you the difference between terrestrial and celestial bodies.
    You do not answer because you HAVE no answer.
    You stand in willful defiance and rejection of Scripture every time is is given to you.
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    You want Scripture? I give you Scripture:
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    Modern man is prone to sneer at philosophy and deride the very thing that could be of great help to him in raising his consciousness to a higher level of awareness and appreciation of God's creation, that is, it could help him make of his soul a better, more virtuous being, which could endure all eternity. Alternatively, he could ignore all that and just be stuck in a material rut of ignorance, as if a brute animal. This is in fact what flat-earthers do when they refuse to observe and think about the phases of the moon which God has provided for their edification every day of the year.
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    It has been said that the great project of the Old Testament was preparing ancient man for the arrival of Our Lord, and the contemplation of theology, but far too many people in those days strove to keep their minds on mundane things, and to a large degree, not much has changed in that regard for many alive today. 
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    85% of Jєωs are atheists.
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    In ancient times the upper atmosphere was not something that could be experienced first hand. The X-15 was a later development.
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    Even before the X-15, however, the Challoner Bible commentary gave us what the mind of the Church understands "a firmament" to mean.
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    What does Scripture say about the firmament?
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    Genesis 1:6
     And God said: Let there be a
    firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.
    Genesis 1:7
     And God made a
    firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.
    Genesis 1:8
     And God called the
    firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.
    Genesis 1:14
     And God said: Let there be lights made in the
    firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:
    Genesis 1:15
     To shine in the
    firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth. And it was so done.
    Genesis 1:17
     And he set them in the
    firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth.
    Genesis 1:20
     God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the
    firmament of heaven.
    3 Kings (1 Kings) 8:43
     Then hear thou in heaven, in the
    firmament of thy dwelling place, and do all those things, for which that stranger shall call upon thee: that all the people of the earth may learn to fear thy name, as do thy people Israel, and may prove that thy name is called upon on this house, which I have built.
    3 Kings (1 Kings) 8:49
     Then hear thou in heaven, in the
    firmament of thy throne, their prayers, and their supplications, and do judgment for them:
    Psalms 17:3
     The Lord is my
    firmament, my refuge, and my deliverer. My God is my helper, and in him will I put my trust. My protector and the horn of my salvation, and my support.
    Psalms 18:2
     The heavens shew forth the glory of God, and the
    firmament declareth the work of his hands.
    Psalms 24:14
     The Lord is a
    firmament to them that fear him: and his covenant shall be made manifest to them.
    Psalms 70:3
     Be thou unto me a God, a protector, and a place of strength: that thou mayst make me safe. For thou art my
    firmament and my refuge.
    Psalms 71:16
     And there shall be a
    firmament on the earth on the tops of mountains, above Libanus shall the fruit thereof be exalted: and they of the city shall flourish like the grass of the earth.
    Psalms 150:1
     Praise ye the Lord in his holy places: praise ye him in the
    firmament of his power.
    Ecclesiasticus 43:1
     The
    firmament on high is his beauty, the beauty of heaven with its glorious shew.
    Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 1:22
     And over the heads of the living creatures was the likeness of the
    firmament, as the appearance of crystal terrible to behold, and stretched out over their heads above.
    Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 1:23
     And under the
    firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other, every one with two wings covered his body, and the other was covered in like manner.
    Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 1:25
     For when a voice came from above the
    firmament, that was over their heads, they stood, and let down their wings.
    Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 1:26
     And above the
    firmament that was over their heads, was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of the sapphire stone, and upon the likeness of the throne, was a likeness as of the appearance of a man above upon it.

     01
    21
    23 verses found.

