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Author Topic: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science  (Read 10662 times)

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Offline cassini

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Maybe someone will send them my review.


Offline klasG4e

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Maybe someone will send them my review.
They only take a maximum of 1,500 words.  Your review clocked in at 16,648 words.  


Offline cassini

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I notice on THE ANGELUS's website Fr Robinson's book on modernist faith and science is having an impact according to the comments on the site:

https://angeluspress.org/products/the-realist-guide-to-religion-and-scienceI note from THE ANGELUS PRESS website

In my earlier comments I spoke of the Pythagorean heresies that the early Fathers faught for 300 years. It was fear that these heresies, many of which Bruno was accused of at his trial, would reappear that Cardinal Bellarmine, Pope Paul V and Pope Urban VIII condemned heliocentrism as formal heresy and led to Galileo's trial art which he was found guilty of 'suspicion of heresy.'
The story of the Fathers' fight against the Pythagorean heresies was first told in AA Martinez's book PYTHAGORAS, BRUNO and GALILEO. This book, which I read, was only a buil;d up to another which Alberto told me is now published'

'Anyhow, my final, revised, polished book is now published! Abridged in some parts, but expanded in others: 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Burned-Alive-Giordano-Galileo-Inquisition/dp/1780238967/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1530389794&sr=1-1&keywords=burned+alive%3A+giordano

Anyone interested in the subject - now brought into our times by Fr Robinson SSPX's Book THE REALISTIC GUIDE TO RELIGION AND SCIENCE under the guise of theistic evolutionary Big Bang, Billuions of years, Nebular story of a heliocentric solar system, and the never ending theistic evolution of everything - should read Martinez's book.

Offline Incredulous

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Does anyone know if Fr. Robinson watches TV?



It's tragic to see a traditional Catholic priest influenced by our judaic media.
"Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

Offline klasG4e

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  • Here is a very cogent comment taken from pp. 90-91 of Dr. Robert Sungenis truly outstanding 700 plus page work, Flat Earth / Flat Wrong: An Historical, Biblical and Scientific Analysis: "What does this blatant historiography in modern biblical scholarship mean for the flat-earthers?  It means that they have collectively fallen into the trap set by the modern hermenutic.  These aberrant scholars have convinced the world, and especially the flat-earthers, that the original, and thus correct way that Genesis was written was to depict a flat Earth covered by a dome.  Even 'conservative' scholars have succuмbed.  The late and popular scientist Fr. Stanley Jaki, former professor at Seton Hall University, totally disregards Genesis 1 as accurate history, citing a purported 'conflation' between Day 1, when the 'Light' was made, and Day 4 when the sun and stars were made, as evidence that Genesis cannot be historically accurate since, in his view, the two days are redundant. (footnote 138 -- Genesis 1 Through the Ages,  Stanley L. Jaki, Thomas More Press, 1992.  See my book, Genesis 1-11, for a thorough critiques of Jaki's hermenutical theories.) 

    This conclusion has spawned a whole cadre of Catholic 'scholars' who, following Jaki, have sided with modern sciences' wild and unproven theories about the origins of the universe instead of honestly trying to figure out why the inspired author of Genesis insists on two light sources divided by three days.  A recent example of the effect of the 'Jaki cult' is the book written by Fr. Paul Robinson, a priest of the embattled Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), titled: A Realist Guide to Religion and Science.  The ploy in this work, like many other modern works, is to convince the audience that Genesis 1's 'intent' was not to transcribe accurate history.  He does so by making it appear that Genesis 1 teaches the dubious concept of a firmament as a dome over the Earth, which means that the Earth must necessarily be flat.  Robinson's intent, if you will, is to make the Genesis account look silly.  With this presupposition, he concludes that hardly anything in Genesis 1 can be true (except, as Ray Brown taught, that God created the world) and that to be a 'realist' we must use our 'reason' and come to the conclusion that modern science's advocating of the Big Bang theory must then be true, along with all its accouterments (e.g., evolution, relativity, copernicanism)."

    (On p. 89 of Sungenis above cited book he explains how it was that liberal theologians back in the 1800's actually started the idea that the firmament of Genesis was a dome above a flat earth.  He continues, "They did this to make it appear that Genesis 1's description of the origin of the world is no more accurate and believable than a caveman's drawings.  The whole scheme was designed to discredit the six days of Genesis as accurate history so as to make room for a vast universe of time and chance that evolved over billions of years....Essentially the liberal theologians of that day paved the way for Darwin by relegating Genesis to the realm of Aesop's Fables.)



