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Offline Jaynek

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Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2019, 12:30:40 PM »
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  • It is interesting that you are 100% certain he is innocent even though you don't have all of the information provided to the jury nor do you know what took place in the jury room for the many days of jury deliberation.  

    Regardless of what you think of the reporter I provided, so far most of the other reports I have seen posted on these kinds of forums calling for his innocence/offering the "facts" are from Novus Ordo organizations or personal friends.  Let's be honest here: they aren't exactly impartial.  

    People are sure that he is not guilty because the allegations against him are so wildly implausible that there just isn't any additional information that could even make them possible, let alone "beyond reasonable doubt". Unless we wish to consider things like time machines and cloaks of invisibility. 

    And it is not just Novus Ordo organizations and personal friends saying that.  Ann Barnhardt (who refers to " anti-pope Bergoglio) says "The charges that ++Pell was convicted of simply don’t hold water.  The notion that he or anyone could orally rape two lads in a busy sacristy while fully vested immediately after a huge pontifical Mass is defies all logic, reason and common sense.   " She says this as one who thinks he is both a horrible human being and a sickening bishop, not as a supporter.   https://www.barnhardt.biz/2019/03/01/my-take-on-pells-conviction-fwiw/

    And Milo Yiannopoulos, who does not fit either category you stipulate, also concludes that it is too implausible to accept.
    https://www.spectator.com.au/2019/03/for-whom-the-pell-tolls/

    There is only one logical conclusion in this case and there is no reason to question the motives of the people who reach it.  We are, however, forced to wonder how anyone could claim that the allegations against Cardinal Pell suggest that he is guilty. These are the people we would suspect of hidden agendas and dubious motives.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #46 on: March 05, 2019, 01:52:07 PM »
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  • People are sure that he is not guilty because the allegations against him are so wildly implausible that there just isn't any additional information that could even make them possible, let alone "beyond reasonable doubt". Unless we wish to consider things like time machines and cloaks of invisibility.

    And it is not just Novus Ordo organizations and personal friends saying that.  Ann Barnhardt (who refers to " anti-pope Bergoglio) says "The charges that ++Pell was convicted of simply don’t hold water.  The notion that he or anyone could orally rape two lads in a busy sacristy while fully vested immediately after a huge pontifical Mass is defies all logic, reason and common sense.   " She says this as one who thinks he is both a horrible human being and a sickening bishop, not as a supporter.   https://www.barnhardt.biz/2019/03/01/my-take-on-pells-conviction-fwiw/

    And Milo Yiannopoulos, who does not fit either category you stipulate, also concludes that it is too implausible to accept.
    https://www.spectator.com.au/2019/03/for-whom-the-pell-tolls/

    There is only one logical conclusion in this case and there is no reason to question the motives of the people who reach it.  We are, however, forced to wonder how anyone could claim that the allegations against Cardinal Pell suggest that he is guilty. These are the people we would suspect of hidden agendas and dubious motives.
    LOL that Ann Barnhardt isn't Novus Ordo.  Apparently in your world, if someone thinks Francis is an anti-pope because they think another Modernist is still pope that somehow makes them non-Novus Ordo. 

    Regardless, still none of these folks know the whole story.  Neither do you.  Neither do I.  I can at least admit that it is "possible" that he is innocent.  I doubt it, but it is "possible". Unlike you all who have no doubts that he is innocent and all those mean anti-Catholic Australians were out to get him.  

    I know what it is like to be on a criminal case.  I know what it is like to take part in criminal deliberations with 11 other people with different backgrounds, points of view, and takes on the case at hand. I know how hard it is to come to an unanimous decision.  It involves careful consideration of the testimony and evidence. 

    I get that my position isn't going to win me popularity votes with someone like yourself..I just don't care.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17


    Offline poche

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #47 on: March 05, 2019, 10:58:08 PM »
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  • It is interesting that you are 100% certain he is innocent even though you don't have all of the information provided to the jury nor do you know what took place in the jury room for the many days of jury deliberation.  

    Regardless of what you think of the reporter I provided, so far most of the other reports I have seen posted on these kinds of forums calling for his innocence/offering the "facts" are from Novus Ordo organizations or personal friends.  Let's be honest here: they aren't exactly impartial.  
    In this case the 'victim' provided a scenario that defies credibility. What he would have you believe is that he and his friend, who were singing in the choir at the cathedral were violated in the sacristy of the cathedral immediately after mass. They were accosted while the cardinal, who must have had some kind of unholy bilocation ability, because he (the cardinal) was also at the entrance greeting the people coming out of mass. All this happened without anybody noticing anything wrong. Nobody in the choir noticed that these two choirboys were missing. The master of ceremonies and the other members of the cardinal's entourage didn't see anything. All this happened in a semi-public location without anybody seeing anything. How can that be unless there is an incredible bias against the cardinal? I suspect that the fix was in from the beginning.     

