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Author Topic: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist  (Read 6694 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2023, 09:58:21 PM »
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  • I suppose we should investigate Sean’s sources on Card Newman with a fine tooth comb.

    In looking at Newman’s motivations to convert, it appears there’s a good argument that he was a Marrano who bought his high office with his Jєωιѕн banker Daddy’s wealth, with the purpose to infiltrate and undemine the the Church. 

    He’s definitely not a Saint and more likely a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #31 on: April 29, 2023, 10:20:35 PM »
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  • I suppose we should investigate Sean’s sources on Card Newman with a fine tooth comb.

    In looking at Newman’s motivations to convert, it appears there’s a good argument that he was a Marrano who bought his high office with his Jєωιѕн banker Daddy’s wealth, with the purpose to infiltrate and undemine the the Church.

    The sources are all at your disposal, in the citations provided.

    If you were referring to the citations I transcribed from his book in the other thread, you will find then enumerated just as I gave them here;

    https://www.newmanreader.org/works/rambler/consulting.html

    As regards the notion that Newman was a heterodox infiltrator, you have established neither his heterodoxity, nor his insincerity, and more than this, your theory implicates his defenders (which include St. Pius X, whose sainthood you would thereby also call into question).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #32 on: April 29, 2023, 10:25:40 PM »
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  • Yeah, Cardinal Rampolla, another example of the problems of Pope Leo XIII’s papacy.:laugh1:
    I am not aware of any problems w/ the Papacy of Leo XIII...:confused:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #33 on: April 30, 2023, 08:57:50 AM »
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  • I am not aware of any problems w/ the Papacy of Leo XIII...:confused:

    ‘In the nineteenth century, as man’s knowledge of antiquity increased, many strange voices began to attack the divine origin and truthfulness of the Bible. In the ensuing storm, the traditional voice of Christendom rose clear and calm in the person of Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903) with his encyclical Providentissimus Deus, solemnly affirming that the entire Bible is God’s word, holy and true. He outlined a stricter scientific method for studying the Holy books, which was to bear great fruit in the following years.’---The Holy Bible, Catholic Press, Inc., Chicago, 1950.

    Given the history of Biblical changes undertaken by the 1950s when the above piece was written, one could take the idea that Providentissimus Deus (1893) or any other encyclical on the study of Scripture ‘bore great fruit’ with a pinch of salt. The tell-tale words in the paragraph above are ‘as man’s knowledge of antiquity increased,’ that is, as man’s ‘secular theories of origins increased.’ By 1893, with ‘proof’ for an evolved heliocentric reading of Scripture now falsified, surely it was time to address and correct this matter of Biblical history and Pope Leo XIII’s Providentissimus Deus was surely the place to do it.   

    As any Catholic would expect, having first introduced the reader to a proper view of the Catholic Bible, its divine inspiration, its purpose and use by the Church over the centuries, its inerrancy in all its parts, all done in the most beautiful holy language, this good Pope then correctly identified the false science of those attacking the Scriptures and the faith contained within them. With all this in mind, let us continue with Providentissimus Deus: 

      ‘14: His teaching [St Irenaeus] and that of other holy Fathers, is taken up by the Synod of the Vatican I, adopted the teaching of the Fathers, when, as it renewed the decree of Trent on the interpretations of the divine Word, it declared this to be its mind, that “in matters of faith and morals, which pertain to the building up of Christian doctrine, that is to be held as the true sense of Holy Scripture which Mother Church has held and holds, whose prerogative it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of Scripture; and therefore, it is permitted to no one to interpret the Holy Scriptures against this sense, or even against the unanimous agreement of the Fathers.” By this very wise law the Church by no means retards or blocks the investigations of Biblical science, but rather keeps it free of error, and aids it very much in true progress   

    Now let us look back at one of the reasons why a Biblical heliocentrism was defined as formal heresy:
    (1) “That the sun is in the centre of the world and altogether immovable by local movement,” was unanimously declared to be “foolish, philosophically absurd, and formally heretical [denial of a revelation by God] inasmuch as it expressly contradicts the declarations of Holy Scripture in many passages, according to the proper meaning of the language used, and the sense in which they have been expounded and understood by [all] the Fathers and theologians.”

