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Author Topic: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong  (Read 5141 times)

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Offline klasG4e

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Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2018, 07:13:42 PM »
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  • Sungenis is using a soft opening checking opposition to his model.  After speaking with him, it is clear that he has no solid evidence earth is a globe, but only remains his opinion.  700 pages of opinion he cannot prove.  He knows little to nothing about the Fathers of the Church and their writings on the subject.  He insists Scripture must be interpreted literally when it comes to moving earth, but not literally when it comes to earth's shape.  He thinks man went to the moon, or, if they didn't, then maybe NASA lied, but NASA doesn't always lie and he uses a lot of data from them. Sadly, every answer he provides directly or through his side-kick Rick Delano, he is unable to deal with the physical or spiritual questions coming at him.  I seriously doubt it's even possible for someone who's written two books and produced a movie supporting the globe can ever permit the truth to penetrate long enough to seriously consider the particulars involved.  I'm still waiting for answers to questions.  

    Hope you will let us know what you think of his book after you have actually read it.  He stated that he wanted to examine and answer every scientific claim put forth for a flat earth.

    Since you and some others on this forum seem to know so much about the flat earth and hold Sungenis in contempt for supposedly knowing so little about it why don't you ask to publicly debate him on the subject rather than merely toss invective at him?  Is that asking too much?

    You say, "he thinks man went to the moon."  Actually, he has many times expressed grave doubts as to whether man has gone to the moon.

    Sungenis spent 9 months of hard labor researching and writing his book, Flat Earth, Flat Wrong.  I'm sorry you dismiss that good faith effort so casually.  Perhaps, you will in good faith read his book and seriously consider what he has put forth in it and then report back to us.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #16 on: June 27, 2018, 07:33:15 PM »
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  • Did you not watch the interview? 

    He's plain in saying he's a hired hand. He was paid to write the book by Hugh Owen. 


    Owen gave him a 30+ page manuscript and he expanded it to 700+.


    Thing is, he doesn't understand the basic flat earth model (which is not complicated at all). He literally cannot articulate it in his own words. This makes right thinking observers such as Happenby question the thoroughness of his research.


    Collating information from other writers into a volume and slapping your name on it does not make you knowledgeable.

    That said, I'd read it.


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #17 on: June 27, 2018, 08:04:55 PM »
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  • Did you not watch the interview?

    He's plain in saying he's a hired hand. He was paid to write the book by Hugh Owen.


    Owen gave him a 30+ page manuscript and he expanded it to 700+.


    Thing is, he doesn't understand the basic flat earth model (which is not complicated at all). He literally cannot articulate it in his own words. This makes right thinking observers such as Happenby question the thoroughness of his research.


    Collating information from other writers into a volume and slapping your name on it does not make you knowledgeable.

    That said, I'd read it.

    So someone paid him to write the book -- Hugh Owen, the founder and director of the Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation.  Do you have a problem with someone like Hugh Owen paying him to write the book?  Do you see something nefarious in that?  Is not a man worthy of his labors.  Some of the greatest intellectual achievements as well as artistic achievements in the history of the world were done as a result of some person or persons commissioning another individual to carry out the work.  That doesn't necessarily mean the work is pre-ordained to reach certain conclusions.

    Why do you fault him for writing 700+ pages?  Would you rather he only wrote 50?, 100?, or 200?
    I don't have a problem with people questioning Sungenis' work after they have examined it, but to rush to judgment without examining the work is something of quite a different order.

    In any event Smed, I am very happy that you seem to be keeping to some degree an open mind as expressed in your statement, "That said, I'd read it."  Please report back!

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #18 on: June 27, 2018, 08:25:14 PM »
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  • No, I have no problem with him accepting a paid writing assignment.

    I have an issue with Owen's REASON for giving him the assignment and Sungenis's agreement with it: Owen seeks to squash the discussion of flat earth. It's very important to him.



    Sungenis's partner, Rick DeLano,  has a very irrational hatred for flat earthers,  which stems from the fact that 3 major flat earth YT channels released FE films just prior to the release of The Principle, and they went viral and it killed his movie. Well, DeLano's bad publicity killed it too, but I digress.