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #48 on: March 06, 2019, 02:43:49 PM »
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  • What is the Vatican's "contribution" behind the scene to Cdl Pell's conviction?

    Has anyone here read Henry Sire, 'The Dictator Pope'? I have not read it but a trusted friend, referring to this book, wrote:

    "Cardinal Pell was first appointed to the new financial czar role in the Vatican, I think in 2015, his authority was second only to the Pope, he even had authority over the finances of the Secretariat of State, run by Cardinal Parolin. Parolin complained about this and got his own way, Pell's wings were clipped very soon after, and gradually the Pope removed more and more authority from Pell to the extent that it was becoming very difficult for him to do his job. He had uncovered at least a billion Euros that was unaccounted for, as well as informing Pope Bergoglio who among the curia were responsible for the financial scandals. The pope did nothing to address the situation, and the archbishops and cardinals retained their positions, in fact it seems the pope uses their moral corruption and weakness to further his own agenda. Many of these cardinals are part of the lavender mafia, i.e., homos. Pell was seen as a threat. The timing of charges laid on Pell coincides with all these shenanigans in Rome. Apparently there is much relief in Rome now that he is out of the way, especially from a Cardinal B....., and a Cardinal B......... They wanted him gone."

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #49 on: March 06, 2019, 03:34:58 PM »
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  • Part of an interview with Robert Matthei
    https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2019/03/de-mattei-interview-in-la-verita-dear.html

    Let’s go back to Pell for a second. Somebody observed that the accusations of sexual abuses came after the Prefect of the Secretariat for the Economy had discovered a million Euros deposited in secret accounts…

    It’s possible that the two things are connected.  Furthermore, it is rumored that the source of the accusations that put him in the dock was not in Australia, but in the Vatican…


    Offline poche

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #50 on: March 06, 2019, 11:32:56 PM »
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  • What is the Vatican's "contribution" behind the scene to Cdl Pell's conviction?

    Has anyone here read Henry Sire, 'The Dictator Pope'? I have not read it but a trusted friend, referring to this book, wrote:

    "Cardinal Pell was first appointed to the new financial czar role in the Vatican, I think in 2015, his authority was second only to the Pope, he even had authority over the finances of the Secretariat of State, run by Cardinal Parolin. Parolin complained about this and got his own way, Pell's wings were clipped very soon after, and gradually the Pope removed more and more authority from Pell to the extent that it was becoming very difficult for him to do his job. He had uncovered at least a billion Euros that was unaccounted for, as well as informing Pope Bergoglio who among the curia were responsible for the financial scandals. The pope did nothing to address the situation, and the archbishops and cardinals retained their positions, in fact it seems the pope uses their moral corruption and weakness to further his own agenda. Many of these cardinals are part of the lavender mafia, i.e., homos. Pell was seen as a threat. The timing of charges laid on Pell coincides with all these shenanigans in Rome. Apparently there is much relief in Rome now that he is out of the way, especially from a Cardinal B....., and a Cardinal B......... They wanted him gone."
    I read that both Cardinal Pell's ideological allies and his ideological opponents were surprised at the conviction and don't believe that Cardinal Pell is guilty. the only ones who were pleased were those who were chafing under his demand for financial transparency.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #51 on: March 06, 2019, 11:56:41 PM »
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  • I read that both Cardinal Pell's ideological allies and his ideological opponents were surprised at the conviction and don't believe that Cardinal Pell is guilty. the only ones who were pleased were those who were chafing under his demand for financial transparency.
    And I heard that liberal clergy in Victoria are celebrating!

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #52 on: March 07, 2019, 05:07:44 PM »
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  • Just in by email:

    Quote

    THE CARDINAL PELL FILE 
    Updated March 7, 2019
     
    This resources web page presents many commentators who have questioned the conviction of Cardinal Pell on child sex abuse charges. Some commentators are Catholic. A few are Catholic but not friends of Cardinal Pell. Many are non-Catholic or not religious.
    Variously they point to the lack of evidence for a conviction, contrary evidence from the witnesses brought by the prosecution, and the public trial by media before charges were laid that made the process a persecution not a prosecution. Consequently, as some point out, Victoria’s legal system is as much on trial as Cardinal Pell. The glaring problems with the trial and frenzied media attacks on the Cardinal brings into question the possibility of a fair trial or appeal.
    To balance public debate on the case, we invite people to email and share on social media, download and print articles you consider most relevant, and distribute widely. Give to relatives and friends. Leave in public places.
    To see the latest on The Cardinal Pell File click here.
     