    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • Here is a very cogent comment taken from pp. 90-91 of Dr. Robert Sungenis truly outstanding 700 plus page work, Flat Earth / Flat Wrong: An Historical, Biblical and Scientific Analysis: "What does this blatant historiography in modern biblical scholarship mean for the flat-earthers?  It means that they have collectively fallen into the trap set by the modern hermenutic.  These aberrant scholars have convinced the world, and especially the flat-earthers, that the original, and thus correct way that Genesis was written was to depict a flat Earth covered by a dome.  Even 'conservative' scholars have succuмbed.  The late and popular scientist Fr. Stanley Jaki, former professor at Seton Hall University, totally disregards Genesis 1 as accurate history, citing a purported 'conflation' between Day 1, when the 'Light' was made, and Day 4 when the sun and stars were made, as evidence that Genesis cannot be historically accurate since, in his view, the two days are redundant. (footnote 138 -- Genesis 1 Through the Ages,  Stanley L. Jaki, Thomas More Press, 1992.  See my book, Genesis 1-11, for a thorough critiques of Jaki's hermenutical theories.)  

    This conclusion has spawned a whole cadre of Catholic 'scholars' who, following Jaki, have sided with modern sciences' wild and unproven theories about the origins of the universe instead of honestly trying to figure out why the inspired author of Genesis insists on two light sources divided by three days. A recent example of the effect of the 'Jaki cult' is the book written by Fr. Paul Robinson, a priest of the embattled Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), titled: A Realist Guide to Religion and Science.  The ploy in this work, like many other modern works, is to convince the audience that Genesis 1's 'intent' was not to transcribe accurate history.  He does so by making it appear that Genesis 1 teaches the dubious concept of a firmament as a dome over the Earth, which means that the Earth must necessarily be flat.  Robinson's intent, if you will, is to make the Genesis account look silly.  With this presupposition, he concludes that hardly anything in Genesis 1 can be true (except, as Ray Brown taught, that God created the world) and that to be a 'realist' we must use our 'reason' and come to the conclusion that modern science's advocating of the Big Bang theory must then be true, along with all its accouterments (e.g., evolution, relativity, copernicanism)."

    (On p. 89 of Sungenis above cited book he explains how it was that liberal theologians back in the 1800's actually started the idea that the firmament of Genesis was a dome above a flat earth.  He continues, "They did this to make it appear that Genesis 1's description of the origin of the world is no more accurate and believable than a caveman's drawings.  The whole scheme was designed to discredit the six days of Genesis as accurate history so as to make room for a vast universe of time and chance that evolved over billions of years....Essentially the liberal theologians of that day paved the way for Darwin by relegating Genesis to the realm of Aesop's Fables.)

    Shame on the SSPX (which "hasn't changed" and "won't compromise") for promoting this modernist trash.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Merry

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  • The first time I was at a Fr. Robinson sermon, he started with the words, "Let's get real."

    Really!
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline klasG4e

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  • Here is a very cogent comment taken from pp. 90-91 of Dr. Robert Sungenis truly outstanding 700 plus page work, Flat Earth / Flat Wrong: An Historical, Biblical and Scientific Analysis: "What does this blatant historiography in modern biblical scholarship mean for the flat-earthers?  It means that they have collectively fallen into the trap set by the modern hermenutic.  These aberrant scholars have convinced the world, and especially the flat-earthers, that the original, and thus correct way that Genesis was written was to depict a flat Earth covered by a dome.  Even 'conservative' scholars have succuмbed.  The late and popular scientist Fr. Stanley Jaki, former professor at Seton Hall University, totally disregards Genesis 1 as accurate history, citing a purported 'conflation' between Day 1, when the 'Light' was made, and Day 4 when the sun and stars were made, as evidence that Genesis cannot be historically accurate since, in his view, the two days are redundant. (footnote 138 -- Genesis 1 Through the Ages,  Stanley L. Jaki, Thomas More Press, 1992.  See my book, Genesis 1-11, for a thorough critiques of Jaki's hermenutical theories.)  

    This conclusion has spawned a whole cadre of Catholic 'scholars' who, following Jaki, have sided with modern sciences' wild and unproven theories about the origins of the universe instead of honestly trying to figure out why the inspired author of Genesis insists on two light sources divided by three days. A recent example of the effect of the 'Jaki cult' is the book written by Fr. Paul Robinson, a priest of the embattled Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), titled: A Realist Guide to Religion and Science.  The ploy in this work, like many other modern works, is to convince the audience that Genesis 1's 'intent' was not to transcribe accurate history.  He does so by making it appear that Genesis 1 teaches the dubious concept of a firmament as a dome over the Earth, which means that the Earth must necessarily be flat.  Robinson's intent, if you will, is to make the Genesis account look silly.  With this presupposition, he concludes that hardly anything in Genesis 1 can be true (except, as Ray Brown taught, that God created the world) and that to be a 'realist' we must use our 'reason' and come to the conclusion that modern science's advocating of the Big Bang theory must then be true, along with all its accouterments (e.g., evolution, relativity, copernicanism)."

