Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist  (Read 9921 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #85 on: May 13, 2023, 10:01:02 AM »
Project much?  :laugh1:

What part of what I wrote was not correct?  You started your praise of Newman not because of any "anti-Modernist" statements he allegedly made but because of his suspended Magisterium theory.

I suppose that Monsignor Fenton was "mentally ill" also, and so was Cardinal Manning.

No, they weren’t flat earth Catharinian pope deposing Feeneyite internal forum reading schismatics.

That unique combo is reserved to you alone.

You're simply vomiting your suspicions as though they were true (as you often do), because that’s what you need them to be for your argument.

Of course, you sin rashly in doing so, but I realize sin takes a back seat for the narcissist.

That I also agree with Newman’s historically factual account of the temporary suspension of the Ecclesia docens is irrelevant to the fact that I also find in him the prototypical antimodernist principles which St. Pius X vindicated, and Brownson later accepted.

Offline rum

Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #86 on: May 13, 2023, 10:38:31 AM »
Maybe Sean Johnson overestimates Newman, Brownson, and St. Pius X.

I remember St. Thomas Aquinas' view of his own prodigious output:

https://www.catholic.com/qa/when-st-thomas-aquinas-likened-his-work-to-straw-was-that-a-retraction-of-what-he-wrote


Quote
Question:
When St. Thomas Aquinas likened his work to straw, was that a retraction of what he wrote?

Answer:
In the Thurston and Attwater revision of Alban Butler’s Lives of the Saints, the episode is described this way:

Quote
On the feast of St. Nicholas [in 1273, Aquinas] was celebrating Mass when he received a revelation that so affected him that he wrote and dictated no more, leaving his great work the Summa Theologiae unfinished. To Brother Reginald’s (his secretary and friend) expostulations he replied, “The end of my labors has come. All that I have written appears to be as so much straw after the things that have been revealed to me.” When later asked by Reginald to return to writing, Aquinas said, “I can write no more. I have seen things that make my writings like straw.” (www.catholic-forum.com/saintS/stt03002.htm)
Aquinas died three months later while on his way to the ecuмenical council of Lyons.

Aquinas’s vision may have been a vision of heaven, compared to which everything else, no matter how glorious, seems worthless. We can only speculate on that point. Scholars, hagiographers, and Catholics in general have never understood Aquinas’s comment to be a retraction or refutation of anything he wrote. If it had been, Pope Leo XIII would not have encouraged a renewed interest in Thomistic theology and philosophy, and Aquinas would not have been named a Doctor of the Church.

It is also reported that Aquinas had another mystical experience in which the voice of Christ said to him, “You have written well of me, Thomas” (www2.nd.edu/Departments//Maritain/etext/thomas1.htm).



As I said earlier what is going on with these coy categories "anti-modernist" and "modernist". Why aren't the prevailing categories "enemy of тαℓмυdists," "dupe of тαℓмυdists," and "allies of тαℓмυdists"?

Those are the three categories I use when sizing up people.


Offline OABrownson1876

  • Supporter
Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #87 on: May 14, 2023, 03:48:43 PM »
Just to be clear about Orestes Brownson's view of Newman, we quote what he said of Newman just one year prior to his death in 1876:

"A friend, in whose judgment we place great confidence, remarks to us that Dr. Newman does not appear to write in a thoroughly Catholic spirit; that even when his doctrine is orthodox, the animus, the spirit, is at least half-Anglican.  Dr. Newman is decidedly an Englishman, with most of the characteristics of Englishmen.  He seems to us to retain an affection for Anglicanism which we do not share...His Catholicity, which we do not doubt is very genuine, is something added to his Anglicanism, not something diverse or essentially different from it.  It is something more than Anglicanism, but not something different in kind.  In fact, we detect no radical change in the habits of his mind effected by his conversion; and his republication of his works written and published when he was still an Anglican, with only very meagre notes, would seem to indicate that in his own judgment none did take place."
  ("Newman's Reply to Gladstone, 1875" Brownson's Collected Works, vol. 13, p. 500)

  This is only one excerpt from Brownson on Newman, but it is very clear that, although some believe that Brownson "patched things up" with Newman in 1864, Brownson, up to the end of his days, held Newman to be suspect of an Anglican spirit.

And I trust Brownson's orthodoxy long before trusting Newman's.  In fact, Brownson defended the Immaculate Conception before its definition in 1854, Papal Infallibility before its definition in 1870, and he did an article on Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.  As a side note, Brownson defended the Immaculate Conception long before its formal definition, in lieu of the fact that notable theologians failed to defend it.  *Read Brownson's article on the Immaculate Conception. Immaculate Conception

Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #88 on: May 15, 2023, 09:29:15 AM »
So was Pope St. Pius X.

Was he a judaizer too?

Your use of associations are typically sophomoric.



Before he was a Saint, was Pope Pius X comfortable with Cardinal Rampolla?

Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #89 on: May 15, 2023, 09:37:40 AM »
Sean loves Newman now on account of his SVDS (Sedevavantist Derangement Syndrome) because he finds material in Newman that supports R&R.  But then you can find support for R&R in the works of any Modernist. 


That too... but in previous posts Sean alluded to being very influenced by the Newman's writings during his SSPX seminary days.

And because Denzinger published Newman's works and the SSPX endorsed it, the jew Cardinal just had to be Kosher.

It goes to show the power (and the danger) that seminary education has in forming young minds.