    Sungenis likely will not debate a FE Catholic if he's wasting time with clowns like Subirats.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #19 on: June 27, 2018, 11:29:52 PM »
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  • Thing is, he doesn't understand the basic flat earth model (which is not complicated at all).
    He literally cannot articulate it in his own words.
    This makes right thinking observers such as Happenby question the thoroughness of his research.



    .
    Wrong "thing." 
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    Thing is, there isn't any flat-earth model.
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    But go ahead and prove me wrong by articulating it in YOUR own words, since it's "not complicated at all."
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: flatearthflatwrong.com
    « Reply #20 on: June 28, 2018, 04:42:44 AM »
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  • http://www.flatearthflatwrong.com/ is currently a parked domain…
    .
    A week later and it's still dormant. Maybe someone else put down some money on it now they have to fight it out.
    .
    Meanwhile, back at the Ranch...........
    .
    It perplexes us to see that belief in a “flat earth” is gaining traction, despite being thoroughly debunked for thousands of years. This idea was almost non-existent until recently, yet this particular branch of pseudoscience is making inroads. It’s notable that the article The Flat Earth Myth, busting the myth that the church taught a flat earth, written as recently as 2013, did not receive any negative comments from flat-earth believers. Why? Because there were hardly any people back then who believed it! Rather, readers were grateful to see that the church had never taught this nonsense. Several honest atheists have even slammed people from their own side who have pushed a bad pseudo-history that accuses the church of teaching a flat earth.1
    .

    So, if almost nobody believed it back then, why do some people believe it now? This includes several who commented on an article published earlier this year: Isaiah 40:22 and the shape of the earth. Most of the influence today is coming from a series of online videos that have been shared widely. These were created by charlatans and, sadly, are deceiving many. Even more sadly, some Christians are being caught up in the hype.
    .
    There are people who believe that the moon landings were faked with the primitive video technology of 1969. Yet they are totally oblivious to the fact that the video technology of 2016 could easily fake a flat earth!
    .
    It is not our business to warn people about each and every false idea that comes up, but only when the idea directly impinges on a straightforward biblical teaching. Thus, we steer clear of 9-11 cօռspιʀαcιҽs, but directly engage with people who attempt to claim the moon landings were a hoax on our Arguments Creationists Should Not Use page. Why? Because the first, even though it deals directly with physics, is enmeshed in too much conspiratorial gobbledygook. The second, however, gets into how we see the world, how the universe works, how science proceeds, and how we can tell what is true and what is not.
    .
    Even though we have addressed the Flat Earth Myth multiple times (see Related Articles, below), and even though we have gone into the biblical and scientific arguments against it, people have recently started to ask us about it (or criticize us for our firm global-earth view). Our only conclusion is that the Internet is breeding people who have trouble thinking through important ideas.
    .
    .
    ...............And what kind of Internet-brood would that be? Well, the flat-earthdown-syndromers, of course!
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    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #21 on: June 28, 2018, 09:59:58 AM »
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  • The Protestant author you quoted,  Jonathan Sarfati, would like Sungenis because they both agree about a literal interpretation of Genesis and the Bible on Creation, but not on the literal description of the shape of Creation. Ironic.

    However, even Sungenis admits the FACT that the Church Fathers held flat earth, in disagreement woth Sarfati.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #22 on: June 28, 2018, 02:02:53 PM »
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  • .
    Johnathan Sarfati is a contributing author at Creation Ministries International:
    .
    .
    It perplexes us to see that belief in a “flat earth” is gaining traction, despite being thoroughly debunked for thousands of years. This idea was almost non-existent until recently, yet this particular branch of pseudoscience is making inroads. It’s notable that the article The Flat Earth Myth, by Johnathan Sarfati, busting the myth that the church taught a flat earth, written as recently as 2013, did not receive any negative comments from flat-earth believers. Why? Because there were hardly any people back then who believed it! Rather, readers were grateful to see that the church had never taught this nonsense. Several honest atheists have even slammed people from their own side who have pushed a bad pseudo-history that accuses the church of teaching a flat earth.1
    https://creation.com/flat-earth-myth

