Quote from: aryzia

The reference in scripture (Isaias 40:12) is always translated "It is he who sitteth on the circle of the earth"  not "globe" of the earth.  There is a word for circle and a word for globe and the word for globe is not used.  In Genesis, earth is described like a tent, with a dome over it with water over the dome (for rain) and water under the earth in the great deep.  Also under the earth is a great pit, which is hell.  A pit is not a central location on a ball, but a pit under the plane of earth.  The earth is described as a footstool.  What footstool is a ball?  And what ball has four corners?

Besides scripture attesting to the flat plane with a dome over it and water above, the problem with the sphere becomes manifest when the globe's curvature cannot be demonstrated anywhere. Not today, not in history.  No curve demonstrated--EVER.  Experiments with far reaching lasers, airplanes and balloons sent into the upper layers of sky have proven logically, mathematically, and visually speaking, that earth is a plane.  

But lets look at the globe more closely.  Firstly, discussion in history about the globe remain that.  Popes fought the pythagoran doctrine with a vengeance.  Most saints and popes who discussed it at all were adamantly flat earthers because they were geocentric.  Flat and stationary belong to the same model--geocentricism.  Round and moving earth belong to the same model--heliocentrism.  Ptolemy never said earth was a globe, rather, only that the heavenly bodies circled above the stationary earth.  A stationary globe is a new invention by modern geocentrics who were globe indoctrinated from infancy.  It was never that way in history.  

No curvature commensurate with a globe of 25,000 mi in circuмference has ever been demonstrated. That's a serious statement--no curve, no ball. The surface of water on a globe is arguably unable to curve, let alone stay put on a surface where it can't possibly cling to the ball in all directions.  Direction itself is challenged to scorn on a globe.  One has to wonder: Is "up", up?  Or is "up" actually just "out", in every direction?  Is there an east or a west on a ball? Or are these just relative directions without basis?  Did Jesus Christ rise to heaven above, or go "out" sideways?  And when Jesus rose, did he technically go "down" relative to those on the opposite side of the globe?  Is the horizon a horizontal line or a circle? God is not illogical, but profoundly simple.  Earth is not a globe.  The globe is the necessary groundwork for relativism and denial of truth. Satan's ape of creation visibly subverts the Faith, logic and scripture.  

Besides the discussions in history that included saints and popes and outsiders, without exception, the only people who firmly taught a moving/globe earth were atheistic, demonic pagans, no matter what Wikipedia says.  Those who taught geocentricism were Christian.  Always, without exception.


Since Satan has recreated the world in his own image, replaced the truth for a lie, making a physical science to prove relativity and nonsense, rather than doctrine and truth, he gains a tangible platform for chaos and contradiction because the people interact with ridiculous contrary notions of God in the world in which they live. Heliocentrism/globe moving earth, is the PHYSICAL BULWARK for the SPIRITUAL ANARCHY we endure today.

It is without question that the sun danced in the sky not only to affirm the truth of the prophecies of Fatima but also to prove that it is the sun that moves, not the earth.  With the reality of creation affirmed, Sister Lucy's words about diabolical disorientation take on a whole new dimension.          

First let me apologise for quoting the wrong verse of Isaias, it should be 40:22, not 40:12. You say 'is always translated "It is he who sitteth on the circle of the earth"  not "globe" of the earth.' Well in my 1956 Catholic Family Bible, Douay-Challoner Text, imprimatur by Cardinal Stritch, checked by a list of 50 scholars, all priests, you find ‘It is he who sitteth upon the globe of the earth…' Besides, it is very reasonable to assume the circle of the earth describes a global earth. Again, for me, the Child of Prague confirms the earth is a globe. so too when I see ships disappear from sight, and when I see the vapours of jets appearing in the sky.

I see you are getting a knocking on another thread aryzia. There is no need for that. This matter was never dogmatised like the moving sun was, so one is allowed to make comments as you do. And yes, there was a time when Genesis was interpreted as portraying a flat-earth as we have all seen in various ways.  

Your flat-earthism is now getting more popular as I have witnessed. I was given a disc with the arguments and they are quite good.
However, for me a global earth is in keeping with my reasoning and I am a biblical geocentrist. And yes, here lies a mystery, described as follows:

Understanding Gravity:

To say Newton solved the mystery of ‘gravity’ is ignorant or a lie for no one other than God ‘understands’ what we call ‘gravity.’ We know the need for and effects of ‘gravity’ on earth, and indeed probably on the surface of every other cosmic body, but can mere human reason really comprehend the mystery of gravity? Given, for example, that if we view the earth from space, as man can do now, we find it surrounded by nothing; its surface covered with ‘unattached’ things, half ‘upside-down’ relative to the other half. This being so, we can ask, how is it that on this same globe everybody on its surface has the sky above and the earth below.

