Author Topic: Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?  (Read 4039 times)

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Offline ajpirc

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Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
« on: July 26, 2011, 09:01:12 PM »
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  • The resistance movement of CAF; although it may FEEL charitable to tell non-Catholics that they can be saved, it is not charitable to let them stay outside of the Church to be damned forever. This is a false charity. See how many of their answers sound Protestant:

    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?

    Any thoughts on this? I found many quotes by Saints and Popes disagreeing with their view. Any other ideas on how to approach this?
    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev

    Offline LordPhan

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    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
    « Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 09:39:37 PM »
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  • From the Council of Florence

    Quote
    Sixthly, we offer to the envoys that compendious rule of the faith composed by most blessed Athanasius, which is as follows:

    Whoever wills to be saved, before all things it is necessary that he holds the catholic faith. Unless a person keeps this faith whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish eternally. The catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in the Trinity, and the Trinity in unity, neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the holy Spirit is one, the glory equal, and the majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the holy Spirit. The Father uncreated the Son uncreated and the holy Spirit uncreated. The Father infinite, the Son infinite and the holy Spirit infinite. The Father eternal, the Son eternal and the holy Spirit eternal. Yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal. As also they are not three uncreateds nor three infinites, but one uncreated and one infinite. Likewise the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty and the holy Spirit is almighty. Yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty. Likewise the Father is God, the Son is God and the holy Spirit is God. Yet they are not three gods, but one God. Likewise the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord and the holy Spirit is Lord. Yet they are not three lords, but one Lord. For just as we are compelled by the christian truth to acknowledge each person by himself to be God and Lord, so we are forbidden by the catholic religion to say there are three gods or three lords. The Father is made by none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is from the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten. The holy Spirit is from the Father and the Son; not made nor created nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one holy Spirit, not three holy spirits. And in this Trinity nothing is before or after, nothing is greater or less; but the whole three persons are co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as has been said above, the unity in Trinity and the Trinity in unity is to be worshipped. Whoever, therefore, wishes to be saved, let him think thus of the Trinity.

    It is also necessary for salvation to believe faithfully the incarnation of our lord Jesus Christ. The right faith, therefore, is that we believe and confess that our lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, is God and man. God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the ages; and man, of the substance of his mother, born in the world. Perfect God, perfect man, subsisting of a rational soul and human flesh. Equal to the Father according to his Godhead, less than the Father according to his humanity. Although he is God and man, he is not two, but one Christ. One, however, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by the taking of humanity into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as a reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ. He suffered for our salvation and descended into hell. On the third day he rose from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. Thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good shall go into eternal life, but those who have done evil shall go into eternal fire.

    This is the catholic faith. Unless a person believes it faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.



    Offline Vladimir

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    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
    « Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 09:57:56 PM »
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  • The issue isn't whether a non-Catholic can enter Heaven as a non-Catholic (we all know by now that they can't). The issue is how to present this fact to non-Catholics in such a manner that encourages, not hinders, potential conversion.

    Perhaps the best way is simply to live a Catholic life and pray for their conversion.



    Offline Caraffa

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    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
    « Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 10:00:12 PM »
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  • Does anyone else see the irony in the person who posted Pat Madrid's and Pete Vere's "More Catholic than the Pope" (I could go off on that point alone, but I won't) as a way to counter the "extreme Trad view" when one considers than Vere is a Feeneyite?
    Pray for me, always.