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    The Flat Earth Myth

    What did the early church really teach?
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    Historian Jeffrey Burton Russell (1934–) thoroughly debunked the flat earth myth over 20 years ago in his definitive study Inventing the Flat Earth.5
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    The famous evolutionist Stephen Jay Gould (1941–2002) favourably reviewed this masterpiece:
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    “There never was a period of ‘flat earth darkness’ among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the earth’s roundness as an established fact of cosmology.”6
    .
    Russell showed that flat-earth belief was extremely rare in the Church. The flat earth’s two main proponents were obscure figures named Lactantius (c. 240 – c. 320) and Cosmas Indicopleustes (6th century; the last name means “voyager to India”). However, they were hugely outweighed by tens of thousands of Christian theologians, poets, artists, scientists, and rulers who unambiguously affirmed that the earth was round. Russell docuмents accounts supporting earth’s sphericity from numerous medieval church scholars such as friar Roger Bacon (1220–1292), inventor of spectacles; leading medieval scientists such as John Buridan (1301–1358 ) and Nicholas Oresme (1320–1382); the monk John of Sacrobosco (c. 1195–c. 1256) who wrote Treatise on the Sphere, and many more.
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    One of the best-known proponents of a globe-shaped earth was the early English monk, theologian and historian, the Venerable Bede (673–735), who popularized the common BC/ AD dating system. Less well known was that he was also a leading astronomer of his day.7
    .
    In his book On the Reckoning of Time (De temporum ratione), among other things he calculated the creation of the world to be in 3952 BC, showed how to calculate the date of Easter, and explicitly taught that the earth was round. From this, he showed why the length of days and nights changed with the seasons, and how tides were dragged by the moon. Bede was the first with this insight, while Galileo explained the tides wrongly centuries later.8
    .
    Here is what Bede said about the shape of the earth—round “like a ball” not “like a shield”:
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    “We call the earth a globe, not as if the shape of a sphere were expressed in the diversity of plains and mountains, but because, if all things are included in the outline, the earth’s circuмference will represent the figure of a perfect globe. … For truly it is an orb placed in the centre of the universe; in its width it is like a circle, and not circular like a shield but rather like a ball, and it extends from its centre with perfect roundness on all sides.”
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    And the leading church theologian and philosopher of the Middle Ages, Thomas Aquinas (1225–1274), wrote in his greatest work Summa Theologica/Theologiae:
    '
    “The physicist proves the earth to be round by one means, the astronomer by another: for the latter proves this by means of mathematics, e.g. by the shapes of eclipses, or something of the sort; while the former proves it by means of physics, e.g. by the movement of heavy bodies towards the centre, and so forth.”9
    ...

    • Almost all the early and medieval church scholars who commented on the earth’s shape explicitly said it was round.
    • .
    • Medieval European rulers used a golden sphere or orb called the globus cruciger to represent the earth under Christ’s rule.
    • .
    • Columbus’s opponents never disputed the shape of the earth, but only its size—and they were right!
    • .
    • The flat earth myth began with a fictional account of Columbus in the 19th century by Washington Irving. Then it was aggressively pushed in influential anti-Christian polemics by Draper and White.
    • .
    • A final irony: the leading flat-earther today is an evolutionist!
    • .
    • Select Footnotes:
    • 1. Sarfati, J., Evolutionist: it’s OK to deceive students to believe evolution, creation.com/deceive, 24 September 2008.
    • .
    • 5. Russell, J.B., Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus & Modern Historians, Praeger, 1991.
    • .
    • 6. Gould, S.J., The Late Birth of a Flat Earth, in: Dinosaur in a Haystack: Reflections in Natural History, 1st paperback ed., pp. 38–50, New York: Three Rivers Press, NY,1997.
    • .
    • 7. Henderson, T., World-famous astronomers celebrate the Venerable Bede, The Journal, journallive.co.uk, 13 February 2009.
    • .
    • 8. The Galileo affair is another anti-Christian myth of ‘religion v. Science’, although it was really science vs. science. See Sarfati, J., Galileo Quadricentennial: Myth vs fact, Creation 31(3):49–51; creation.com/galileo-quadricentennial.
    • .
    • 9. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, First Part of the Second Part, Question 54: The distinction of habits, Article 2, Reply to objection 2.

