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Author Topic: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist  (Read 9903 times)

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Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #95 on: May 15, 2023, 01:31:36 PM »
  To be fair to the saintly pontiff, Pius X, if he had read the works of Newman himself, he would have no need to the defer to the letter written by the Bishop of Limerick.  Most popes are too busy writing encyclicals, writing their own tomes, than to busy themselves with reviewing the literature of others.  My guess is that Pope St. Pius X endorsed Newman on account of his "English convert" status, as well as his voluminous authorship.  Most popes rely upon the theologians around them to critique the theological writings which are of questionable orthodoxy, and this is understandable given the various responsibilities to which the pope is subject. 

We all know that the modernists were thick in the church even before Cardinal Sarto entered the papal office; in fact, the freemasons in Rome cheered when Giovanni Mastai-Ferretti was elected in 1846, as Pius IX.  Thankfully he proved to be their enemy, but it cannot be doubted that the spirit of modernism was prevalent even under the orthodox popes of the nineteenth century. 

Perhaps without realizing it, your post is tantamount to accusing St. Pius X of irresponsibility, dereliction of duty, negligence, and according to the opinions of some here, being an unwitting dupe of modernism, and working against himself by promoting modernism.

No, I think there was sufficient controversy surrounding Newman for the pope to have done his due diligence, investigated the arguments of the Irish bishop, and concurred.

If someone wants to argue otherwise, the onus is upon them to provide the proof.

I would also be remiss in failing to note the irony of Newman’s CI critics being guilty of the very thing they have the temerity to accuse St. Pius X of (ie., relying on the opinions of others without having ever read Newman themselves).

Offline rum

Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #96 on: May 15, 2023, 01:46:33 PM »
LETTER
In which Pope Pius X approves the work of the Bishop of Limerick

on the writings of Cardinal Newman.

To his Venerable Brother

Edward Thomas Bishop of Limerick


For, if in the things he had written before his profession of the Catholic faith one can justly detect something which may have a kind of similarity with certain Modernist formulas, you are correct in saying that this is not relevant to his later works.



Truly, there is something about such a large quantity of work and his long hours of labour lasting far into the night that seems foreign to the usual way of theologians: nothing can be found to bring any suspicion about his faith. You correctly state that it is entirely to be expected that where no new signs of heresy were apparent he has perhaps used an off-guard manner of speaking to some people in certain places, but that what the Modernists do is to falsely and deceitfully take those words out of the whole context of what he meant to say and twist them to suit their own meaning. =

I subtracted these two parts from the letter. Again, I object to the categories "modernist" and "anti-modernist." It resembles the fake categories today of "left" and "right".

The categories should be anti-тαℓмυdic, dupe of тαℓмυdists, and ally of тαℓмυdists.

These should be the categories.


Offline rum

Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #97 on: May 15, 2023, 01:49:00 PM »
Case Closed... :incense:
Case isn't closed. Maybe smoke another doobie . . . .

Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #98 on: May 15, 2023, 02:05:15 PM »
I subtracted these two parts from the letter. Again, I object to the categories "modernist" and "anti-modernist." It resembles the fake categories today of "left" and "right".

The categories should be anti-тαℓмυdic, dupe of тαℓмυdists, and ally of тαℓмυdists.

These should be the categories.

What’s interesting to me about the two paragraphs you excerpted from Pope St. Pius’s endorsement, is that they both seem to evince an intimate and personal knowledge of the Cardinal’s works (ie., exactly the opposite ow what some here are suggesting).

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #99 on: May 15, 2023, 03:03:29 PM »

Quote
Perhaps without realizing it, your post is tantamount to accusing St. Pius X of irresponsibility, dereliction of duty, negligence, and according to the opinions of some here, being an unwitting dupe of modernism, and working against himself by promoting modernism.
:facepalm:


Quote
No, I think there was sufficient controversy surrounding Newman for the pope to have done his due diligence, investigated the arguments of the Irish bishop, and concurred.
Thank you for admitting that Pope St Pius X (and any pope, for that matter) does not have time to read everything from a single theologian and has to "trust" (key word) the analysis of someone else (i.e. Irish Bishop).  Thus, it's very possible for a pope's trust to be misplaced and to be (indirectly) wrong.


This happened a lot in the case of St Pius X, who admitted later in his papacy that he was "surrounded by wolves".  His "endorsement" of +Newman, via the Irish Bishop, was made in 1908, which was only 5 years into his papacy.