    Offline ajpirc

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    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
    « Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 10:03:53 PM »
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  • What about other Catholic dogma? Purgatory, 7 Sacraments, Immaculate Conception of Mary, Assumption of Mary, the Real Presence, Papal infallibility, the Catholic Church being the true and only Church of Christ, priests can absolve sins, mortal sin, necessity of baptism for salvation, sanctity of marriage, abortion being immoral, contraception being immoral, and all other Catholic dogma? Only the dogma of the Trinity and Divinity of Christ have to be accepted as the Catholic Faith that is necessary for salvation. If this is the case, then all "Christians" have the true Faith.
    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev


    Offline LordPhan

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    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
    « Reply #5 on: July 26, 2011, 10:50:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: ajpirc
    What about other Catholic dogma? Purgatory, 7 Sacraments, Immaculate Conception of Mary, Assumption of Mary, the Real Presence, Papal infallibility, the Catholic Church being the true and only Church of Christ, priests can absolve sins, mortal sin, necessity of baptism for salvation, sanctity of marriage, abortion being immoral, contraception being immoral, and all other Catholic dogma? Only the dogma of the Trinity and Divinity of Christ have to be accepted as the Catholic Faith that is necessary for salvation. If this is the case, then all "Christians" have the true Faith.


    They Key points from the quote were that one had to be in the Catholic Church, the Council of Florence was Quoting from St. Athanasius who led the trads during the Arian Crisis and won.

    At that time the major crisis of faith revolved around the Holy Trinity.

    The other things you asked about are covered elsewhere with anethama's attached and if you are anethama you are outside the church and damned.

    Offline LordPhan

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    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
    « Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 07:33:20 AM »
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  • I'd also like to add that their are 2 types of Laws in the Catholic Church, one can be changed the other cannot.

    Dogmatic laws cannot be changed. If anyone should try to change them they are outside the church and condemned to hell.

    Man-made laws can be changed.

    Any law with an anethama attached to it is dogmatic. It is a defined Dogma that one cannot be a Modernist and a Catholic.



    Offline ajpirc

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    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
    « Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 04:03:35 PM »
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  • Thank you for clarifying your point LordPhan.
    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
    « Reply #8 on: July 28, 2011, 11:13:18 AM »
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  • Does anyone believe that it is possible for a Protestant to die in the state of grace?  If yes, would he be saved?

    I say yes, because although to the world he died a Protestant, but in the eyes of God he was a Catholic.  

    Offline ajpirc

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    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
    « Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 12:36:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Does anyone believe that it is possible for a Protestant to die in the state of grace?  If yes, would he be saved?

    I say yes, because although to the world he died a Protestant, but in the eyes of God he was a Catholic.  


    I understand what you're saying and I somewhat agree.

    It would be a lie to call them a Protestant, because they are Catholic, though.

    This is in certain circumstances.

    All under the age of reason, but who have been baptized are Catholic and in the state of grace, even if they're being raised as Protestants. Once they hit the age of reason and continue their lives in heresy, they leave the Church and are no longer in the state of grace.

    Someone that hasn't been accepted into the Church, though wish to enter by having the will to become Catholic though die before they enter can be incorporated into the Church. Although they may have been considered Baptist by their friends and family, they were no longer one because they accepted the Church as the True Church and Her teachings.

    A Protestant can't willingly accept heresy and be in the state of grace.
    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
    « Reply #10 on: July 28, 2011, 01:30:36 PM »
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  • I agree, and this is why the Catholic church also teaches that we should never, ever try to judge the soul of a person  who is dead.  

    Don't get me wrong, I believe in no salvation outside the Church, but I also believe that sometime it is hard to say who is exactly outside the Church after they have passed away.  The key words are: after they have passed away.

    Your souls is fixed at the hour of your death, it is fixed forever.



    Offline ajpirc

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    Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?
    « Reply #11 on: July 28, 2011, 02:06:04 PM »
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  • Yes, but I do have to say that most people who die as Protestants are not saved.

    Those with reason and don't believe Catholic Dogma will be damned for eternity. God enlightens every man with the Catholic Faith during his lifetime; he who does not enter the Church will be damned. In regard to BOD, I don't think God would take the lives of  those who want to become Catholic before they do. As merciful as He is, I would think He would allow them to enter before he takes their souls.

    He who is not in union with the Supreme Pontiff forfeits his salvation.
    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev


     

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