    Providentissimus deus continues: ‘18. In the second place, we have to contend against those who, making an evil use of physical science, minutely scrutinize the Sacred Book in order to detect the writers in a mistake, and to take occasion to vilify its contents. Attacks of this kind, bearing as they do on matters of sensible experience, are peculiarly dangerous to the masses, and also to the young who are beginning their literary studies; for the young, if they lose their reverence for the Holy Scripture on one or more points, are easily led to give up believing in it altogether...

    Now while Pope Leo XIII above was explicitly pointing out the danger of ‘an evil use of physical science’ to change the revelations of Scripture, little did he know the damage was already done when previous popes (the elect) had fallen into the trap of false science in 1820 when Pius VII gave the thumbs up to a heliocentric reading of the Bible. Knowledge of the natural sciences, says the encyclical, will be a great help to ‘refute fallacious arguments of the kind drawn up against the Scriptures.’ True again, provided of course the science is true. Yes, all said in this guide so far is wonderful, and anyone reading this encyclical could expect corrections would follow now that the Airy and M&M science tests demonstrated geocentrism was never falsified. Alas, the opposite followed:

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #34 on: April 30, 2023, 09:03:20 AM »
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  • ‘18: To understand how just is the rule here formulated we must remember, first, that the sacred writers, or to speak more accurately, the Holy Ghost “Who spoke by them, did not intend to teach men these things (that is to say, the essential nature of the things of the visible universe), things in no way profitable unto salvation” (St Augustine). Hence, they did not seek to penetrate the secrets of nature, but rather described and dealt with things in more or less figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time, and which in many instances are in daily use at this day [‘sunrise’ and ‘sunset’?], even by the most eminent men of science. Ordinary speech primarily and properly describes what comes under the senses; and somewhat in the same way the sacred writers, as the Angelic Doctor also reminds us, “went by what sensibly appeared,” or put down what God, speaking to men, signified, in the way men could understand and were accustomed to.’--- Providentissimus Deus.

    St Augustine’s ‘essential nature of the visible universe,’ is best described as the immaterial quality that defines something as the kind of thing it is; like the Holy Ghost did not intend to teach us things like universal gravity, how such motions are caused, or the mathematical dimensions of the universe. A Biblical geocentric revelation however, was profitable for salvation as St Thomas Aquinas demonstrated when developing the Sacred Doctrine of Geocentrism, in his Summa Theologica? Didn’t the Lord Himself also say:

    If I have“ told you earthly things, and ye believe not,
    how shall ye believe if I tell you of heavenly things?” (John 3:12).

    ‘Since Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Providentissimus Deus (1893), Catholic exegetes have abandoned the idea that the Bible is meant to teach science, adding this principle to the age-old Catholic principle that the Bible must be reconciled with science, at least with settled science. Pope Leo explicitly states that Sacred Scripture speaks in a popular language that describes physical things as they appear to the senses, and so does not describe them with scientific exactitude. The Fathers of the Church were mistaken in some of their opinions about questions of science. Catholics are only obliged to follow the opinion of the Fathers when they were unanimous on questions of faith and morals, where they did not err, and not on questions of science, where they sometimes erred.’--- Fr Paul Robinson, SSPX.


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #35 on: April 30, 2023, 09:06:09 AM »
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  • History records Providentissimus Deus failed to stop the ‘rationalists’ from using scientific theories to give modernist meanings to the Bible and Catholic faith, but actually gave approval to such changes under the guise of ‘Church teaching.’ Proof of this is found in the following quotes over the last 120 years.

    ‘Similarly, “the sun stood still,” like our “the sun rises,” is a popular method of speaking, and involves the fact that in some way or another God Almighty did prolong the hours of light in the case of Joshua; They were men of their own time and not in front of it, and they fell into the errors natural to what figured in those days of science. But we should be careful to make use of the better guidance which we have obtained in such utterances as the “Providentissimus Deus” and avoid the mistakes which we can see our predecessors have made and which, indeed, it would have been exceedingly difficult for them to have avoided.’ (Sir Bertram Windle: The Church and Science, Catholic Truth Society, 1920, p.81.)

