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Offline Nadir

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Conviction of Cdl George Pell
« on: February 27, 2019, 07:14:29 PM »
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  • By email:
    Subject: Peter Wales, on Pell' conviction
    To: 



    Dear Friend,
    Please find attached a Quadrant article on the recent conviction Of Cardinal Pell.  

    We read that Cardinal Pell was convicted of sexual abuse based on evidence of [size=+1]one[/size]
     complainant (and that is the only 'evidence') that allegedly happened about 20 years ago in circumstances (in a priests sacristy) which make the alleged abuse almost impossible without it being witnessed by numerous other people at a busy time after mass.
     
    The conviction of Cardinal Pell strongly suggests a [size=+1]witch-hunt[/size] of a man because of his social conservative principles  (exposing the global warming scam, against homosexual practices and propaganda, support of traditional marriage, immigration based on merit and ability to contribute to our society, preponderance of homosexual abuse in churches [not heterosexual], defense of our Western culture, etc.)

    (My comment - not to mention he was engaged in cleaning up the finances)

    As Peter Wales puts it, the conviction of Cardinal Pell exposes the ugly witch-hunt of our left-wing media (especially the ABC) and the corruption of our justice system determined to discredit the Catholic Church by ensnaring her most senior churchman.
    Please pass on the article.[/font][/color]

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2019/02/catholics-sex-and-cardinal-pell/

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #1 on: March 01, 2019, 10:49:54 PM »
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  • I just couldn't resist this. Pardon the irreverence. But that's OK as long as you appreciate 'strine humour just a little:

    http://ecclesandbosco.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-case-against-cardinal-pell.html



    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #2 on: March 02, 2019, 08:26:23 AM »
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  • Because Cardinal Pell knew the evils of the Vatican Bank(ing) , I feel he was targeted by Bergoglio who didn't mind Pell getting flushed (and probably promoted it). Notice McCarrick being handled with kid gloves -a man who has real and recent accusations which all were aware of, and pretty much ran the lavander mafia in the USA. For some reason, I don't believe Pell is guilty.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/analysis-the-non-trial-of-theodore-mccarrick-25046

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #3 on: March 02, 2019, 01:05:27 PM »
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  • This article makes a pretty compelling case that Cardinal Pell is innocent: https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/02/why-the-case-against-cardinal-george-pell-doesnt-stand-up/

    And we don't have to look far for plausible explanations for making a false accusation against a defender of Catholic teaching on sexual morality.

    Offline Merry

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #4 on: March 02, 2019, 01:46:33 PM »
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  • We see that "Q" is backing this condemnation of Pell.  What is to be made of this?


    Pell Found Guilty of Child Sex Charges 2894
    Q!!mG7VJxZNCI 25 Feb 2019 - 8:08:29 PM

    Screenshot_1-32.png
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/25/australia/cardinal-george-pell-vatican-conviction-intl/index.html📁
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-47366113📁
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-abuse-pell/vatican-treasurer-pell-found-guilty-of-abusing-two-choir-boys-22-years-ago-idUSKCN1QF009📁
    Many more to come?
    Dark to LIGHT.
    Q
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #5 on: March 02, 2019, 03:20:31 PM »
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  • This article makes a pretty compelling case that Cardinal Pell is innocent: https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/02/why-the-case-against-cardinal-george-pell-doesnt-stand-up/

    And we don't have to look far for plausible explanations for making a false accusation against a defender of Catholic teaching on sexual morality.
    Good find, Jayne! The article reads (in part)

    The George Pell Case and Standards of Evidence
    Cardinal George Pell attends a news conference at the Vatican, June 29, 2017. (Remo Casilli/REUTERS)On appeal, a panel of judges can decide that the verdict could not rationally have been reached on the basis of the evidence.

    ......
    With the lifting of the trial judge’s order banning coverage of the conviction of Cardinal George Pell this past December on charges of “historical sexual abuse,” the facts can finally be laid out for those willing to consider them. (Disclosure: Cardinal Pell and I are longtime friends.)

    Victoria police commenced an investigation one year before any complaints had been filed. During that investigation, the police took out newspaper ads seeking information about any untoward behavior with minors at the St. Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne —without any hint of such misbehavior having been received by the authorities.

