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Author Topic: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist  (Read 6646 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
« Reply #105 on: May 15, 2023, 05:09:32 PM »
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  • Yeah, Pius IX was quasi-modernist in his first years.  Then he had a 'wake up' call. 

    Complete falsehood.

    He showed some liberal tendencies PRIOR to his papacy, which gave the Masons some hope, but he confounded them, and was solid as pope from the beginning.

    Already in 1846 (his first year) he had condemned practically every liberal philosophy with Qui Pluribus:

    Qui pluribus (subtitled "On Faith And Religion") is an encyclical promulgated by Pope Pius IX on November 9, 1846. It was the first encyclical of his reign, and written to urge the prelates to be on guard against the dangers posed by rationalism, pantheism, socialism, communism and other popular philosophies.”

    By that point, he’d barely been pope 5 months.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #106 on: May 16, 2023, 01:43:30 PM »
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  • Oh, the pope was strong on some points, but he was not immune from liberalism.  The following conversation is between Pius IX and Odo Russell, the Protestant English representative:

    "'There is no salvation outside the Roman Church, yet I, the pope, do think that some Protestants may by the special grace of God be saved.' He told the Protestant English representative Odo Russell.  But he quickly added, 'I mean those Protestants who by peculiar circuмstances have never been in a position to know Truth.  For those who, like yourself, have lived at the very fountain of Truth, and have not recognized and accepted it, there can be no salvation'."
          (Pio Nono and the Jєωs: From "Reform" to "Reaction," 1846-1878, Frank Coppa)

    While I applaud the pope for telling Odo that not recognizing the "fountain of truth" is the equivalent of damnation, he should have specified that the "special grace" whereby Protestants are saved is the grace to come into the Catholic Church.  Claiming that a person was "never in a position to know the Truth" smacks of being a liberal statement on its face.
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    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #107 on: May 16, 2023, 03:19:30 PM »
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  • Oh, the pope was strong on some points, but he was not immune from liberalism.  The following conversation is between Pius IX and Odo Russell, the Protestant English representative:

    "'There is no salvation outside the Roman Church, yet I, the pope, do think that some Protestants may by the special grace of God be saved.' He told the Protestant English representative Odo Russell.  But he quickly added, 'I mean those Protestants who by peculiar circuмstances have never been in a position to know Truth.  For those who, like yourself, have lived at the very fountain of Truth, and have not recognized and accepted it, there can be no salvation'."
          (Pio Nono and the Jєωs: From "Reform" to "Reaction," 1846-1878, Frank Coppa)

    While I applaud the pope for telling Odo that not recognizing the "fountain of truth" is the equivalent of damnation, he should have specified that the "special grace" whereby Protestants are saved is the grace to come into the Catholic Church.  Claiming that a person was "never in a position to know the Truth" smacks of being a liberal statement on its face.
    This is as obvious a fabrication as it gets. Pius IX condemned the "most grave error" that those who are separated from Catholic unity can achieve salavtion many times.

    If you believe books like these you'll be right at home with Fr. Peregrino's book which claims padre Pio gave him absolution even though he knew he wasn't against abortion.

    Or how about that one time St. Pius X said God has his own theology and prayed for dead jews? Found in his most popular biography.

    Give me a break. You should be ashamed of accusing Pius IX of such disgusting heresy.

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #108 on: May 16, 2023, 03:42:52 PM »
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  • Pius IX, On Promotion of False Doctrines, 1863

    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanto.htm




    Quote
    7. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.

    19.

    (. . .)

    Let us pray that the errant be flooded with the light of his divine grace, may turn back from the path of error into the way of truth and justice and, experiencing the worthy fruit of repentance, may possess perpetual love and fear of his holy name.






    Leo XIII, On Mission Societies, 1880

    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/leo13/l13mis.htm




    Quote
    6.

    (. . .)

    Do men like these pour forth their prayers to God that in His mercy he may bring to the Divine light of the Gospel by His victorious grace the people sitting in the darkness?




    Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos, 1832

    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/greg16/g16mirar.htm





    Quote
    13. Now We consider another abundant source of the evils with which the Church is afflicted at present: indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained. Surely, in so clear a matter, you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care. With the admonition of the apostle that “there is one God, one faith, one baptism”[16] may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that “those who are not with Christ are against Him,”[17] and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore “without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate.”[18] Let them hear Jerome who, while the Church was torn into three parts by schism, tells us that whenever someone tried to persuade him to join his group he always exclaimed: “He who is for the See of Peter is for me.”[19] A schismatic flatters himself falsely if he asserts that he, too, has been washed in the waters of regeneration. Indeed Augustine would reply to such a man: “The branch has the same form when it has been cut off from the vine; but of what profit for it is the form, if it does not live from the root?”