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    We should be able to agree that heaven is an example of a non-material reality. Therefore, the "firmament of heaven," being not entirely unlike some aspect or property "of heaven," as Scripture literally says, is not necessarily a physically material reality.
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    For example, the north pole, the equator, the Prime Meridian and Mean Sea Level are examples of immaterial realities. Likewise, elevation above MSL, the spring equinox, and the first quarter phase of the moon are immaterial realities. These are examples of things that have no weight, no chemical composition, no alkalinity, no hardness, no transparency, no temperature and no inertia, which are immaterial properties. These are things not found in Scripture, but they are things that cannot be picked up and carried across the room. And they are not made of glass or some other hard material.
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    How many of these quotes refer to a "firmament" that is not necessarily of MATERIAL composition?





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    How many of these quotes refer to a "firmament" that is perhaps of IMMATERIAL composition?
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    (Answer: ALL of them.)
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 09:11:55 PM »
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  • The Bible commentary of Bishop Challoner explains "a firmament."
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    [6] "A firmament": By this name is here understood the whole space between the earth, and the highest stars. The lower part of which divideth the waters that are upon the earth, from those that are above in the clouds.
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    When given the option, the Church chose to apply a meaning to "a firmament" that is not a material substance.
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 10:33:10 PM »
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  • St. Hildegard's view (from GWW vol. 2 p. 456):
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #13 on: September 14, 2017, 05:05:56 AM »
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  • "All flesh is not the same flesh: but one is the flesh of men, another of beasts, another of birds, another of fishes. And there are bodies celestial, and bodies terrestrial: but, one is the glory of the celestial, and another of the terrestrial. One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, and another the glory of the stars. For star differeth from star in glory. " I Cor. 15:39-41

    Correct, the Earth is not a celestial body.

    Totally ignored by flat-earthism, indeed denied by flat-earthers, is that God's global earth includes what I consider the ongoing concursus (the influx of divine causation upon secondary causes) of what we call gravity, a concursus inherent in the above scriptural passage.

    Call this ongoing concursus what you like, but it results in that every man on earth, no matter where they are on global earth, has the sky above (HEAVEN) and the earth below them (INSIDE OF WHICH IS HELL, FURTHEST PLACE FROM HEAVEN), a feat that no man on earth is capable of repeating on a smaller scale without using super-glue. We know the moon, a celestial body as the above describes, is a globe. We can see its surface with our own eyes and more so with powerful telescopes. Top, middle and bottom consists of rock, rocks and dust. We can see that these rocks at the bottom do not fall off the planet, demonstrating this concursus 'gravity' necessary to keep things that way. God's concursus also keeps the sun and stars of the universe spinning in such a manner that for thousands of years a beam of sun-light passes through the same tiny hole of a building on Earth during the winter solstice.

    Imagine Newton's version of 'gravity,' with its endless perturbations, achieving such positional perfection over thousands of years?

    Flat-earthism would deny God this 'gravitational' concursus, the ability to create a global earth upon which everything on earth is terrestrial, and everything above is celestial as the Bible advises us. No, they deny this divine concursus and promote a creation based on mere human reasoning and a conspiracy theories that insult Catholicism and then try to convince all it is supported by the Bible, a dogma that all Catholics should believe..

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
    « Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 07:37:45 AM »
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  • Correct, the Earth is not a celestial body.

    Totally ignored by flat-earthism, indeed denied by flat-earthers, is that God's global earth includes what I consider the ongoing concursus (the influx of divine causation upon secondary causes) of what we call gravity, a concursus inherent in the above scriptural passage.
    What an outrageous presumption to make!
    You complain about those of us Catholics who read the Bible literally, yet you "assume" gravity with no evidence for it whatsoever, just so that *you* can adhere to (pun, intended) your globe earth model.
    Think of it: you acknowledge that earth is NOT a celestial body, yet you perform some imaginary mental gymnastics by inventing gravity so that you can maintain this non-celestial body is a ball. It's a breathtaking lapse of logic. Especially when one considers Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
    The flat earth model - Heaven above, waters, Firmament, plane of earth, hell below, waters of the Great Deep, in order - is the simplest, is Biblical, and requires no gravity!