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Author Topic: Dragons and dinosaurs  (Read 4779 times)

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Offline bodeens

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Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2021, 12:05:28 AM »
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  • Something escaped from wuhan lab.
    lol! In all seriousness though... It's quite possible dragons were hunted to extinction and there's some sort of Jurassic Park style experimentation to bring them back.
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
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    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #16 on: December 03, 2021, 02:59:04 PM »
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  • Commentary from the Haydock Bible concerning this verse:

    "And there was a great dragon in that place, and the Babylonians worshiped him." (Daniel 14:22)


    Ver. 22.  Dragon.  The devil had seduced our first parents in the form of a serpent, and caused most nations to adore it.  C. --- They expected benefit, or to be preserved from harm.  Valer. i. 8.  S. Aug. de Civ. Dei. xiv. 11.  W.

    Citation here


    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #17 on: December 26, 2021, 05:02:26 PM »
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  • Some literary references of flying dragons from Scandinavia:

    Excerpt from the Saga of Ketil Trout:


    Quote
    One evening after sunset Ketil took his ax in hand and went north toward an island. But he had not gotten very far away from the farm when he saw a dragon flying southward toward him from some rocky cliffs. It had a coil and a tail like a wyrm but wings like a dragon. Fire seemed to burn forth from its eyes and maw. Ketil thought he had never seen such a fish or any other such evil creature, and he would rather have had to defend himself against a host of men. The dragon attacked him, but Ketil defended himself well and manfully with his ax. So it went for a long while until Ketil was able to strike the coil and cut the dragon in two. It fell down dead.

    (The Penguin Book of Dragons, pgs. 78-79)


    Excerpt from the Saga of Þiðrekr of Bern:

    Quote
    They [Þiðrekr and Fasold] see a huge flying dragon (flugdreka). It is both long and stout; it has thick legs and claws both sharp and long. Its head is huge and terrifying. It flies along close to the ground and everywhere its claws rake the earth, it was as if the sharpest iron blade had struck it. In its mouth it is carrying a man [Sistram] and had swallowed his legs and everything up to his arms. His head and shoulders were sticking out of its mouth. His arms were in the lower jaws, and the man was still alive...They leap from their horses and draw their swords and both strike the dragon at the same time. Þiðrekr's sword cut somewhat, but Fasold's not at all. Although the dragon was big and strong, it was beyond its power to carry the man along with the weapons, and it could not rise aloft to fly or to defend itself, as it would have done if it were free. Then the man in the dragon's mouth said to Fasold: "I see that your sword does not cut into him because he is so tough-skinned. Take the sword here in the dragon's jaws; it is more likely to cut almost anything that comes under its blade, if a brave man wields it...Strike carefully. My legs have gone way down into the dragon's throat and you should take care because I do not want to be wounded by my own sword...Strike hard, good lads, because the evil dragon is squeezing me so hard with his jaws that blood is springing from my mouth and I do not know how all of this is going to turn out." Now they both struck with mighty strokes until the dragon was dead. The man was now set free from the dragon's mouth.

    (The Penguin Book of Dragons, pg. 79)


    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #18 on: December 26, 2021, 05:30:06 PM »
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  • Why Dragons Fear Lighting 

    An excerpt from Byzantine imperial court intellectual Michael Psellos (1018-ca.1075):


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    ...Is it true what what some people say, that the race of dragons fears lighting-fire, or even that this fire is actually waging a war against dragons and that it targets them with an irresistible momentum, propelled by almost voluntary powers? And what are we to make of the sights we observe in the blaze of lightning, which sometimes imitate one animal, and sometimes another?....

    As for dragons, I have not yet, to this day, come across any treatise that explains, in the terms of natural science, why they fear lightning. So once the first person has done so [that is, Psellos himself] —and I too will refer it to my conception of nature —then perhaps another person will give a more exact interpretation of it. 

    I, then, say that the race of dragons is dry by nature and fiery in substance. Even their eyes blaze forth with fire and the venom they vomit forth is smoky and it dissolves any bodies that it touches. Thus, dragons are vulnerable to fire on account of their dryness and they are liable to be burned up. Hence, they fear lightning and leap through the air looking for enclosed spaces under the earth, especially around lakes and cisterns, since, as I said, they are vulnerable to fire on account of their dryness and can be burned up by lightning fire, even from a distance. That is why, wherever a dragon appears, hissing as it passes through, lightning strikes there, ravaging the adjacent areas. It is often the case that rattling, hissing, and grunting sounds are heard even without a dragon present...But if a malicious demon should take on the body of a dragon and, pursued by fire, should lead the beast to those places where the demon was already accustomed to spread its malice, this account is not to be rejected entirely out of hand. For this is the ancient agenda of that race, on account of which it formerly drove us out of Paradise and is now attempting, again through its ill-omened malice, to remove us from the earth as well. 