    (On p. 89 of Sungenis above cited book he explains how it was that liberal theologians back in the 1800's actually started the idea that the firmament of Genesis was a dome above a flat earth.  He continues, "They did this to make it appear that Genesis 1's description of the origin of the world is no more accurate and believable than a caveman's drawings.  The whole scheme was designed to discredit the six days of Genesis as accurate history so as to make room for a vast universe of time and chance that evolved over billions of years....Essentially the liberal theologians of that day paved the way for Darwin by relegating Genesis to the realm of Aesop's Fables.)

    I sent Fr. Robinson a request for a reply to the above critique.  I am not holding my breath for an answer, but if I get one I will try to post here unless Father requests that his reply be kept confidential.


    Offline Struthio

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  • The first time I was at a Fr. Robinson sermon, he started with the words, "Let's get real."

    Really!

    When ABP Lefebvre once had to leave Africa, a candidate for baptism uttered worries, fearing that Lefebvre might not return in time to baptize him. Lefebvre reports that he had to explain the poor catechumen about BoD to ease him. Unfortunately there is no tradition concerning the question who had trained the catechumen. 

    Fr. Robinson is roughly 200 years late. I don't really think that he is a conscious agent of the foe. Such agents are harder to detect.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline cassini

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  • Here is a very cogent comment taken from pp. 90-91 of Dr. Robert Sungenis truly outstanding 700 plus page work, Flat Earth / Flat Wrong: An Historical, Biblical and Scientific Analysis: "What does this blatant historiography in modern biblical scholarship mean for the flat-earthers?  It means that they have collectively fallen into the trap set by the modern hermenutic.  These aberrant scholars have convinced the world, and especially the flat-earthers, that the original, and thus correct way that Genesis was written was to depict a flat Earth covered by a dome.  Even 'conservative' scholars have succuмbed.  The late and popular scientist Fr. Stanley Jaki, former professor at Seton Hall University, totally disregards Genesis 1 as accurate history, citing a purported 'conflation' between Day 1, when the 'Light' was made, and Day 4 when the sun and stars were made, as evidence that Genesis cannot be historically accurate since, in his view, the two days are redundant. (footnote 138 -- Genesis 1 Through the Ages,  Stanley L. Jaki, Thomas More Press, 1992.  See my book, Genesis 1-11, for a thorough critiques of Jaki's hermenutical theories.)  

    This conclusion has spawned a whole cadre of Catholic 'scholars' who, following Jaki, have sided with modern sciences' wild and unproven theories about the origins of the universe instead of honestly trying to figure out why the inspired author of Genesis insists on two light sources divided by three days. A recent example of the effect of the 'Jaki cult' is the book written by Fr. Paul Robinson, a priest of the embattled Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), titled: A Realist Guide to Religion and Science.  The ploy in this work, like many other modern works, is to convince the audience that Genesis 1's 'intent' was not to transcribe accurate history.  He does so by making it appear that Genesis 1 teaches the dubious concept of a firmament as a dome over the Earth, which means that the Earth must necessarily be flat.  Robinson's intent, if you will, is to make the Genesis account look silly.  With this presupposition, he concludes that hardly anything in Genesis 1 can be true (except, as Ray Brown taught, that God created the world) and that to be a 'realist' we must use our 'reason' and come to the conclusion that modern science's advocating of the Big Bang theory must then be true, along with all its accouterments (e.g., evolution, relativity, copernicanism)."

    (On p. 89 of Sungenis above cited book he explains how it was that liberal theologians back in the 1800's actually started the idea that the firmament of Genesis was a dome above a flat earth.  He continues, "They did this to make it appear that Genesis 1's description of the origin of the world is no more accurate and believable than a caveman's drawings.  The whole scheme was designed to discredit the six days of Genesis as accurate history so as to make room for a vast universe of time and chance that evolved over billions of years....Essentially the liberal theologians of that day paved the way for Darwin by relegating Genesis to the realm of Aesop's Fables.)

    Well said GlasG4e, excellent logic and reasoning.

    But as the Bible says, ' There is nothing new under the sun.'  A six day creation might now be a dogma if St Augustine had read your post. Did you know it was he who poured doubt on the six day creation based on the idea that you could not have light for day and night before the sun was created. St Augustine must never have seen lightening at night, lighting up the sky without the sun. If St Augustine went to a football match at night today, he would not believe what electric lights can light up.

    In Genesis it tells us God created LIGHT on the first day, no doubt material light (electromagnetism) and ‘the intellectual or angelic light,’ a metaphor for the angels, ‘signifying the angelic nature and mystically the light of their science and grace with which they were endowed at their creation.'

    Light as we now know, is but one effect of electromagnetism. Having filled the universe with invisible electromagnetism (LIGHT) God was well able to turn on light and no light on earth without the sun.

    As for the dome, well what does every person on global Earth see in the sky above him or her? a dome that is the sky. One does not need to be on a flat earth to view this dome, just as heaven does not need to be a flat heaven for Christ and others to ascended up to heaven.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • Somewhere online I ran across a Bishop Williamson conference or sermon, in which he made the following comment on the modernist Fr. Teilhard de Chardonnay, which seems equally applicable to Fr. Stanley Jaki:

    “If you ask a scientist about de Chardin, they will say, ‘Well, he might be an excellent theologian, but he’s certainly no scientist.’

    And if you ask a theologian about de Chardin, they will say, ‘Well, he may be an excellent scientist, but he’s certainly no theologian.’”

    Meaning, of course, that he is neither scientist nor theologian, but simply a modernist dreamer.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Incredulous

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  • The first time I was at a Fr. Robinson sermon, he started with the words, "Let's get real."

    Really!

    Reminiscent of Bishop Williamson's lecture comment to describe the mindset of existentialists...

               "It's Reality man!"
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline hollingsworth

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  • Cassini:
    Quote
    Alas popes since 1835 at least have been sucked in to the post-Galileo position on faith and science, the Modernist one….
     
     ...On the matter of faith and science, well there is a dilemma for traditionalists here. You see the thing is that most traditionalists believe all popes were traditional in the Church until Vatican II, so when it is said popes considered within the traditional time played their part in the faith and science reformation that led to Modernism, that upsets them and truth is lost to ideology.

     
    Thanks, Cassini, for this input. Personally, I wouldn’t spend 10 minutes reading Fr. Robinson’s book. But someone’s got to do it, (I guess.). Aside from the helio/geo- centric arguments raging for centuties, you point out a very painful reality, i.e. most traditionalists accept the great traditionalist/modernist divide occurring directly after V2. Most Pre-V2 popes were models of Catholic orthodoxy, though some of them were a bit murderous, promicuous and up to their ears in court intrigue. After V2, pop.es have been, to a man, evil and bad to the bone.

     
    It is all rather simplistic. But the average sspxer seems able to live with the simple notion. And the Society, since its inception, has done little to dispel it. In fact. I would say, it has done much to encourage it.  Much easier to compartmentalize church history, and not to have to do deal with ragged edges of that history.

     
    Though Michael Hoffman is demonized by many trads, I would tentatively recommend his latest book, The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome. I don’t like the way he treats particular saints like St. Alphonsus and others. Nevertheless, he has an historical perspective sorely lacking among many trads. I could be wrong. Maybe he’s the arch heretic that some rabid trads portray. But his latest work, IMO, should at least deliver folks from the idea that the Church fell off the edge of the earth at Pius XII’s death or thereabouts. A precipitate decline had commenced centuries earlier.  The heliocentric argument is just one of many of the church's capitulation to error down through the centuries.

    Offline Struthio

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  • But as the Bible says, ' There is nothing new under the sun.'  A six day creation might now be a dogma if St Augustine had read your [GlasG4e] post. Did you know it was he who poured doubt on the six day creation based on the idea that you could not have light for day and night before the sun was created.

    That's a misrepresentation of facts. St. Augustine identified the pre-solar light with spiritual/angelic light.

    St. Augustine has several reasons to reject a six day creation, including textual reasons. He argued that time cannot be created on the fourth day. He asked, how does Gen 2,4-6 fit with days in Gen 1. And he saw Sir 18,1: "He that liveth for ever created all things at once."

    I think you grossly underestimate St. Augustine.

    What are your interpretations of Gen 2,4-6 and Sir 18,1?
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline klasG4e

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  •  
    Though Michael Hoffman is demonized by many trads, I would tentatively recommend his latest book, The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome. I don’t like the way he treats particular saints like St. Alphonsus and others.

    Hoffman in my opinion is definitely a mixed bag.  Over the years he has written some very good things (and he put up a very admirable defense of Bishop Williamson regarding the h0Ɩ0h0αx affair), but to call into question the very sanctity of some of the great pre-Vatican II saints including that Doctor of the Church (and founder of the Redemptorists and patron of confessors and moral theologians) St. Alphonus Liguori in my opinion is definitely beyond the pale.  For docuмentation of same scroll down a bit at this thread: https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/michael-hoffman-quotes/