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Author Topic: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny  (Read 1079 times)

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Offline Freind

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Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
« on: Yesterday at 05:05:11 PM »
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  • I heard they want to phase out the U.S. penny because it costs too much to make?

    The money system is based on 10.

    The 1 (cent) and the 100 (dollar) are the two most important values, with intermediate coinage being convenience.


    I am concerned this is a move to move the country into a cashless system because of all the turmoil it will cause.

    I looked into it and pennies don't even have to be made out of metal.

    But even when made out of metal, the winner (according to AI) would be:

    Low-Carbon Steel (Unplated)
    Total cost per penny: ~0.75¢
    Cheapest option by a significant margin
    Practical: The U.S. already used steel pennies in 1943
    Simple production: No plating process needed
    Annual savings vs. current penny: ~$85-90 million

    Am I missing something? Do we need to get this info to some department under Trump?

    Offline Freind

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 05:16:35 PM »
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  • I understand this cannot be done without the approval of Congress.

    The Democrats there pretty much nix EVERYTHING that Trump wants.

    So, a good litmus test is seeing what kind of democrat support in Congress supports this move.

    If the democrats support it, the Marxists do too, then it is bad for our country.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 05:18:26 PM »
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  • Do we need to get this info to some department under Trump?
    Worth a try, though with the common use of magnets today, using steel may not be a good idea. If a penny became magnetized it could stick inside a coin machine.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Freind

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 05:21:47 PM »
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  • Worth a try, though with the common use of magnets today, using steel may not be a good idea. If a penny became magnetized it could stick inside a coin machine.

    I know of no machines using pennies, do you?

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 06:34:40 PM »
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  • Self checkout machines. Coin sorters at banks.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"


    Offline Freind

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 06:49:38 PM »
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  • Self checkout machines. Coin sorters at banks.

    If so, the chances of counterfeiting 1 cent is almost nothing.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 07:05:51 PM »
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  • I don't see it as anything sinister, or a plot to do away with cash.  With the value of the dollar having been so eroded, and with inflation over time, the penny has become more a bookkeeping item than anything else, similar to the mill (one-tenth of a cent).  Prime example, gasoline is usually priced in dollars, cents, and mills, hence the nine-tenths at the end of the price.  Yet as a practical matter, gasoline prices are rounded up (not down) to the next full cent.

    The lowest practical coin is the five-cent piece (nickel), and arguably it, too, is largely valueless.  In all honesty, the only coins we really need are the dime and the quarter, and a case could be made for supplementing these with one- and two-dollar pieces, similar to Canada, with the five-dollar bill being the lowest paper denomination.  Again, inflation is the culprit here.  

    My opinion only, and I really don't think the issue,all by itself, has a moral or religious coloration.  

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 08:06:42 PM »
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  • I likewise don't see anything sinister about eliminating the penny.  It likely affects us in sales tax states like Washington more.  Stores are already putting up signs for cash customers who don't have exact change (i.e. pennies) saying at the amount due will be rounded up to the nearest nickel.  I remember the $2.00 Jefferson bill and the $1.00 Susan B. Anthony coin, these are sill in circulation, just not very common.  Shops complained that their cash registers didn't have a slot for the $2.00 bill nor a compartment for the $1.00 coin.  The latter was nearly the size of a quarter, which caused confusion.
      
    I wonder why they don't replace the Kennedy 50 cent piece (still in circulation, just not commonly encountered) with a dollar coin that size, and the $1.00 Washington bill with the $2.00 Jefferson bill.  Current cash registers would have compartments for those.  Churches and other charity collections where people put in a dollar bill may see their collections nearly double.


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 08:40:37 PM »
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  • I likewise don't see anything sinister about eliminating the penny.  It likely affects us in sales tax states like Washington more.  Stores are already putting up signs for cash customers who don't have exact change (i.e. pennies) saying at the amount due will be rounded up to the nearest nickel.  I remember the $2.00 Jefferson bill and the $1.00 Susan B. Anthony coin, these are sill in circulation, just not very common.  Shops complained that their cash registers didn't have a slot for the $2.00 bill nor a compartment for the $1.00 coin.  The latter was nearly the size of a quarter, which caused confusion.
     
    I wonder why they don't replace the Kennedy 50 cent piece (still in circulation, just not commonly encountered) with a dollar coin that size, and the $1.00 Washington bill with the $2.00 Jefferson bill.  Current cash registers would have compartments for those.  Churches and other charity collections where people put in a dollar bill may see their collections nearly double.

    In time to come, I'd say that as a practical matter, all prices will be rounded up to the nearest five cents, as trying to figure up whether to round up or down, time and time again, is probably asking a bit much of cashiers.  Probably in actual practice, all prices would end in either .05 or .00 (but what, then, of the .99 and similar prices so beloved by retailers?), and the only rounding that would take place, would be on the total line of a receipt (and even that would be the result of sales taxes that presumably wouldn't be rounded, e.g., tax on a 50-cent item at 8% would be four cents).