    (The Penguin Book of Dragons, pgs. 120-121)


    The details about dragons being afraid of lightning are quite strange, but I think it is more important to take notice of how Psellos describes, in the highlighted section, dragons can be possessed by demons. It confirms the opinions of some who say that dragons spoken of in historical accounts were, at least in part, of demonic origin. 

    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #19 on: February 17, 2022, 08:12:19 PM »
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  • The Hava Supai Petroglyph 




    Located in Arizona's Hava Supai Canyon, it was first discovered by a prospector named E.L. Dohney in the year 1879. The pictograph measured about a foot high and seven inches wide. It clearly resembles some species of dinosaur, with its long serpentine neck and tail supported by two large feet. The most likely estimates were either an Iguanodon or a Diplodocus. 

    It was photographed and even had a cast made of it during the 1924 "Dohney Expedition" in which the man it was named after partook. The expedition was led by Samuel Hubbard, who was the Honorary Curator of Archaeology at the Oakland Museum in Oakland, California. A paleontologist was there, and not just any paleontologist, but one associated with the United States National Museum named Charles W. Gilmore, who was then Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology at that institution. 





    Concerning this find, Hubbard (unlike most establishment scientists) did not dismiss this evidence for man's coexistence with dinosaurs with a mere wave of the hand, nor did he try to assert that this drawing was "misidentification" of an animal that lived during the mythical Ice Age; rather, he admitted honestly that this find undermined "the science" in his report on the expedition entitled Discoveries Relating to Prehistoric Man:


    Quote
    The fact that some prehistoric man made a pictograph of a dinosaur on the walls of this canyon upsets completely all our theories regarding the antiquity of man. Facts are stubborn and immutable things. If theories do not square with the facts then the theories must change, the facts remain.

    (Discoveries Relating to Prehistoric Man, pg. 5 as quot. in Cowboys and Saurians, pg. 399 by John Lemay)


    Here is a brief comparison image of the pictograph with depictions of the Diplodocus:





    And since those artistic depictions are now considered outdated by modern standards, I will insert a modern illustration that also shows Diplodocus in a bipedal position. Note again the similarities:



    This seems to be the most likely candidate for the creature portrayed in the image; Hubbard believed so himself and stated this in his report, going as far to place images of the two side by side, and I find no reason to disagree with him (Cowboys and Saurians, 339). 

    Some other details concerning this pictograph is that:

    1) There were other pictographs near it that portrayed evidently non-extinct animals such as snakes and goats. 

    2) Hubbard believed that whoever drew this image must have seen this animal alive due its upright posture. 

    3) On the edge of the Painted Desert (not far from the canyon) fossilized dinosaur tracks were found, proving that they had been roaming about this area at some point in the past. 


    I might write another post about this subject, as there is more about it that I'd like to share. 




    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #20 on: February 17, 2022, 09:00:31 PM »
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  • Fr. Chazal actually talked about Dinosaurs in his recent sermon, equating them with dragons.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-sermons/from-the-depths-of-hell-fr-chazal-mcspx/

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #21 on: February 17, 2022, 09:30:22 PM »
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  • Fr. Chazal actually talked about Dinosaurs in his recent sermon, equating them with dragons.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-sermons/from-the-depths-of-hell-fr-chazal-mcspx/

    I noticed this when I listened to it a few days ago, glad that he mentioned this. Inspired me to post more on this subject here on CI.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #22 on: February 17, 2022, 09:36:39 PM »
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  • I noticed this when I listened to it a few days ago, glad that he mentioned this. Inspired me to post more on this subject here on CI.
    Yes, same here. I initially dismissed dinosaurs as fiction dreamed up by the overactive imaginations of evolutionists, but, further digging has shown that these creatures existed. Much to the rejoicing of my fatherly heart since my son loves dinosaurs. A good short article from the Kolbe Center: https://www.kolbecenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Historical-Evidence-for-Dinosaur-and-Human-Co-existence.pdf

    A
    s a side note: I'm of the opinion that Antediluvian man was proportionately larger and more powerful than modern man (not giants, as those are separate), making the prospect of large reptiles much more reasonable and less of an immediate threat. I base this, somewhat, on a current reading of Anne Catherine Emmerich's visions of the antediluvian world.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #23 on: February 18, 2022, 08:41:22 AM »
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  • A pretty good Biblical explanation of the fossil record through flood paleontology 

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #24 on: February 18, 2022, 08:51:30 AM »
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  • One reason dinos and dragons aren't around much anymore -- man tends to exterminate ferocious wild beasts first thing, when he settles a new area.