      And almost right at the beginning of the Summa, in First Part, Q 1, article 1: Article 1. Whether, besides philosophy, any further doctrine is required?, Reply to Objection 2 Thomas discussed methods of proving something. Here, he referred to the roundness of the earth as an example obvious to all: “Sciences are differentiated according to the various means through which knowledge is obtained. For the astronomer and the physicist both may prove the same conclusion: that the earth, for instance, is round: the astronomer by means of mathematics (i.e. abstracting from matter), but the physicist by means of matter itself. Hence there is no reason why those things which may be learned from philosophical science, so far as they can be known by natural reason, may not also be taught us by another science so far as they fall within revelation. Hence theology included in sacred doctrine differs in kind from that theology which is part of philosophy.”

      In the original Latin, Thomas used rotunda for round. And in First Part, Question 67, Thomas made it clear that he knew the shape of the earth, because he also used the word hemisphere (Latin hemisphaerium), meaning half of a sphere: “Yet as soon as the sun is at the horizon, the whole hemisphere is illuminated from end to end. … Secondly, as to place, for in one hemisphere there was light, in the other darkness. Thirdly, as to time; because there was light for one and darkness for another in the same hemisphere; and this is signified by the words, “He called the light day, and the darkness night.”
    • .
    • Primary source docuмentation is available in my articles, Why does science work at all? Creation 31(3):12–14, 2009; creation.com/whyscience; and, The biblical roots of modern science, Creation 32(4):32–36, 2010; creation.com/roots.
    • .
    • Russell, C.A., “The Conflict of Science and Religion”, in: Encyclopedia of the History of Science and Religion, p. 15, New York 2000.
    • .
    • Wolchover, N., Ingenious ‘Flat Earth’ Theory Revealed In Old Map, Live Science, 23 June 2011.
    • .
    • Works of Aristotle I: p. 389.
    • .
    • [Ed. note: Several atheopaths have attacked both Isaiah and Bede because the earth is not a perfect sphere, although even Bede understood that it has irregularities “similar to a potato” such as mountains and deep-sea trenches. But he realized that this was a tiny deviation from sphericity; that it was reasonable to call the earth a "sphere." Also, long after Bede, it was predicted, then discovered, that the earth is an oblate spheroid, i.e. flattened at the poles. In reality, ‘sphere’ is a very good approximation for the shape of the earth, not an error. Most astronomers today are OK with calling the earth a ‘globe’ or ‘sphere’, knowing full well that it’s an approximation. So the same allowance should be made for the Bible. Actually, Sir Isaac Newton, a creationist, was the one who first predicted oblateness from the earth’s rotation.

      Simple arithmetic should demonstrate how vacuous and desperate this objection is. The earth’s equatorial radius 6,378.1 km, while its polar radius 6,356.8 km. The deepest point in the ocean, Challenger Deep, is 10,916 km deep—<0.2% deviation from sphericity. Ever seen a potato, or even a rubber ball, this spherical? Also, the oblateness, given that the difference between polar and equatorial radii is only 21.3 km, is only 0.3% deviation from a sphere.