    ‘Anyone who will compare this [Galileo’s] wonderful letter with the encyclical Providentissimus Deus of Pope Leo XIII on the study of Holy Scripture will see how near in many places Galileo came to the very words of the Holy Father.’ (James Brodrick, S.J: The life of Cardinal Bellarmine, Burns Oats, 1928, p.351.)

    ‘But Bellarmine erred in its application, for the theological principles with which Galileo supported his system were merely those afterwards officially adopted and taught us by Pope Leo XIII in his encyclical, Providentissimus Deus.’ (E. C Messenger: Evolution and Theology, Burns, Oats and Washbourne, 1931.)

    ‘A century ago (1893), Pope Leo XIII echoed this [Galileo’s] advice in his encyclical Providentissimus Deus.’--- (Pope John Paul II: Address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences when presenting the findings of the 1981-1992 Galileo Commission.)

    ‘Actually, almost 100 years before Pope John Paul II’s apology, an earlier Pope (Leo XIII) effectively reinstated Galileo in an encyclical dealing with how Catholics should study the Bible…. “In 1893, Pope Leo XIII made honorable amends to Galileo’s memory by basing his encyclical Providentissimus Deus on the principles of exegesis that Galileo had expounded.”’ (D. A. Crombie’s ‘A History of Science from Augustine to Galileo,’ Vol. 2, 1996, p.225)

    ‘Galileo’s principle has apparently become the official hermeneutic criterion of the Catholic Church. It is alluded to in the Encyclical Providentissimus Deus by Pope Leo (1893), referred to in Guadium et Spes of the Vatican Council II (1965).’ (The Cambridge Companion to Galileo, 1998, p.367.)

    ‘On the other hand, Galileo was right about heliocentricism. Moreover, some of his theological wanderings eventually found themselves mirrored in several papal encyclicals of the last two centuries. Providentissimus Deus by Pope Leo XIII and Humani Generis by Pope Pius XII, for instance, both have pieces that could have been extracted from Galileo’s Letters to the Grand Duchess Christina… Galileo seems to have won out both on theological as well as scientific grounds…’ (J. T. Winschel: Galileo, Victim or Villain, The Angelus, Oct. 2003, p.38.)

    ‘Galileo’s views on the interpretation of scripture were fundamentally derived from St Augustine. Galileo’s views, expounded in the Letter to Castelli and his Letter to Christina and elsewhere, are in fact close to those expounded three centuries later by Pope Leo XIII, who in his encyclical on the divine inspiration of Holy Scripture [Providentissimus Deus], declared….’ (Cardinal Cathal Daly: The Minding of Planet Earth, Veritas, 2004, p.68.)

    ‘A sort of climax of the hermeneutical aspect of the Galileo affair occurred in 1893 with Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical letter Providentissimus Deus, for this docuмent put forth a view of the relationship between Biblical interpretation and scientific investigation that corresponded to the one advanced by Galileo in his letters to Castelli and Christina.’ (M. A. Finocchiaro: Retrying Galileo, 2007, p.264.)

    ‘Galileo addressed this problem in his famous Letter to Castelli. In its approach to Biblical exegesis, the letter ironically anticipates Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Providentissimus Deus (1893), which pointed out that Scripture often makes use of figurative language and is not meant to teach science. Galileo accepted the inerrancy of Scripture; but he was also mindful of Cardinal Baronius’s quip that the Bible “is intended to teach us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go.”’ (Catholics United for the Faith – what the Catholic Church teaches, 2010.)

    ‘The Society of Saint Pius X holds no such position [Biblical geocentrism]. The Church’s magisterium teaches that Catholics should not use Sacred Scripture to assert explanations about natural science, but may in good conscience hold to any particular cosmic theory. Providentissimus Deus also states that Scripture does not give scientific explanations and many of its texts use “figurative language” or expressions “commonly used at the time”, still used today “even by the most eminent men of science” (like the word “sunrise”)’--- SSPX press release, 30/8/2011.

    ‘When Pope Leo XIII wrote on the importance of science and reason, he essentially embraced the philosophical principles put forth by Galileo, and many statements by Popes and the Church over the years have expressed admiration for Galileo. For example, Galileo was specifically singled out for praise by Pope Pius XII in his address to the International Astronomical Union in 1952.’ (Vatican Observatory website 2013.)