    The Washington one-dollar bill is so iconic that Americans would probably have a very, very difficult time turning loose of it, in favor of a coin.  Even when silver dollars existed, they were not common, probably about like 50-cent pieces today, they existed, but weren't used all that much.  (Ditto two-dollar bills.  Once I had a two-dollar bill and tried to spend it at a store, and the cashier wouldn't take it.  She didn't know such a thing existed and thought it was fake.)

    They make the two-dollar coin (the "toonie") work in Canada, but that said, I have to wonder if a populace, already weighted down with dollar coins, would appreciate being saddled with another fairly heavy coin on top of that.  So a two-dollar bill might be the way to go.

    Offline Freind

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #9 on: Today at 08:41:47 AM »
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  • I asked AI about removal of the penny and how it would work with sales tax. (It also said 45 states have sales tax).

    Then I asked this:


    Does the inconvenience when using cash, drive people towards using credit cards?


    Quote
    "Yes, absolutely. The inconvenience of cash handling, especially in a penny-less system, is a significant factor that drives consumer behavior toward digital payments like credit and debit cards."

    "So, while the direct inconvenience of rounding might seem minor, it acts as one more straw on the camel’s back, reinforcing the overall trend toward a cashless society. It makes the digital option seem more modern, efficient, and precise."


    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #10 on: Today at 10:01:13 AM »
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  • isnt there certain hardware at home depot thats like 2-4 cents? like a tiny washer?


    Offline moneil

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #11 on: Today at 10:11:25 AM »
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  • I give nearly zero credence to "opinion" from artificial intelligence.  If there isn't a citation of a verifiable data source the information is not to be trusted in my view.

    Some people find card or digital payment convenient, others follow incentives, still others stick with habit.  For example, I still prefer to pay bills and contributions by check sent through postal mail.  However, some merchants reduce my bill if I sign up for automatic payment from my bank account and I sometimes take advantage of that.  I often use an Amtrak Mastercard (balance paid off every month) to build up points for free train travel, rather than using cash or writing a check.  My bank pays interest on my checking account balance each month I have at least 15 debit card transactions and I make sure that I do.  Increasingly merchants aren't accepting checks because their validity can't be verified at the time of a purchase.  On the other hand, I may boycott a merchant who doesn't give me the option of paying by cash.  "Back in the day" if one was at a parking meter or a pay-for-parking lot and didn't have cash or exact change they may have to over pay what was owed or risk car impoundment for not paying.  Debit/Credit carts and digital technology eliminate that problem.  Of course, the technology costs money and while the cost may be hidden one will pay for it through the cost of the service.

    Debit and credit card transactions cost the payee a service fee.  My dentist a few months ago said there would be a 3% surcharge for paying by debit or credit card ... I returned to writing him a check.  Some shops won't accept card payment for sales under $5.00, or they add a surcharge to those transactions.

    The bottom line is that there will never be a "perfect system" this side of the Second Coming, but my BS meter goes out of range when some say we will be forced into a "cash less economy". 

    Offline Freind

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #12 on: Today at 10:19:17 AM »
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  • I give nearly zero credence to "opinion" from artificial intelligence.

    A lot better than this forum!

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #13 on: Today at 10:46:30 AM »
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  • Quote
    I give nearly zero credence to "opinion" from artificial intelligence.

    Quote
    A lot better than this forum!



    Or perhaps no better than this forum.  I graduated from high school in 1969 and with a B.Sci. in Animal Science in 1973.  I was on the debate team in high school and whenever we make a "statement of fact" in support of our argument we had to provide a citation of a verifiable source.  All research papers had to copiously annotated.  Citations of fact needed to be from verifiable sources.  With scientific subject matter these sources typically needed to be peer reviewed journal articles.  As I'm about to hit the three-quarter century mark I'm not seeing a need to lower my standards.


    Offline Freind

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    Re: Concern about getting rid of the U.S. penny
    « Reply #14 on: Today at 11:13:55 AM »
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  • Or perhaps no better than this forum.  I graduated from high school in 1969 and with a B.Sci. in Animal Science in 1973.  I was on the debate team in high school and whenever we make a "statement of fact" in support of our argument we had to provide a citation of a verifiable source.  All research papers had to copiously annotated.  Citations of fact needed to be from verifiable sources.  With scientific subject matter these sources typically needed to be peer reviewed journal articles.  As I'm about to hit the three-quarter century mark I'm not seeing a need to lower my standards.

    "Perhaps" includes the possibility of "not", which I think is the correct view. Nobody who uses AI should just take its "reasoning" at face value. The magic is that you can ask it for authoritative quotes and get them instantly, saving LOADS of time. This site wastes SO MUCH time for people.