    Once charges had been laid and Cardinal Pell had returned to Australia from his post at the Vatican, a committal hearing (to determine whether the charges were capable of being tried) was held. The committal-hearing judge threw out several charges but allowed others to go forward — even though she observed that she would not vote to convict on several charges, she thought they should be tried anyway.

    In Cardinal Pell’s first trial, held under the media-suppression order, the defense dismantled the prosecution’s case while shedding light on the inadequacy of the police investigative process; that trial resulted in a hung jury, which voted 10–2 for acquittal. The foreman and several other members of the jury were in tears when the verdict was read.

    During the retrial, the defense demonstrated that, in order to sustain the charge that Pell had accosted and sexually abused two choirboys after Mass one Sunday, ten improbable things would have had to have happened and all within ten minutes:

    • Archbishop Pell abandoned his decades-long practice of greeting congregants outside the cathedral after Mass.

    • Pell, who was typically accompanied by a master of ceremonies or sacristan when he was vested for Mass, entered the carefully controlled space of the vesting sacristy alone.

    • The master of ceremonies, charged with helping the archbishop disrobe while removing his own liturgical vestments, had disappeared.

    • The sacristan, charged with the care of the locked sacristy, had also disappeared.

    • The sacristan did not go back and forth between the sacristy and the cathedral sanctuary, removing missals and Mass vessels, as was his responsibility and consistent practice.

    • The altar servers, like the sacristan, simply disappeared, rather than helping the sacristan clear the sanctuary by bringing liturgical vessels and books back to the sacristy.

    • The priests who concelebrated the Mass with Pell were not in the sacristy disrobing after the ceremony.

    • At least 40 people did not notice that two choirboys left the post-Mass procession.

    • Two choirboys entered the sacristy, started gulping altar wine, and were accosted and abused by Archbishop Pell — while the sacristy door was open and the archbishop was in full liturgical vestments.

    • The abused choirboys then entered the choir room, through two locked doors, without anyone noticing, and participated in a post-Mass rehearsal; no one asked why they had been missing for ten minutes.

    Before the trial, one of the complainants died, having told his mother that he had never been assaulted. During the trial, there was no corroboration of the surviving complainant’s charges. Other choirboys (now, of course, grown), as well as the choir director and his assistant, the adult members of the choir, the master of ceremonies, and the sacristan all testified, and from their testimony we learn the following: that no one recalled any choirboys bolting from the procession after Mass; that none of those in the immediate vicinity of the alleged abuse noticed anything; that indeed nothing could have happened in a secured space without someone noticing; and that there was neither gossip nor rumor about any such dramatic and vile incident afterward.
    Notwithstanding this evidence of Cardinal Pell’s innocence (an innocence affirmed by ten of the twelve members of the first trial jury), the second trial jury returned a verdict of 12–0 for conviction. Observers at the trial told me that the trial judge seemed surprised on hearing the verdict.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #6 on: March 02, 2019, 03:26:46 PM »
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  • Interestingly Cdl Pell did not speak in his own defense. In fact he had diplomatic immunity and did not need to stand trial. Nevertheless he did return to Australia for a trial, and was, I believe, fairly confident of a fair trial, for something of which he is innocent. 

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #7 on: March 02, 2019, 07:42:36 PM »
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  • We see that "Q" is backing this condemnation of Pell.  What is to be made of this?
    Who is Q? Don't give it too much weight. Nothing to be seen here.


    Offline claudel

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #8 on: March 02, 2019, 08:39:01 PM »
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  • Dear Nadir,

    May I say, with no trace whatsoever of facetiousness or sarcasm, that I am struck by the fact that you consider Cardinal Pell a credibly innocent man (I stress credibly to rule out mere juridical innocence founded on legal technicalities). The truth is that I have paid very little attention to him and his various troubles—including both the Australian criminal charges and his attempt to clean out the cesspit of Vatican finances (assuming that such it was)—in the past five years or so. The only commentaries I have read have stemmed either from Rorate Caeli (the usual abject sycophancy) or Traditio (unhinged abuse), and I must admit that, other things being equal, if forced at proverbial gunpoint to give the nod to one of those two tainted sources, I'd hold my nose and go with Father Morrison at Traditio.

