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Author Topic: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?  (Read 1513 times)

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Offline MorrisBDicke

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Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
« on: November 20, 2018, 08:02:40 PM »
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  • He participated in himself, did he ever gripe about it thereafter? 


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #1 on: November 20, 2018, 08:31:05 PM »
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  • He participated in himself, did he ever gripe about it thereafter?
    .
    But did he participate in anything else, besides himself? 
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #2 on: November 20, 2018, 10:18:17 PM »
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  • He was referred to as a Silent Communist.

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #3 on: November 20, 2018, 10:25:40 PM »
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  • Archbishop Sheen,an Enthusiast of Vatican II

    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f041ht_Sheen_VatII.htm


    Quote
    Not accepting the Council is demonic

     In short, Bishop Sheen always defended the reforms of Vatican II. He went as far as to qualify any reactions against it as “demonic.” Indeed, he asserted:

     “It is a historical fact that whenever there is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit as in a General Council of the Church, there is always an extra show of force by the anti-Spirit or the demonic. Even at the beginning, immediately after Pentecost and the descent of the Spirit upon the Apostles, there began a persecution and the murder of Stephen. If a General Council did not provoke the spirit of turbulence, one might almost doubt the operation of the Third Person of the Trinity over the Assembly” (Reeves, p. 335).

    Treasure in Clay: The Autobiography of Fulton J. Sheen

    page 308:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=gAzlAlPTzEcC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Treasure+in+Clay:+The+Autobiography+of+Fulton+J.+Sheen&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7397gz-TeAhULLa0KHVfTCtUQ6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=the%20tensions%20which%20developed&f=false
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #4 on: November 20, 2018, 10:27:25 PM »
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  • If anything the world's reaction to VII was exuberant.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline trad123

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #5 on: November 20, 2018, 10:33:47 PM »
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  • TIA put emphasis on the wrong words, rather:


    Quote
    If a General Council did not provoke the spirit of turbulence, one might almost doubt the operation of the Third Person of the Trinity over the Assembly”

    If Sheen were still alive I would point to that, and tell him to read! and read it again!
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #6 on: November 21, 2018, 06:20:15 AM »
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  • Archbishop Sheen,an Enthusiast of Vatican II

    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f041ht_Sheen_VatII.htm


    Yes, Archbishop Sheen was an ecuмenist through and through.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #7 on: November 21, 2018, 12:13:55 PM »
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  • If a General Council did not provoke the spirit of turbulence, one might almost doubt the operation of the Third Person of the Trinity over the Assembly”

    I thought both Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI said in effect that the Third Person of the Trinity (infallibility) was not invited to preside over the Council. Next they will say the Holy Spirit presided over the traditional teaching but left the room during the Modernist bits.

    Unfortunately that is where Catholicism is today.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 12:41:49 PM »
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  • .
    He was referred to as a Silent Communist.
    .
    Bella Dodd explained that Fulton J. Sheen is the one who convinced her of the truth of the Catholic faith, so she abandoned Communism and converted to being Catholic.
    Therefore, was it Sheen's "silent communism" that gave him the ability to convert a Communist?
    Is that what it takes to convert a Communist, "silent communism?"
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 07:00:12 PM »
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  • Yes, +Sheen was certainly a Modernist after Vatican II, but no Communist.

    When he narrated that famous Tridentine Mass video, he sounded thoroughly Traditional.  He made some comments in particular about the Traditional liturgical customs to the effect that the Church retains and cherishes, but does not discard, her valuable traditions.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #10 on: November 21, 2018, 11:11:49 PM »
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  • .
    Bella Dodd explained that Fulton J. Sheen is the one who convinced her of the truth of the Catholic faith, so she abandoned Communism and converted to being Catholic.
    Therefore, was it Sheen's "silent communism" that gave him the ability to convert a Communist?
    Is that what it takes to convert a Communist, "silent communism?"
    Now  this may sound strange, but a teaching sister from Holy Names University in Oakland, California told me that Sisters who live in community are espousing the highest communistic ideals and Roman Catholic spirituality together. She was a devotee of Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen and the Jesuit Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

    I disagreed with her and told her that St. Thomas Aquinas certainly did not espouse Communism nor Socialism. Neither did St. Paul or Christ our God. Christ told us to give all our wealth to the poor and to follow Him, not Marx.

    Did Thomas Merton ever abandon his Marxist ideals when he became a Catholic priest monk?

    Bella Dodd told us that ever since the 1920's, there have been communist agents within Catholicism, within the priesthood, and within the convents. These priests and sisters have done much damage, especially with their influence in academia. I remember Catholic Communist activists who attended college classes with me and who were very actively promoting communism. Their favorite colors were black; they promoted race riots and anti-government demonstrations; and they had the same agenda as does Antifa today. It's been a while, so I forgot the name of their campus club, but they were able to find a priest to serve as their chaplain.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline poche

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 11:19:47 PM »
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  • He participated in himself, did he ever gripe about it thereafter?
    Archbishop Lefebvre participated in the Second Vatican Council.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #12 on: November 22, 2018, 01:03:33 PM »
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  • .
    Yes, +Sheen was certainly a Modernist after Vatican II, but no Communist.

    When he narrated that famous Tridentine Mass video, he sounded thoroughly Traditional.  He made some comments in particular about the Traditional liturgical customs to the effect that the Church retains and cherishes, but does not discard, her valuable traditions.
    .
    The resident archivist in the Los Angeles diocese for many years has been Msgr. Francis J. Weber, who knows how to offer the TLM, and did so once a month (the first Sunday of each month) to placate Catholics with a certain attachment to antiquity. He didn't have any personal yearnings for it but treated the whole affair as if it were a museum exhibit. He wasn't about to "throw away" anything in the Latin Mass, but no one thought that he "cherished" it, either, except as a showpiece. His sermons were dry and uninspiring, any reference to the liturgy or rubrics he was using being matter-of-fact and perfunctory, like giving a tour through a graveyard. He was merely going through the motions with his monthly Indult Mass. 
    .
    There was never any sense of community there, no opportunity to socialize, no outreach program to the poor or needy, no phone tree to pass along urgent information, just the Mass, once each month --- oh, but not always. Every so often, Roger Cardinal Mahony would come in and start his unannounced custom liturgy an hour before the monthly Indult had been scheduled for, with Mahony's invited guests filling the pews on short notice. Then as the Indult congregation began to arrive, they were informed by the attendants in the Gift Shop where they had to pass through, that the Latin Mass had been canceled that week. Many of these faithful had come from many miles away, driving for an hour or more only to arrive and find out their trip was for nothing. And since the TLM was supposed to start at noon, arrivals at 11:30 am didn't have any other TLM within range they could go to instead, so they would end up missing Mass that week. Some of them would head off for Ventura, where Fr. Schell offered a TLM at the Ted Mayer Mortuary chapel every Sunday at 1:30 pm. That was 50 miles and one hour away, for some in the wrong direction. The unavoidable message was that neither Mahony nor Weber could have cared less about the TLM or the people who came to assist at it.
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #13 on: November 22, 2018, 01:05:42 PM »
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  • .
    Archbishop Lefebvre participated in the Second Vatican Council.
    .
    Fr. Leonard Feeney was PROHIBITED from participating, because if he had been there, Vat.II would have taken an entirely different course.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Did Fulton Sheen ever disparage Second Vatican council?
    « Reply #14 on: November 22, 2018, 01:14:37 PM »
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  • She was a devotee of Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen and the Jesuit Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.
    .
    .
    Pierre Teilhard de Chardin was denied Catholic burial. Nobody Catholic wanted the likes of him in the cemetery.
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