    ‘To excite Catholic students to rival non-Catholics in the study of the Scriptures, and at the same time guide their studies, Pope Leo XIII in 1893 published “Providentissimus Deus,” which won the admiration even of Protestants.’ (New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia: Largest Catholic website in the world, 2013.)

    Having stated when all the Father agree on a reading of Scripture, Pope Leo then goes along with a rejection of a reading of all the Fathers. This concession to Galileo's heretical heliocentrism has popes contradicting themselves and each other. And that is how the Catholic Church has ended up where it is today.

    ‘… The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are. We cannot but deplore certain attitudes (not unknown among Christians) deriving from a short-sighted view of the rightful autonomy of science; they have occasioned conflict and controversy and have misled many into opposing faith and science.’---VATICAN II  Gaudium et spes, # 36.

    Offline Always

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #36 on: May 03, 2023, 07:13:55 PM »
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  • Thank you very much cassini.  Your posts here are magnificent.  Let the truth shine forth in all its beauty and glory.

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #37 on: May 03, 2023, 08:40:38 PM »
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  • It never ceases to amaze me how many people think that they are Il Papa...:fryingpan:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline rum

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #38 on: May 04, 2023, 09:37:22 AM »
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  • Fr. Feeney wasn't a fan of Newman, as the following shows:

    Fr. Feeney's The Point newsletter, October 1952:


    Quote
    The Point newsletter, October 1952:

    BY FATHER FEENEY

    John Henry Newman was constantly praised for the clarity of his English prose and the limpid lucidity of his style. That he possesses these qualities, no one can deny. But his is the cold clarity of clear water in a fish bowl, in which one looks in vain for the fish.

    The more you read Newman, the less you remember what he says. He is an author whom it is impossible to quote. What you recall, after you have finished reading him, is never what the clarity of his style was revealing, but some small, unwarranted queerness that it was almost concealing. You remember that Newman said that a chandelier “depends” from a ceiling; and if you look up “depends” in the dictionary, you will find that “hangs from” is exactly what it means. You remember that Newman felt entitled to mispronounce deliberately one English word to show his proprietorship over the language. He pronounced “soldier” as sol—dee—err. You remember that Newman was perpetually fussing about Reverend E. B. Pusey, who seems, in some refined way, to have gotten under his skin.

    You remember Newman was shocked that Catholics were giving Protestants the grounds for declaring that “the honor of Our Lady is dearer to Catholics than the conversion of England,” as though anything else could be the childlike truth. You remember that Newman particularly disliked the Marian writings of St. Alfonso Liguori, a Doctor of the Universal Church, and said of these writings, “They are suitable for Italy, but they are not suitable for England.” You remember that, with regard to the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Newman insisted, in scholarly fashion, that “her case is essentially the same as St. John the Baptist, save for a difference of six months” — which is precisely the difference this dogma demands. You remember that, though Newman was in favor of Papal Infallibility, he was not in favor of its being infallibly defined by the Pope.
    (from London is a Place, The Ravengate Press, Boston)




    https://fatherfeeney.wordpress.com/2009/08/22/the-point-october-1952/

    Fr. Feeney's The Point newsletter, October 1953:


    Quote
    The Newman Clubs

    Amid the ordered barbarism which the late Dr. Roosevelt was wont to call “our American way of life,” there is established a pattern which may be identified by the name of “our club culture.” For the levels of American sociability lend themselves admirably to a breakdown by “clubs” — beginning at the top with the polo club, the yacht club, the country club, descending through the women’s club, the bridge club, the Lions Club, and terminating inelegantly at “Mike’s Club — Beer Ten Cents a Glass.”

    Distributed up and down this vertical hierarchy (generously in the middle, sparsely at either end) are the subsidiary clubs — aggregations of button collectors, bird watchers, and the offspring of American Revolutionaries. With pompous Mesdames President and dutiful sub-chairmen, the members of the clubs sustain themselves in that one interest which provides their common unity — to wit, bizarre buttons, odd birds, or rabble-rousing ancestors.