    So simply for spurring me to give the cardinal's situation a closer appraisal than I thus far have, I thank you for your advocacy.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #9 on: March 02, 2019, 10:36:42 PM »
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  • Thank you for your comment, Claudel. 

    I do not go to either Traditio or Rorate, but because of your comment I have just done so. Both websites, I could find little or nothing on the trial, except the falsehood on the part of Traditio. 

    I haven't followed the story all that closely, until my son awakened my interest when he had Cdl Pell to dinner late last year between the trials. I know nobody who considers that Cdl Pell is guilty. 

    Most my information comes from an email friend who sent me the op article plus the following articles:

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/george-pell-a-case-in-which-justice-never-had-a-fair-chance/news-story/7511475687c011524b623c61e65a6f50

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/27/news-corp-columnists-declare-cardinal-pell-innocent-and-a-scapegoat

    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2019/02/the-pell-affair-australia-is-now-on-trial

    Even the ultra-radical liberal Fr Frank Brennan S.J. has a good word for Cdl Pell.
    https://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article/truth-and-justice-after-the-pell-verdict

    I am pleased that I have stirred some interest. Let us pray for Cardinal Pell and that some good will come out of this. As they led him off to prison he said that he was going on retreat.




    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #10 on: March 03, 2019, 07:44:35 AM »
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  • This was an unanimous verdict.  All of the members of the jury were in on this so-called miscarriage of justice?  That gives me pause.
    **Gave up posting for Lent** If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #11 on: March 03, 2019, 10:17:23 AM »
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  • Thank you for your comment, Claudel.

    I do not go to either Traditio or Rorate, but because of your comment I have just done so. Both websites, I could find little or nothing on the trial, except the falsehood on the part of Traditio.

    I haven't followed the story all that closely, until my son awakened my interest when he had Cdl Pell to dinner late last year between the trials. I know nobody who considers that Cdl Pell is guilty.

    Most my information comes from an email friend who sent me the op article plus the following articles:

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/george-pell-a-case-in-which-justice-never-had-a-fair-chance/news-story/7511475687c011524b623c61e65a6f50

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/27/news-corp-columnists-declare-cardinal-pell-innocent-and-a-scapegoat

    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2019/02/the-pell-affair-australia-is-now-on-trial

    Even the ultra-radical liberal Fr Frank Brennan S.J. has a good word for Cdl Pell.
    https://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article/truth-and-justice-after-the-pell-verdict

    I am pleased that I have stirred some interest. Let us pray for Cardinal Pell and that some good will come out of this. As they led him off to prison he said that he was going on retreat.
    My prayers do not change as a result of this...i pray this man actually converts to the Catholic Faith.  Maybe his imprisonment will help him do that. 
    **Gave up posting for Lent** If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #12 on: March 03, 2019, 03:15:08 PM »
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  • This was an unanimous verdict.  All of the members of the jury were in on this so-called miscarriage of justice?  That gives me pause.
    2Vermont, I am not sure what  the underlined means and in the case of Cdl Pell what you mean by it. Are you able to spell it out?

    Quote
    My prayers do not change as a result of this...i pray this man actually converts to the Catholic Faith.  Maybe his imprisonment will help him do that.
     At present he is being held on bail and sentencing is on Wednesday, though I believe he plans to appeal. May Justice be done. Evil is evil, whoever it is done to. 

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #13 on: March 03, 2019, 03:43:02 PM »
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  • 2Vermont, I am not sure what  the underlined means and in the case of Cdl Pell what you mean by it. Are you able to spell it out?
     At present he is being held on bail and sentencing is on Wednesday, though I believe he plans to appeal. May Justice be done. Evil is evil, whoever it is done to.
    Bottom line: I'm not convinced he's innocent especially with an unanimous verdict to the contrary.  I think too many Traditional Catholics worry too much about these Conciliar "authorities".  Like I said above, perhaps time in jail will help bring about a conversion for him.    
    **Gave up posting for Lent** If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Conviction of Cdl George Pell
    « Reply #14 on: March 03, 2019, 05:21:57 PM »
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