      In most usages, there are degrees of perfection or accuracy. The earth is a perfect sphere down to about 0.3%, which is perfect enough for most people. Scale this down to the size of some playing balls: if a ball were 63.781 mm in one radius and 63.568 mm in a perpendicular radius, one could safely call its shape a ‘globe’ or ‘sphere’. It would take a sharp eye indeed to notice that a ~6½-cm ball bulged a bit in the middle, by merely a fifth of a millimetre.]
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #23 on: June 28, 2018, 02:50:20 PM »
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    Where the editor for the Internet page I copied, above, has said the following:
    .
    Ed. note: Several atheopaths have attacked both Isaiah and Bede because the earth is not a perfect sphere, although even Bede understood that it has irregularities “similar to a potato” such as mountains and deep-sea trenches. But he realized that this was a tiny deviation from sphericity; that it was reasonable to call the earth a "sphere." Also, long after Bede, it was predicted, then discovered, that the earth is an oblate spheroid, i.e. flattened at the poles. In reality, ‘sphere’ is a very good approximation for the shape of the earth, not an error. Most astronomers today are OK with calling the earth a ‘globe’ or ‘sphere’, knowing full well that it’s an approximation. So the same allowance should be made for the Bible. Actually, Sir Isaac Newton, a creationist, was the one who first predicted oblateness from the earth’s rotation...
    .
    ...he was beginning to touch on the difference between our modern concept of the earth's sphericity and that of the ancients.
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    With the help of satellites and computers today, we are able to get a far more accurate understanding of the earth's external contours, by which we have endeavored to propose a variety of models in order to simplify our world view. It is a common theme to find ways of simplifying complex reality, and in so doing one ellipsoid model might be chosen while another model is rejected. That doesn't mean the rejected model is "wrong," but that it is merely not as good as another for a particular application. We have come up with several different ellipsoid models over the past 40 years, some of which are more commonly used in particular regions of the earth where other ellipsoid models are selectively ignored. An ellipsoid is a theoretical ideal geometrical deformed sphere which may pass above or below specific surface locations on the earth, whether they be solid land or the surface of bodies of water. Generally speaking, a particular ellipsoid is more useful when it passes ABOVE a given surface area, but not very far above it (such as 5 meters, or 27 meters, but not 100 meters). Given a choice between using an ellipsoid that passes 1 meter below a particular point of interest and another that passes 10 meters above the same point, usually the latter is preferred.
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    There is a lot to say about ellipsoids and each one of them entails mountains of data..............  iow TLDR ...............
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    Bottom line: it's not even a matter of whether the earth is "flat" or spheroid.
    It is rather a question of what precisely the shape is of the spheroidial earth.
    Is it a spherical shape like this, or is it a slightly different spherical shape like this?
    And to the vast majority of causal observers, the differences between them are so minor as to be of no interest. TLDR again.
    .
    Another abstract model in common usage is the geoid. But there is a huge difference between the geoid and any particular ellipsoid.
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    When one refers to ellipsoid, one must identify WHICH ellipsoid is being used, because there are a variety to select from.
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    But when one refers to the geoid, there is only one of those: The Geoid.
    (But for whatever reason, the G is conventionally not upper case: "the geoid.")
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #24 on: June 28, 2018, 03:07:48 PM »
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  • .
    Consequently, there is an enormous difference between "flat" earth and spheroidal earth:
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    There is NO "flat" earth model, but there are numerous spheroidal earth models.                                       
    .
    .

    Flat-earthers cannot manage to agree on what they're talking about. It's the Tower of Babel all over again!
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    They have exiled themselves away from discussion because they can't so much as agree with one another.
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    If it were not for the one thing they fight against, they would have little or nothing in common.
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    Many flat-earthers are atheists, most of them are Protestants, a lot are Moslems, and a very few claim to be Catholic.
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    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: flatearthflatwrong.com
    « Reply #25 on: June 28, 2018, 04:01:57 PM »
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    It is not our business to warn people about each and every false idea that comes up, but only when the idea directly impinges on a straightforward biblical teaching. Thus, we steer clear of 9-11 cօռspιʀαcιҽs.

    What is it with this polite (and sometimes downright rude and even obscene) marginalization and or denigration by traditional Catholics of those who believe it is not only their business, but in some cases their patriotic duty as Christians, to warn people about the monstrously evil 9-11 lie our own government has foisted on the American people and to some extent a lot of other people in the world?

    In doing this they often use code words or catch phrases like conspiracy theory since that seems to so often elicit a dumbed down Pavlovian like complimentary response and or a quick termination of the discussion.

    One need not get bogged down in all the details of possible 9-11 versions to realize that our government clearly lied to us in a horrible way (I won't get into the separate issue/problem of cognitive dissonance here) and not only that, but that the 9-11 lie fits not unsurprisingly into a long history of horrendous lies foisted on to the American public to bring us into wars and ruinous foreign incursions.  The cost of these lies has been trillions of U.S. dollars and tens of thousands of American battlefield deaths and countless more injuries and ruined lives.  The cost to the people of other nations has even been much worse.

