Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Christianity in Wartime Germany, and Religion in World War Two  (Read 588 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Renzo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 690
  • Reputation: +335/-0
  • Gender: Male
Christianity in Wartime Germany, and Religion in World War Two
« on: February 04, 2013, 06:55:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • RELIGION IN WORLD WAR II


    "Christianity had a favored status in World War II Germany. For example, Christian crosses were displayed in many public school classrooms and other public buildings, especially in Bavaria and other largely Catholic regions. German army soldiers' belt buckles bore the words "God With Us,” and churches in wartime Germany were packed. In spite of some tensions between religious and political leaders, the vast majority of Germans (including the clergy) remained loyal to Hitler and his regime to the bitter end. Many people mistakenly accept the propaganda view that during World War II the US and its allies supported Christianity, while Germany and its Axis partners were satanically anti-religious. But America’s most important military ally was the Soviet Union, a belligerently atheist state that ruthlessly suppressed religion. Runtime: 50:28 mins."

    http://ihr.org/audio/archives/christianity-wartime-germany-and-religion-world-war-two
    We are true israel and israel is in bondage.  


    Offline s2srea

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5106
    • Reputation: +3896/-48
    • Gender: Male
    Christianity in Wartime Germany, and Religion in World War Two
    « Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 07:50:43 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • While I would certainly support Germany and Spain over the Allied powers, I don't feel that the Germans and Germany of WWII were really motivated by Christianity and support of the Church or Kingship of Christ; I think its fair to say that that wasn't their sole aim. Was it good they attempted to stop the spread of Communism and the powers of the Jєωs? Of course, and in that I support them completely. However, before we cannonize the entire cause, it would be important to question which 'God' it was they really wanted 'with them'. It has been said here that if Hitler had won, God could have used the empire for the good of Christendom. True, but God can do anything; yet he chose not to in that case.


    Offline Renzo

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 690
    • Reputation: +335/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Christianity in Wartime Germany, and Religion in World War Two
    « Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 09:39:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: s2srea
    While I would certainly support Germany and Spain over the Allied powers, I don't feel that the Germans and Germany of WWII were really motivated by Christianity and support of the Church or Kingship of Christ; I think its fair to say that that wasn't their sole aim. Was it good they attempted to stop the spread of Communism and the powers of the Jєωs? Of course, and in that I support them completely. However, before we cannonize the entire cause, it would be important to question which 'God' it was they really wanted 'with them'. It has been said here that if Hitler had won, God could have used the empire for the good of Christendom. True, but God can do anything; yet he chose not to in that case.


    yeah, pretty much anything from the right gets crushed in modern times
    We are true israel and israel is in bondage.  

    Offline brotherfrancis75

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 220
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Christianity in Wartime Germany, and Religion in World War Two
    « Reply #3 on: February 05, 2013, 01:38:08 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Renzo
    Quote from: s2srea
    While I would certainly support Germany and Spain over the Allied powers, I don't feel that the Germans and Germany of WWII were really motivated by Christianity and support of the Church or Kingship of Christ; I think its fair to say that that wasn't their sole aim. Was it good they attempted to stop the spread of Communism and the powers of the Jєωs? Of course, and in that I support them completely. However, before we cannonize the entire cause, it would be important to question which 'God' it was they really wanted 'with them'. It has been said here that if Hitler had won, God could have used the empire for the good of Christendom. True, but God can do anything; yet he chose not to in that case.


    yeah, pretty much anything from the right gets crushed in modern times

    As Catholics we can approach this question in serious ways.  In particular, there's Christ the Sufferer and Christ the Fighter.  Both are the one true God, but for we humans there's also quite a different emphasis between those two sides of Our Lord.  Christ the Fighter can be seen in the great heroes of the Franciscan Third Order:  Dante, Giotto and Columbus.  Of course He is seen in our greatest Roman Emperors:  Augustus, Constantine, Marcian, Justinian, Charlemagne, Charles the Bald, the three Ottos, Henry II, Frederick Barbarossa, Frederick the Second and the many very great Hapsburg Emperors, perhaps ending with our great Emperor Joseph the Second who so gloriously crushed the power of Islam forever.  Following them we can see Christ the Fighter especially in Mozart and Wagner, although He is in truth also visible in Napoleons I, II, III and IV.  Then in the Twentieth Century Christ the Fighter appears more than a little Germanic.