    In the midst of these lesser gatherings, and willing to be taken for one of them, is the Newman Club Federation, that appraisal of the Catholic Faith as “something to have a doubt about.”

    Newman Clubs are now about fifty years old. Their members are those tragically misplaced persons, Catholic students at non-Catholic colleges. And their very name, Newman, gives them away.

    It was the spirit of Newman’s writings, quite as much as his over-esteemed clarity, which made him so fit the purposes of American Catholics at non-Catholic colleges. For in everything that Newman said in print, after he rationalized his way into the Church, there is a clear determination to dissociate himself from all that he considered vulgar (that is, not English) in his new-found religion. He felt, for example, that devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary was being carried too far, and that the infallibility of the Pope was something to keep quiet about!

    As they started off, the Newman Clubs selected John Henry Cardinal Newman as their patron for many reasons, one of which was their certainty that he would never embarrass them by getting canonized and turning into a patron-saint. Newman, they decided, was an eminently acceptable variety of Catholic to bring to the attention of our secular universities. To begin with, he was not a noisy Irish-American Catholic, but an ex-Anglican English one. And he was not only literate, he was even literary.

    The establishers of the Newman Clubs must have realized, however, that in importing his spirit, much of Newman’s Oxford refinement and Anglican propriety would be lost in transit. For when it is found on a Midwestern university campus, clad in blue-jeans at a Newman Club weenie roast, the spirit of John Henry Cardinal Newman as stripped of all but its most basic elements: compromise of and apology for the Faith.

    The Newman Club maintains that a Catholic student can “stick it out” at a secular college and preserve his Faith by means of weekly teas, monthly dances and an occasional festive breakfast, preceded by a hasty Holy Communion. In fact, Newman Club bulletins point proudly to recent surveys which report that although the percentage of Catholic students who leave the Faith at secular colleges is very high, the number is considerably lower among those students who are Newman Clubbers.

    The Newman policy is blithely and blindly to assume that the student who does not openly break with the Faith must therefore still have it. And this policy explains the Newman Club alumni, those secularly-educated thousands who are, in name, Catholic, but who are, in sympathy, outlook, judgment, appreciation, manner, in their very impulse, non-Catholic, and what is worse, unconcerned that this is the case.

    The declared purpose of the Newman Club movement is, “the religious, intellectual, and social betterment of its members.” Understood, is the qualification, “provided such betterment in no way interferes with that primary consideration, the Catholic student’s acquisition of a secular college degree.” Thus, the effectiveness of a Newman Club as a secular college is the effectiveness of the boy who held his finger in the leaking dike, hoping to keep back the flood which was pouring in over the top.

    Our necessary conclusion? We prefer degree-less Catholics to drowned ones.


    https://fatherfeeney.wordpress.com/2009/08/22/the-point-october-1953/

    Fr. Feeney's The Point newsletter, December 1954:


    Quote
    THE PRESENT POSITION OF CARDINAL NEWMAN

    Q. What is it about John Henry Newman, English convert and Cardinal, that Catholics chiefly remember?

    A. His mastery of English prose.

    Q. What is it about John Henry Newman that Catholics of our day generally forget?

    A. They forget, or never have been told of, his Jєωιѕн descent.

    Q. If we Catholics were to bear in mind Newman’s real ancestry when we are appraising his literary ability, could we not then boast that we have had in our fold the greatest Jєωιѕн writer in the English language?

    A. We could — except for the fact that there have been in the English language other Jєωιѕн writers, like Robert Browning, Max Beerbohm, and Philip Guedalla, who never once thought of joining the Catholic Church.

    Q. Apart from his literary abilities, did not Newman make a good conversion to the Catholic Church?

    A. He made a nostalgic conversion.

    Q. What sort of conversion is that?

    A. It is a conversion effected in a typical Old Testament manner, in which one is always sighing after the “flesh-pots” of things one has abandoned, and which in Newman’s case required an Apologia Pro Vita Sua, an apology for his own life, to justify.

    Q. After his conversion, and his ordination to the priesthood, is it really true that Newman used often to forego theological studies and pastoral pursuits in order to devote more time to reading from the pagan Greeks?