Thus Jesus goes 'up to heaven, for heaven is up to everyone on earth.

Is such a phenomenon not beyond human understanding? Let us put it this way. Here we are in the space shuttle, heading for global earth. Now, no matter where we head for, even if it is a place right on the bottom of the globe as we head towards it, somehow, by the time we land, we end up the same way, the sky is always overhead, and the earth is always below. When does the ‘head-under-heels twist’ happen, we ask? If a fly landed on the same place on a light bulb, it would find itself ‘upside down,’ yet the same does not occur when the bulbs are cosmic bodies. How does this happen? ‘It is all because of gravity’ we are told, and thank God for it we say, because without it we would all be in one terrible incoherent state of chaos.
     
Finally, in that infamous Galileo case where faith and reason was fought for on earth, not once was the shape of the earth mentioned, not by either side, and that is all for now.

Your phenomenon is not beyond human understanding these days.  Words can mean lots of things, pictures are often distorted.  But when scripture uses terminology, it isn't flexible in the same way as today.  So I would disagree on the premise that God doesn't paint false pictures or give anyone reason to believe Christ did not ascend into heaven.  In a way, it appears to be a denial on the round earth.  No, that's not a proof.  Still, if the flat earth model is inserted (against your sensibilities as you've been taught) everything fits.  But it wouldn't be fair to use just one or two proofs to say that earth is flat.  I agree with that and can't blame you for holding what you've been told.  But when the discussion is settled, I personally have found that there are zero serious proofs for earth being a ball and hundreds for it being flat, including the fact that flat better jives with scripture.  Keep studying because there's a lot in this model that makes sense.  
Now its true that Galileo case did not discuss flat earth, but I have to say that geocentricism has always included flat earth in the model up until the 20th century.  You see it in ancient maps and old cartographers, you see reference to it in the mobile represented as a toy hanging above the bed of children, you hear from the Catholic monk in Christian Topography in the year 550 etc. explaining how earth is flat and that they've been to the edges where it joins  the sky.  
Its true, during Galileo they don't mention the flat earth when discussing geocentricism, they more talk about the heavens.  So, rather than depending on the Church Fathers for certain proof, I've turned to modern science, legitimate modern science, for answers.  I have to ask myself, is it logical that water sticks to the outside of a ball?  I know what modern science says about it, I went to school, too...but is that logical?  Especially knowing the law of gravity is not well received in much of the scientific community.  Also, the stars.  How is it that the pole star remains absolutely stationary year after year after year.  Use a telescope made of PVC pipe and point it to the North Star.  The star will NEVER move.  Aim that telescope at the sun and the sun will leave the view in 1 1/2 minutes.  This is contrary to what NASA says, so why believe them about anything?  So, we probably already agree earth is stationary, but what is the explanation for water staying put?  Science used to say that the spinning action in combination with the molten iron magnet in the center of the earth created a "gravity" that kept the water on.  But if the earth isn't spinning, how does that theory hold? It also doesn't make sense that water curves.  Water in my glass is level. Water in my pool is level. Water in the lake behind my house is level.  Yet the ocean curves? Really? Also, why did the head engineer laying railroad track in England take his team to the authorities and asked if they should include the curvature in their calculations to make up for the curve of the earth over long distances.  They told them no and there was a huge disagreement.  The authorities won, and the engineers laid hundreds of miles of track completely on the level.  How can that be?  The track would need to curve at a rate to include 6500 feet of curvature over a span of just a 100 hundred miles.  There's more, but I'll leave that to you.  I find this fascinating and wanted to share.  Good luck!  

I'm not ignoring anything you've said, but this is a lot.  Can we start with just one or two things and go from there.  Its great seeing all this information and I'm happy to imbibe all you write, but we're going to overshoot each other with this much going on.  

Let me posit an answer for one thing: As for the globe in Baby Jesus' hand, I must consider two things in light of the fact  that I'm convinced that earth is flat.  Either 1. The person making the image was of the school that earth was round and reproduced what he knew.  Or, the one I favor, 2. That the globe does not represent earth only, but since Jesus is the King of all of creation, that globe in his hand represents all of creation...for this reason: dome of heaven, flat earth inside, and the great deep with hell making up the bottom of the globe.  Seems more accurate to me that God is the Creator of all things, so all of creation is included in his hand.    

You that is an elaborate hypothesis maybe I should look into that.  

Who would've thought that I'd be considering Earth is flat?  

I may get back to you later Aryzia!

I've provided the most concise video on the subject of flat earth for those who want to know the science.  But there is also biblical proof as seen here:



Please refrain from rude comments before you've investigated this for yourself.

Wow Aryzia, you've got me bought and sold!  Never seen such convincing proof that Earth is flat.  Who would've thought it!?  

Thanks for opening our eyes, Aryzia.  

Cool.  Thanks for posting! Have a holy Good Friday!