    Our Emperor Napoleon III and our Holy Father Pope Pius IX were the foremost patrons of Richard Wagner.  For us to fail to see a great devotion to Christ the King in the works of Richard Wagner is surely some sort of great laziness on our part.  Pope Pius IX and Emperor Napoleon III did not give their greatest patronage to Wagner because Wagner lacked Christian excellence.  Wagner's father-in-law was Fr. Franz Liszt and Fr. Liszt's influence on Wagner was tremendously Catholic.  So was the effect of the vast patronage Wagner received from Pope Pius IX, Emperor Napoleon III and King Ludwig of Bavaria.  Pope Pius XII was also a most devoted disciple of Richard Wagner.

    Needless to say, the most famous German Chancellor was also known for his considerable Wagnerian enthusiasm.  He whose name must not be mentioned was in fact also the champion of the German aristocracy of those days.  The highest ranks of that aristocracy were Catholic as was, not by chance, he whose name must not be mentioned.  But the idea that the German aristocracy would have accepted as their Champion anyone who were anything but a respectable and solid Roman Catholic is absurd beyond belief.  Richard Wagner was, so to speak, the flavor du jour of our Catholic aristocracy and great enthusiasm for Wagner was anything but some indication of marginality among our most blue-blooded Catholic aristocrats of those days.  That our Catholic aristocracy is ultra-Germanic to its core should be something too obvious among us to require much discussion.

    As for "canonizing the entire cause," what care we about anything but the Roman Catholic part of that or any other cause?  And the Roman Catholic part of it was more than a little impressive, from he whose name must not be mentioned downwards.  That Fortress Europe was Catholic Europe isn't exactly difficult to see.  All the same characteristics as in the days of Constantine.  The awesomely epic Roman continuity is, as we say, "blinding."

    Unless we've never even heard of any historic Catholic Christ the Fighter and think that suffering is all He has ever done or cared about.  But perhaps not all Catholics can be fine housewives...  Many, certainly, but far from all.  There must also remain we Catholics of the male "persuasion."

    And for us Christ the Fighter shouldn't be altogether a stranger.  Then the truth might even begin to dawn that Germany was most assuredly fighting for the kingly Christ the Fighter, and hence Christ the King, in the two world wars, but especially and above all in the second war, the singular and incomparable Holy Crusade Against Bolshevism.  And then perhaps the tragic side of those days should also be exactly what we would expect from our Catholic ancestors who, in following Christ the Fighter, cannot be strangers to His inescapable Divine Doppelganger Christ the Sufferer either.

    After all, the Holy Cross of Fortress Europe was also the ancient Cross of Roman Catholic Knighthood.  And Catholic men cannot be too surprised when we too often end up crucified with Our Lord Christ the Fighter high on it.  In the end Christ the Fighter and Christ the Sufferer are the one God, not two.  The only road to Victory is through Death.

     


    Offline Renzo

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 690
    • Reputation: +335/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Christianity in Wartime Germany, and Religion in World War Two
    « Reply #4 on: February 05, 2013, 02:35:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Interesting replies.  I think the point of the talk is that nαzι germany did not have a goal to suppress catholics or protestants, not that they were trying to establish a catholic theocracy in europe.  And it had prominent members who were more pagan, than anything else. Yet the speaker asserts, in regards to religion the nαzιs actually suppressed militant atheists, because they believed the nation needed faith in God.  Quite a contrast to the soviet union and china, who's official state religions were atheism.  Also, nαzι germany seemed much less anti-catholic and anti-protestant, than the united states of america does today, according to mr. weber.  





    We are true israel and israel is in bondage.