    I can't speak personally for you Neil in regards to whether you yourself should ever talk to people about 9-11.  For all I know, you might be in no position to intelligently do so.  That said I would certainly hope that you could refrain from begrudging your fellow traditional Catholics their right, if not even their duty in some instances, to try to inform others about the truth of 9-11.  After all these years of exposure, I'd venture to say that a self-instructed 15 year old of average intelligence could easily and clearly refute the false narrative (9-11 conspiracy/fantasy) the U.S. Government has pushed on us as a sort of secular dogma.

    So, please don't lump in the obscene U.S. government version of 9-11 that has resulted in an almost incalculable horror for much of the American public, not to mention a far more wide spread horror for countless innocent people abroad as just a "false idea that comes up."  If you wish to in your words, "steer clear of 9-11" let it be on you, but please don't try to discourage us as civilized human beings, not to mention in many cases patriotic traditional Catholics, from doing so.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #26 on: June 28, 2018, 04:36:59 PM »
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    I posted the link to the article I was quoting.
    Quote
    Meanwhile, back at the Ranch...........
    What follows are not my words. But when I use a quote box the stupid platform deletes its contents when someone else quotes my post. So I don't use the rotten quote box very often. Try quoting this post and watch the quote box, above, disappear! Try it! See for yourself!
    .
    I don't have any problem with calling out the deception of the "official" version (NIST) of what happened on 9-11-2001. Or Pearl Harbor. Or the USS Liberty. Or the Gulf of Tonkin. Or the Alfred P. Murrah Federal building, OK City. Or Waco, TX. On and on. I almost cut that 9-11 part out to prevent confusion but I thought it wouldn't be confusing. I guess I was wrong.
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    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #27 on: June 28, 2018, 06:45:42 PM »
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    I posted the link to the article I was quoting. What follows are not my words. But when I use a quote box the stupid platform deletes its contents when someone else quotes my post. So I don't use the rotten quote box very often. Try quoting this post and watch the quote box, above, disappear! Try it! See for yourself!
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    I don't have any problem with calling out the deception of the "official" version (NIST) of what happened on 9-11-2001. Or Pearl Harbor. Or the USS Liberty. Or the Gulf of Tonkin. Or the Alfred P. Murrah Federal building, OK City. Or Waco, TX. On and on. I almost cut that 9-11 part out to prevent confusion but I thought it wouldn't be confusing. I guess I was wrong.
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    Thanks for the clarification Neil.  Sorry if I caused you any grief.   My mistake!

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #28 on: June 28, 2018, 08:13:00 PM »
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  • Hope you will let us know what you think of his book after you have actually read it.  He stated that he wanted to examine and answer every scientific claim put forth for a flat earth.

    Since you and some others on this forum seem to know so much about the flat earth and hold Sungenis in contempt for supposedly knowing so little about it why don't you ask to publicly debate him on the subject rather than merely toss invective at him?  Is that asking too much?

    You say, "he thinks man went to the moon."  Actually, he has many times expressed grave doubts as to whether man has gone to the moon.

    Sungenis spent 9 months of hard labor researching and writing his book, Flat Earth, Flat Wrong.  I'm sorry you dismiss that good faith effort so casually.  Perhaps, you will in good faith read his book and seriously consider what he has put forth in it and then report back to us.
    I really am not dismissing good faith effort.  I listened to Sungenis on his live stream, I've read his articles and watched his videos against flat earth. Seems the book won't have anything different to offer, just more of what he's already saying.  I will probably read it at some point and I will report what I see and try to be as fair as possible and give proof for any critiques. 

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Dr. Robert Sungenis Debuts New Book: Flat Earth, Flat Wrong
    « Reply #29 on: June 29, 2018, 04:09:55 AM »
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  • Thanks for the clarification Neil.  Sorry if I caused you any grief.   My mistake!
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    I don't blame you for reacting that way if you thought I had written it. 
    I should be more careful to show when I'm quoting someone else.
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