    And yes, man used to be larger, healthier, smarter, and more hardy, especially before the Flood. Man, with his faculty of Reason, would have made short work of these larger beasts, just as he has done with smaller ones. Look at how easily Daniel destroys the live dragon in Scripture. Just some hair, fat, and pitch -- and the dragon dies. Brains beats brawn almost every time.

    P.S. there were never any dumb "cavemen" wearing skins and wielding clubs. Men might have dwelt in caves for a short period after a disaster, including the Flood, but that's it. Man has always had full use of Reason, he could build tools (including projectiles like arrows, "darts", catapults, etc.), and was always a force to be reckoned with. Even in ancient times.

    And if anything, man was smarter back then.

    If a 12 year old from 2022 and a 12 year old from 1000 BC were put into ANY kind of competition, my money would be on the ancient kid. I don't care if it's physical, practical, mental, or scientific. Just remember: your 12 year old knows NOTHING about how that iPhone actually works. And there IS a downside to relying on Google and Google Maps for everything.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #25 on: February 18, 2022, 09:04:33 AM »
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  • P.S. there were never any dumb "cavemen" wearing skins and wielding clubs. Men might have dwelt in caves for a short period after a disaster, including the Flood, but that's it. Man has always had full use of Reason, he could build tools (including projectiles like arrows, "darts", catapults, etc.), and was always a force to be reckoned with. Even in ancient times.
    Absolutely. The only "feral" men were most likely the progeny of Cain for a time, until Tubalcain started constructing cities and technologies. Not to mention the giants who, at least according to Anne Catherine Emmerich, were not stupid brutes but extremely intelligent and crafty. I love Chesterton's opening to "The Everlasting Man" where he makes fun of the caveman myth, noting that even cave paintings have a skill and fluidity to them that would be impossible for subhuman brutes, a form not even modern men can recreate (much like many post-diluvian wonders of antiquity)

    Man, I love looking into the antediluvian period
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #26 on: February 18, 2022, 09:16:56 AM »
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  • Man, I love looking into the antediluvian period

    Me too. It fires the imagination. And even more so, because it's TRUE and not just the work of some author's imagination.

    Like those structures built with megoliths (massive stones) that use NO MORTAR and you can't even slip a piece of paper between them. And they're still standing today. And then there's the small model airplanes they dug up in South America, which turned out to be aerodynamically sound! They built planes to that exact design and dimensions, and they flew!

    And as I've pointed out: imagine living to be 700-900 years old. Imagine how educated you could become. Imagine how high your skill in a given craft could be. Imagine the cross-discipline possibilities! Could you imagine Tesla still alive today? How about all the brilliant pioneers of electronics who gave their names to everything, still alive today -- and adding to their knowledge? Imagine them getting into software and other related disciplines, with their still-young 200-something-year-old minds?

    Imagine Michelson and Morley getting PERSONALLY INVOLVED in today's geocentrism and flat earth debates! I bet there would be a lot less error, with a plethora of wise men and geniuses around to set us straight.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #27 on: February 18, 2022, 09:20:17 AM »
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  • And yet, as we know from Scripture, this same longevity led to serious and widespread errors that necessitated the Deluge.

    I started reading Ignatius Donnelly's book on Atlantis, which paints an interesting picture of that antediluvian civilization which has been relegated to myth and legend rather than historical fact

    https://archive.org/details/Atlantis1882
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Romulus

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #28 on: February 18, 2022, 10:20:00 AM »
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  • I was wondering what you all thought about the existence of creatures like vampires and werewolves. Its interesting how they are in every culture around the world just like dragons are. I think if they did, they have something to do with demonic possession.

    Offline Emile

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    Re: Dragons and dinosaurs
    « Reply #29 on: February 18, 2022, 10:28:23 AM »
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  • I was wondering what you all thought about the existence of creatures like vampires and werewolves. Its interesting how they are in every culture around the world just like dragons are. I think if they did, they have something to do with demonic possession.
    It's not a subject that I have spent a great deal of time on but Montague Summers seems to be pretty knowledgeable.

    https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/867837.Vampires_and_Vampirism

    https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/764633.The_Werewolf_in_Lore_and_Legend
    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer