Author Topic: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science (Read 10626 times)

klasG4e · « **Reply #75 on:** September 16, 2018, 05:55:30 PM »

Perhaps, you were just trying to be tongue in cheek. Actually though, Hitler -- it should be obvious -- is not a part of the thread, let alone does he bring it to its climax.

klasG4e · « **Reply #76 on:** September 17, 2018, 09:50:05 PM »

Perhaps, Fr. Robinson laments missing this conference where he could join speakers such as Stacey Trasancos who professes a belief in the Big Bang and professes her unbelief in geocentrism: http://www.catholicanswersconference.com/speakers/dr-stacy-trasancos/

I think his book would be a popular one at the conference.

Struthio · « **Reply #77 on:** September 17, 2018, 10:09:12 PM »

Quote from: klasG4e on September 16, 2018, 05:55:30 PM

Perhaps, you were just trying to be tongue in cheek. Actually though, Hitler -- it should be obvious -- is not a part of the thread, let alone does he bring it to its climax.

Sorry, I get fed up with this holo-stuff, though it should be mentioned where the SSPX is heading as you did.

@cassini
They are trying to make your children and grandchildren earth-movers.

cassini · « **Reply #78 on:** September 25, 2018, 07:16:10 AM »

My oh my, how is Fr Robinson going to take this? Imagine writing a book only to find someone else writing a book dismissing it.

http://flatearthflatwrong.com/product/scientific-heresies-and-their-effect-on-the-church/

Scientific Heresies and Their Effect on the Church
flatearthflatwrong.com
Scientific Heresies and Their Effect on the Church provides a detailed and comprehensive rebuttal to the scientific, theological and exegetical views held by Fr. Paul Robinson, including his views …

Scientific Heresies and Their Effect on the Church
Scientific Heresies and Their Effect on the Church provides a detailed and comprehensive rebuttal to the scientific, theological and exegetical views held by Fr. Paul Robinson, including his views on: The Big Bang; long-ages for the Universe and Earth; progressive creationism; heliocentrism; a local Noachic flood; and current views on radiometry and sedimentology.
This book was written for two purposes: First, to educate the public at large by a critical examination of science and history, especially in the areas of cosmogony and cosmology. Although modern science purports to know the origin and operation of the universe, in reality it comprehends very little and actually spreads more falsehood today than it does truth. On its face, modern science is the last formidable bastion of secular society. It is touted as impregnable and invincible. Indeed, today’s scientists have the education, the grants, the sophisticated equipment, the iconic image, the universities, the newspapers and the general media on their side. Opposing voices can barely form a whisper of contention. It is truly a Goliath if there ever was one in our modern age and it is as big as the universe itself.
Second, this book contends with Catholics, and anyone else, who have accepted the major teachings of modern science and thereby have rejected either biblical revelation, the traditional ecclesiastical consensus, or the official magisterial statements that disagree with modern science’s theories or conclusions. As one can see by the title, I have chosen to focus on the recent book by Fr. Paul Robinson, The Realist Guide to Religion and Science. He is a priest of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), a very conservative but embattled branch of Roman Catholicism. The reason he was chosen is normally we don’t see many examples of staunchly conservative Catholic groups being unduly influenced by the theories of modern science to the point they either reject or neutralize the biblical, traditional and magisterial teachings. If there is any group of Catholics from whom we could expect a rigid traditional Catholic view of either the Bible or its interpretation, it is the SSPX, at least in its beginnings under its founder Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. But like many conservative groups today, the inevitable tendency is to judge scientific issues according to the world’s “status quo” and to avoid being dubbed “Fundamentalist.” Fr. Robinson’s book, insofar as he represents the SSPX, has proven to be no exception.
Scientific Heresies and Their Effect on the Church provides a detailed and comprehensive rebuttal to the scientific, theological and exegetical views held by Fr. Paul Robinson, including his views on: The Big Bang; long-ages for the Universe and Earth; progressive creationism; heliocentrism; a local Noachic flood; and current views on radiometry and sedimentology.
575 pages.

Struthio · « **Reply #79 on:** September 25, 2018, 07:42:13 AM »

Quote from: cassini on September 25, 2018, 07:16:10 AM

Quote from: http://flatearthflatwrong.com
[...]
If there is any group of Catholics from whom we could expect a rigid traditional Catholic view of either the Bible or its interpretation, it is the SSPX, at least in its beginnings under its founder Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. But like many conservative groups today, the inevitable tendency is to judge scientific issues according to the world’s “status quo” and to avoid being dubbed “Fundamentalist.”
[...]

Did Abp Lefebvre comment on the topic? I have read some of his books and I don't recall that he mentioned scientific issues.

Ten years ago I read an anonymous comment in a forum saying that Bp Williamson was the only one of the four SSPX bishops ordained by Lefebvre believing that the flood was worldwide.

klasG4e · « **Reply #80 on:** September 25, 2018, 10:59:22 AM »

Quote from: cassini on September 25, 2018, 07:16:10 AM

My oh my, how is Fr Robinson going to take this? Imagine writing a book only to find someone else writing a book dismissing it.

http://flatearthflatwrong.com/product/scientific-heresies-and-their-effect-on-the-church/

Scientific Heresies and Their Effect on the Church
flatearthflatwrong.com
Scientific Heresies and Their Effect on the Church provides a detailed and comprehensive rebuttal to the scientific, theological and exegetical views held by Fr. Paul Robinson, including his views …

Scientific Heresies and Their Effect on the Church
Scientific Heresies and Their Effect on the Church provides a detailed and comprehensive rebuttal to the scientific, theological and exegetical views held by Fr. Paul Robinson, including his views on: The Big Bang; long-ages for the Universe and Earth; progressive creationism; heliocentrism; a local Noachic flood; and current views on radiometry and sedimentology.
This book was written for two purposes: First, to educate the public at large by a critical examination of science and history, especially in the areas of cosmogony and cosmology. Although modern science purports to know the origin and operation of the universe, in reality it comprehends very little and actually spreads more falsehood today than it does truth. On its face, modern science is the last formidable bastion of secular society. It is touted as impregnable and invincible. Indeed, today’s scientists have the education, the grants, the sophisticated equipment, the iconic image, the universities, the newspapers and the general media on their side. Opposing voices can barely form a whisper of contention. It is truly a Goliath if there ever was one in our modern age and it is as big as the universe itself.
Second, this book contends with Catholics, and anyone else, who have accepted the major teachings of modern science and thereby have rejected either biblical revelation, the traditional ecclesiastical consensus, or the official magisterial statements that disagree with modern science’s theories or conclusions. As one can see by the title, I have chosen to focus on the recent book by Fr. Paul Robinson, The Realist Guide to Religion and Science. He is a priest of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), a very conservative but embattled branch of Roman Catholicism. The reason he was chosen is normally we don’t see many examples of staunchly conservative Catholic groups being unduly influenced by the theories of modern science to the point they either reject or neutralize the biblical, traditional and magisterial teachings. If there is any group of Catholics from whom we could expect a rigid traditional Catholic view of either the Bible or its interpretation, it is the SSPX, at least in its beginnings under its founder Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. But like many conservative groups today, the inevitable tendency is to judge scientific issues according to the world’s “status quo” and to avoid being dubbed “Fundamentalist.” Fr. Robinson’s book, insofar as he represents the SSPX, has proven to be no exception.
Scientific Heresies and Their Effect on the Church provides a detailed and comprehensive rebuttal to the scientific, theological and exegetical views held by Fr. Paul Robinson, including his views on: The Big Bang; long-ages for the Universe and Earth; progressive creationism; heliocentrism; a local Noachic flood; and current views on radiometry and sedimentology.
575 pages.

May God abundantly bless Dr. Robert Sungenis for all the heroic work he has done and continues to do in the defense of the Catholic Faith, and that amidst many ongoing scurrilous, dishonest, and even irrational attacks on that work and even upon his character. A significant part of that work has involved his clearly written and very edifying material in the area of modern science and how scientism with its many erroneous notions has been used to subvert Sacred Scripture and the Church.

On a personal note, I can say that I have learned a tremendous amount -- and been quite inspired in the process -- by reading a good number of Dr. Sungenis' books including his mulit-volume Galileo Was Wrong -- The Church Was Right and Flat Earth -- Flat Wrong. Robert has most definitely used the talents God has given him. I suspect very few of us have done anywhere near as much.

klasG4e · « **Reply #81 on:** September 25, 2018, 11:15:30 AM »

cassini · « **Reply #82 on:** September 25, 2018, 12:24:03 PM »

Quote from: Struthio on September 25, 2018, 07:42:13 AM

Did Abp Lefebvre comment on the topic? I have read some of his books and I don't recall that he mentioned scientific issues.

Ten years ago I read an anonymous comment in a forum saying that Bp Williamson was the only one of the four SSPX bishops ordained by Lefebvre believing that the flood was worldwide.

A friend tells me he read that Archbishop Lefevbre said we should read Genesis 'in its simplicity.'

That to me means literally as written by Moses according to the inspiration of God.

Geremia · « **Reply #83 on:** September 25, 2018, 01:16:11 PM »

Quote from: Struthio on September 25, 2018, 07:42:13 AM

Did Abp Lefebvre comment on the topic? I have read some of his books and I don't recall that he mentioned scientific issues.

Yes, Sungenis quotes on p. 27 from Abp. Lefebvre's Open Letter to Confused Catholics p. 130:

Quote from: Abp. Lefebvre, ch. 17. What is Tradition?

In this respect, the Modernists have got what they wanted and more. In what passes for seminaries, they teach anthropology, psychoanalysis and Marx in place of St. Thomas Aquinas. The principles of Thomist philosophy are rejected in favor of vague systems which themselves recognize their inability to explain the economy of the Universe, putting forward as they do the philosophy of the absurd. One latter-day revolutionary, a muddle-headed priest much heeded by intellectuals, who put sex at the heart of everything, was bold enough to declare at public meetings: “The scientific hypotheses of the ancients were pure nonsense and it is on such nonsense that St. Thomas and Origen based their systems.” Immediately afterwards, he fell into the absurdity of defining life as “an evolutionary chain of biologically inexplicable facts.” How can he know that, if it is inexplicable? How, I would add, can a priest discard the only explanation, which is God?

Struthio · « **Reply #84 on:** September 25, 2018, 07:54:25 PM »

Quote from: Geremia on September 25, 2018, 01:16:11 PM

Yes, Sungenis quotes on p. 27 from Abp. Lefebvre's Open Letter to Confused Catholics p. 130:

Quote from: Abp. Lefebvre, ch. 17. What is Tradition?
[...] Immediately afterwards, he fell into the absurdity of defining life as “an evolutionary chain of biologically inexplicable facts.” How can he know that, if it is inexplicable? How, I would add, can a priest discard the only explanation, which is God?

“An evolutionary chain of biologically inexplicable facts” is explained by “the only explanation, which is God”.

Sounds like theistic evolution.

klasG4e · « **Reply #85 on:** September 26, 2018, 11:34:58 AM »

Quote from: cassini on September 25, 2018, 07:16:10 AM

Scientific Heresies and Their Effect on the Church provides a detailed and comprehensive rebuttal to the scientific, theological and exegetical views held by Fr. Paul Robinson, including his views on: The Big Bang; long-ages for the Universe and Earth; progressive creationism; heliocentrism; a local Noachic flood; and current views on radiometry and sedimentology.
575 pages.

As for the false idea of "progressive creationism," it can perhaps be best summed up as God having used His divine power intermittently to help the creation develop over billions of years. (A summing up of the summing up -- a modernistic sophistry!)

klasG4e · « **Reply #86 on:** September 26, 2018, 11:50:25 AM »

Quote from: klasG4e on September 26, 2018, 11:34:58 AM

As for the false idea of "progressive creationism," it can perhaps be best summed up as God having used His divine power intermittently to help the creation develop over billions of years. (A summing up of the summing up -- a modernistic sophistry!)