     



                               


    Copyright © 2018 News Weekly, All rights reserved.
    Our mailing address is:
    News Weekly
    PO Box 251
    Balwyn Vic 3103



    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #53 on: March 07, 2019, 05:10:40 PM »
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  • Didn't realise it would be boxed and difficult to read Here is the body of the request:


    THE CARDINAL PELL FILE 
    Updated March 7, 2019
     
    This resources web page presents many commentators who have questioned the conviction of Cardinal Pell on child sex abuse charges. Some commentators are Catholic. A few are Catholic but not friends of Cardinal Pell. Many are non-Catholic or not religious.

    Variously they point to the lack of evidence for a conviction, contrary evidence from the witnesses brought by the prosecution, and the public trial by media before charges were laid that made the process a persecution not a prosecution. Consequently, as some point out, Victoria’s legal system is as much on trial as Cardinal Pell. The glaring problems with the trial and frenzied media attacks on the Cardinal brings into question the possibility of a fair trial or appeal.

    To balance public debate on the case, we invite people to email and share on social media, download and print articles you consider most relevant, and distribute widely. Give to relatives and friends. Leave in public places.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #54 on: March 10, 2019, 12:33:00 AM »
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  • Didn't realise it would be boxed and difficult to read Here is the body of the request:


    THE CARDINAL PELL FILE
    Updated March 7, 2019
     
    This resources web page presents many commentators who have questioned the conviction of Cardinal Pell on child sex abuse charges. Some commentators are Catholic. A few are Catholic but not friends of Cardinal Pell. Many are non-Catholic or not religious.

    Variously they point to the lack of evidence for a conviction, contrary evidence from the witnesses brought by the prosecution, and the public trial by media before charges were laid that made the process a persecution not a prosecution. Consequently, as some point out, Victoria’s legal system is as much on trial as Cardinal Pell. The glaring problems with the trial and frenzied media attacks on the Cardinal brings into question the possibility of a fair trial or appeal.

    To balance public debate on the case, we invite people to email and share on social media, download and print articles you consider most relevant, and distribute widely. Give to relatives and friends. Leave in public places.
    At Jesus' trial the situation was similar, lack of witnesses who were consistent, lack of evidence. The Sanhedrin convicted him anyway. 

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #55 on: March 10, 2019, 01:00:51 AM »
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  • At Jesus' trial the situation was similar, lack of witnesses who were consistent, lack of evidence. The Sanhedrin convicted him anyway.
    I have been thinking the same thing myself, along with St Paul who was held in prison for over two years until he was sent up to Rome where he remained under house arrest under guard.


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #56 on: March 13, 2019, 04:23:45 PM »
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  • Cardinal George Pell has received a sentence of 6 years, with a non-parole period of 3 years and eight months. A proof of full-on persecution. I am greatly distressed and beg prayers for him. May he keep his good spirit and avoid falling into despair.

    There is and excellent article on onepeterfive which spells out perfectly the outlook for the Church as a whole. (written prior to the sentencing).

    The Pell Fallout Continues, And it has Implications for the Whole Church

    https://onepeterfive.com/the-pell-fallout-continues-and-it-has-implications-for-the-whole-church/


    Offline Markus

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #57 on: March 13, 2019, 05:27:17 PM »
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  • We see that "Q" is backing this condemnation of Pell.  What is to be made of this?


    Pell Found Guilty of Child Sex Charges 2894
    Q!!mG7VJxZNCI 25 Feb 2019 - 8:08:29 PM

    Screenshot_1-32.png
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/25/australia/cardinal-george-pell-vatican-conviction-intl/index.html📁
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-47366113📁
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-abuse-pell/vatican-treasurer-pell-found-guilty-of-abusing-two-choir-boys-22-years-ago-idUSKCN1QF009📁
    Many more to come?
    Dark to LIGHT.
    Q
    Taking Q seriously in 2019?
    :laugh1:

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #58 on: March 17, 2019, 07:58:23 PM »
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  • http://video.ewtn.com/world-over/
    18 mins 40 secs.

    Interview with James Macauley, long time observer of Cdl Pell in particular the trial. Very frightening to think that he is kept in solitary confinement for 23 hrs a day, he is allowed one visit (or is it one visitor) per week, he is not allowed to celebrate Mass (of course NO, but no doubt a comfort to him) or even to have his breviary. Please pray for him. 

    Offline poche

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #59 on: March 18, 2019, 03:47:21 AM »
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  • http://video.ewtn.com/world-over/
    18 mins 40 secs.

    Interview with James Macauley, long time observer of Cdl Pell in particular the trial. Very frightening to think that he is kept in solitary confinement for 23 hrs a day, he is allowed one visit (or is it one visitor) per week, he is not allowed to celebrate Mass (of course NO, but no doubt a comfort to him) or even to have his breviary. Please pray for him.
    If he dies in prison he might be in a better position to pray for us.

     

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