    A. Biographers disagree. Newman’s only comment in the matter was his repeated remark, “I shall never be a saint, for I love the pagan classics too intensely.”

    Q. Did not the blood which he inherited, from the Jєωιѕн moneylender who was his father, allow Newman to bring to the Faith some of those same racial qualities possessed by the very earliest Christians, by Our Lord’s own Apostles and disciples?

    A. The Jєωιѕн qualities which Newman brought to the Faith have been very tidily set in order by Canon William Barry, S. T. D., the eminent English authority on Newman. Canon Barry reports that to Newman’s “Hebrew affinities” the following qualities are attributed: “ … his cast of features, his remarkable skill in music and mathematics, his dislike of metaphysical speculations, his grasp of the concrete, and his nervous temperament.”

    Q. What was it that Newman called those fellow Catholics of his who, at the time of the Vatican Council, were in favor of having the Pope’s personal infallibility defined?

    A. Newman nervously called them, “an aggressive and insolent faction.”

    Q. Was this attitude toward the definition of Papal infallibility the reason why Pope Pius IX so totally mistrusted Newman?

    A. It was one of the reasons.

    Q. If Pope Pius IX so frowned upon him, why was Newman made a Cardinal?

    A. Newman was made a Cardinal after Pope Pius IX died, when the Catholic Duke of Norfolk prevailed upon the newly installed Leo XIII to brighten the aged Newman’s final years with a red hat.

    Q. Is it in England that Cardinal Newman’s spirit best survives today?

    A. It is not. Modern Catholic Englishmen, without analyzing it, sense that Cardinal Newman was, religiously, the kind of interloper in their midst that Prime Minister Disraeli was politically.

    Q. Where then have Newman’s name and fame been most perpetuated?

    A. In America, in the form of clubs. Newman Clubs, they are called.

    Q. What is a Newman Club?

    A. It is an organized excuse for the presence, the sinful presence, of Catholic students at secular universities founded and fostered by Masons and, lately, indoctrinated by Jews.


    https://fatherfeeney.wordpress.com/2009/08/22/the-point-december-1954/

    There's also another brief mention of the "Newman Clubs" in the May 1955 issue of The Point:


    Quote
    This propensity for Judaizing young Gentiles was one of Dr. Sachar’s principal recommendations for the Brandeis presidency. The other was a repeated declaration, following necessarily from his Zionist loyalty, that America is not a “melting pot,” and that Jews must not only stick to being Jews, they must even rejoice in their Jєωιѕнness.

    In order to attract Gentile students, for processing under his experienced direction, Dr. Sachar has allowed a Newman Club and a Student Christian Association to take their places beside Brandeis University’s lively Hillel chapter. Profoundly touched by the limitless opportunities thus afforded him, Dr. Sachar has resolved upon a rededication of himself to the spirit and ideals of that Rabbi Hillel for whom the Hillel movement was named — the rabbi who, until his death in 10 A.D., was head of the Jerusalem sanhedrin and who was, as such, the chief promoter of King Herod’s “slaughter of the Holy Innocents,” the first of the Jєωιѕн attempts to get rid of Jesus.


    https://fatherfeeney.wordpress.com/2009/08/22/the-point-may-1955/
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #39 on: May 04, 2023, 11:06:56 AM »
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  • Fr. Feeney wasn't a fan of Newman, as the following shows:

    Fr. Feeney's The Point newsletter, October 1952:

    The Point newsletter, October 1952:

    BY FATHER FEENEY

    John Henry Newman was constantly praised for the clarity of his English prose and the limpid lucidity of his style. That he possesses these qualities, no one can deny. But his is the cold clarity of clear water in a fish bowl, in which one looks in vain for the fish.

    The more you read Newman, the less you remember what he says. He is an author whom it is impossible to quote. What you recall, after you have finished reading him, is never what the clarity of his style was revealing, but some small, unwarranted queerness that it was almost concealing. You remember that Newman said that a chandelier “depends” from a ceiling; and if you look up “depends” in the dictionary, you will find that “hangs from” is exactly what it means. You remember that Newman felt entitled to mispronounce deliberately one English word to show his proprietorship over the language. He pronounced “soldier” as sol—dee—err. You remember that Newman was perpetually fussing about Reverend E. B. Pusey, who seems, in some refined way, to have gotten under his skin.