Three other alternative views with the third one, of course, being the traditional/true Catholic view:

1) Theistic evolution (God built into the creation the power, by itself, to develop over billions of years)

2) Secular evolution (Matter created itself and developed over billions of years)

3) Six day creation by divine fiat

klasG4e · « **Reply #87 on:** October 06, 2018, 01:49:51 PM »

I recently received my copy of Dr. Sungenis' (I always refer to him as a doctor because he earned his very legitimate PhD by way of a very hard earned and extraordinary 700 page thesis on geocentrism) 564 page book Scientific Heresies and Their #Effect on the Church --A Critique of: [Fr. Paul Robinson's] "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science. This book is clearly an outstanding achievement by -- if the truth be known -- a prodigious Catholic mind.

That said, the book is an absolutely devastating -- and I can't overemphasize the word devastating -- and highly docuмented critique at what is being and has been mainstreamed into the Catholic Church and now into the SSPX. This mainstreaming is being done in terms of trying to square the circle by trying to conform the dictates of modern heretical science with the truth taught by our tradition based, scripture based, and Magisterium based Catholic Church. It is that truth which has been passed down to us all the way from the time of the Fathers of that Church.

We owe Dr. Sungenis a real debt of gratitude for this book. I hope and pray that it causes some real shock waves througout the SSPX and the Catholic Church and beyond. They would be most well deserved.

Stanley N · « **Reply #88 on:** October 06, 2018, 04:18:44 PM »

Quote from: klasG4e on October 06, 2018, 01:49:51 PM

I recently received my copy of Dr. Sungenis' (I always refer to him as a doctor because he earned his very legitimate PhD by way of a very hard earned and extraordinary 700 page thesis on geocentrism)

Thank you for sharing this. This ends up explaining a lot.
If his "dissertation" were academically rigorous, he could have taken it to a real academic institution, perhaps taken some classes in bible studies and theology, and received a recognized, accredited degree.
Instead, he apparently went to Calamus International University. It no longer exists, but was registered in Venuatu (an island nation in the south Pacific) at the time. Registration as a business does not mean it was accredited as a university. CIU degrees are not recognized in the US, and it was not really accredited. CIU is generally recognized as a "diploma mill" with at best, very low standards. As an example, a reviewer for his "dissertation" was Bennet, who was coauthor of GWW, which as you imply was substantially his "dissertation". That alone would look like a conflict of interest at most real universities. Furthermore, did people with appropriate credentials ever approved his dissertation? I see zero evidence it ever received peer review.
So thank you for pointing out that Sungenis appears to have a fake PhD.

klasG4e · « **Reply #89 on:** October 06, 2018, 08:01:42 PM »

Quote from: Stanley N on October 06, 2018, 04:18:44 PM

Thank you for sharing this. This ends up explaining a lot.
If his "dissertation" were academically rigorous, he could have taken it to a real academic institution, perhaps taken some classes in bible studies and theology, and received a recognized, accredited degree.
Instead, he apparently went to Calamus International University. It no longer exists, but was registered in Venuatu (an island nation in the south Pacific) at the time. Registration as a business does not mean it was accredited as a university. CIU degrees are not recognized in the US, and it was not really accredited. CIU is generally recognized as a "diploma mill" with at best, very low standards. As an example, a reviewer for his "dissertation" was Bennet, who was coauthor of GWW, which as you imply was substantially his "dissertation". That alone would look like a conflict of interest at most real universities. Furthermore, did people with appropriate credentials ever approved his dissertation? I see zero evidence it ever received peer review.
So thank you for pointing out that Sungenis appears to have a fake PhD.

Stanley, you like many, many others have a very distorted and largely erroneous idea of the Sungenis PhD issue. If you are of good faith I would ask you to communicate directly with Dr. Sungenis so that you could hear his position directly from him. For the time being, I will merely point out that many, many individuals are running around with a PhD from prestigious universities that are not worth the paper they are written on. For the purposes of this thread which I don't want to go down a rabbit hole by your defamation of Sungenis, I hope you will let us know whether or not you will act honorably and reach out to Dr. Sungenis personally like a good truth seeking Catholic and seek to find out his position as regards what you have stated above.

Author Topic: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science (Read 10626 times)

klasG4e

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

klasG4e

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

Struthio

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

cassini

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

Struthio

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

klasG4e

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

klasG4e

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

cassini

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

Geremia

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

Struthio

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

klasG4e

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

klasG4e

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

klasG4e

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

Stanley N

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science

klasG4e

Re: Comments on Fr Robinson's new book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science