    You remember Newman was shocked that Catholics were giving Protestants the grounds for declaring that “the honor of Our Lady is dearer to Catholics than the conversion of England,” as though anything else could be the childlike truth. You remember that Newman particularly disliked the Marian writings of St. Alfonso Liguori, a Doctor of the Universal Church, and said of these writings, “They are suitable for Italy, but they are not suitable for England.” You remember that, with regard to the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Newman insisted, in scholarly fashion, that “her case is essentially the same as St. John the Baptist, save for a difference of six months” — which is precisely the difference this dogma demands. You remember that, though Newman was in favor of Papal Infallibility, he was not in favor of its being infallibly defined by the Pope.
    (from London is a Place, The Ravengate Press, Boston)

    After reading this, those with eyes to see... can appreciate the power of Father Feeney's Catholic intellect.

    Being of Irish descent, he was intuitively
    suspicious of any monied, Anglican, Brit-jew convert.  

    And as our British Bishop Williamson would say, "Naturally!"



    In the BBC's propaganda efforts to help manufacture the Newman-saint, they gave us a glimpse of Card. Newman's production room study.
    His library was extensive, even today they have yet to complete
    the categorization of his writings and collections.

    His study didn't
    so much represent the study of an intellectual, holy man seeking the truth, but of a man with an agenda.
    Surely, Newman and his assistants could cut & paste Catholic writings to imitate the Faith, but in his high office, he was positioned to undermine the Church. 

    The fact that Bl. Pope Pius IX didn't trust him should be
    good enough for trads.
    But if Sean Johnson, truly thinks Newman is a saint, perhaps Matthew should organize and monitor a forum debate on the topic?



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #40 on: May 04, 2023, 11:12:08 AM »
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  • Newman wrote: 
    Protestantism is a dismal evil; but in this respect Providence has overruled it for the good. It has, by allowing free inquiry in science, destroyed a bugbear, and thereby saved Catholics so far from the misery of hollow profession and secret infidelity….' (Fr John Henry Newman, 1861.

    Here God used Protestantism to bring out the truth of Biblical heliocentrism that saved the Catholic Church from having to hold to its 1616 and 1633 decrees on a formal heresy.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #41 on: May 04, 2023, 11:12:18 AM »
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  • Fr. Feeney wasn't a fan of Newman, as the following shows:

    Fr. Feeney's The Point newsletter, October 1952:

    Msgr. Fenton didn't care for him either.  And Cardinal Manning couldn't stand him.  About a half dozen bishops in Great Britain denounced him to Rome for being suspect of Modernistm and heresy.

    Newman agitated against papal infallibility and only accepted it later under his notion that a future pope would "correct" the Church's understanding of infallibility as defined at Vatican I.  That's clearly a quintissentially Modernist viewpoint.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #42 on: May 04, 2023, 11:15:26 AM »
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  • Father Feeney (cited above):

    Quote
    The more you read Newman, the less you remember what he says. He is an author whom it is impossible to quote. What you recall, after you have finished reading him, is never what the clarity of his style was revealing, but some small, unwarranted queerness that it was almost concealing.

    hmmmm

    This is true, though.  I've read Newman and he rambles without saying anything of substance.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #43 on: May 04, 2023, 11:18:03 AM »
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  • Newman wrote:
    Protestantism is a dismal evil; but in this respect Providence has overruled it for the good. It has, by allowing free inquiry in science, destroyed a bugbear, and thereby saved Catholics so far from the misery of hollow profession and secret infidelity….' (Fr John Henry Newman, 1861.

    Here God used Protestantism to bring out the truth of Biblical heliocentrism that saved the Catholic Church from having to hold to its 1616 and 1633 decrees on a formal heresy.

    You might want to review the conclusion of the CE, which I posted here, and nuance your opinion a bit:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/correcting-fr-paul-robinson's-catholic-faith-and-science/msg882418/?topicseen#msg882418
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #44 on: May 04, 2023, 11:21:36 AM »
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  • Hmmm.  He strongly resembles Michael Voris here.