    The life of Pope Pius IX and the great events in the history of the Church during his pontificate

    By John Gilmary Shea, published 1877

    pgs. 97 - 103

    https://archive.org/details/TheLifeOfPopePiusIX1877





    Quote
    In an allocution to the cardinals on the Consistory of the 17th of December, 1847, Pius IX. congratulated the sacred college on the renewal of a cordial understanding with Spain, by means of which he had been enabled to appoint a number of bishops in that country once so devoted  to the Church. He alluded too to the favorable appearance of the Catholic cause in Russia, and repudiated certain theories ascribed to him. Against religious indifferentism so zealously advocated in our days, and made as it were a state creed, he said : "It is assuredly not unknown to you, venerable brethren, that in our times many of the enemies of the Catholic faith especially direct their efforts toward placing every monstrous opinion on the same level with the doctrine of Christ, or of confounding it therewith, and so they try more and more to propagate that impious system of the indifference of religions.

    But quite recently, we shudder to say it, men have appeared who have thrown such reproaches upon our name and apostolic dignity, that they do not hesitate to slander us, as if we shared in their folly and favored the aforesaid most wicked system. From the measures, in no' wise incompatible with the sanctity of the  Catholic religion, which, in certain affairs relating to the civil government of the Pontifical States, we thought fit in kindness to adopt, as tending to the public advantage and prosperity, and from the amnesty graciously bestowed upon some of the subjects of the same States at the beginning of our pontificate, it appears that these men have desired to infer that we think so benevolently concerning every, class of mankind, as to suppose that not only the sons of the Church, but that the rest also, however alienated from Catholic unity they may remain, are alike in the way of salvation, and may arrive at everlasting life."

    We are at a loss from horror to find words to express our detestation of this new and atrocious injustice that is done us. We do indeed love all mankind with the inmost affection of our heart, yet not otherwise than in the love of God, and of our Lord Jesus Christ, who came to  seek and to save that which had perished, who died for all, who wills all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth ; who therefore sent his disciples into the whole world to preach the gospel to every creature, proclaiming that they who should believe and be baptized should be saved, but they who should believe not should be condemned ; who therefore will be saved let them come to the pillar and ground of faith, which is the Church; let them come to the true Church of Christ, which in its bishops and in the Roman Pontiff, the chief head of all, has the succession of apostolical authority, never at any time interrupted; which has never counted aught of greater moment than to preach and by all means to keep and defend the doctrine proclaim ed by the apostles, by Christ's command; which, from the apostles' time downward, has increased in the midst of difficulties of every kind ; and being illustrious through out the whole world by the splendor of miracles, multiplied by the blood of martyrs, exalted by the virtues of confessors and virgins, strengthened by the most wise testimonies of the fathers, hath flourished and doth flourish in all the regions of the earth, and shines refulgent in the perfect unity of the faith, of sacraments, and of holy discipline."



    Let me paraphrase the above excerpt:




    Quote
    Pius IX: Allocution to the cardinals on the Consistory of the 17th of December, 1847

    It is assuredly not unknown to you, venerable brethren, that in our times many of the enemies of the Catholic faith especially direct their efforts toward placing every monstrous opinion on the same level with the doctrine of Christ, or of confounding it therewith, and so they try more and more to propagate that impious system of the indifference of religions.

    But quite recently, we shudder to say it, men have appeared who have thrown such reproaches upon our name and apostolic dignity, that they do not hesitate to slander us, as if we shared in their folly and favored the aforesaid most wicked system.

    (. . .) as to suppose that not only the sons of the Church, but that the rest also, however alienated from Catholic unity they may remain, are alike in the way of salvation, and may arrive at everlasting life."

    We are at a loss from horror to find words to express our detestation of this new and atrocious injustice that is done us.



    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #109 on: May 16, 2023, 03:49:54 PM »
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  • Here's Pius IX rejecting the notorious heresy that Protestants can be saved.

    Pope Pius IX, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore (# 7), To Bishops of Italy, 1863: "Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching." 

    Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quidem, To Bishops of the Austrian Empire, March 17th, 1856: "[...] The Church clearly declares that the only hope of salvation for mankind is placed in the Christian faith, which teaches the truth, scatters the darkness of ignorance by the splendor of its light, and works through love. This hope of salvation is placed in the Catholic Church which, in preserving the true worship, is the solid home of this faith and the temple of God." 

    Pope Pius IX, Nostis et Nobiscuм (# 10), To Bishops of Italy, Dec. 8, 1849:In particular, ensure that the faithful are deeply and thoroughly convinced of the truth of the doctrine that the Catholic faith is necessary for attaining salvation. (This doctrine, received from Christ and emphasized by the Fathers and Councils, is also contained in the formulae of the profession of faith used by Latin, Greek and Oriental Catholics).” 

    Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quadem, 9 December 1854: "...let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic teaching, there is 'one God, one faith, one baptism' [Eph. 4:5]; it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry."

    Pope Pius IX, quoted by Fr. Michael Müller: "In his Encyclical Letters, dated Dec. 8, 1849; Dec.. 8, 1864; and Aug. 10, 1863, and in his Allocution on Dec. 9, 1854: Pope Pius IX. says: "It is not without sorrow that we have learned another not less pernicious error, which has been spread in several parts of Catholic countries, and has been imbibed by many Catholics, who are of opinion that all those who are not at all members of the true Church of Christ, can be saved: Hence they often discuss the question concerning the future fate and condition of those who die without having professed the Catholic faith, and give the most frivolous reasons in support of their wicked opinion . . . . .""

    In line with the constant teaching of the Church:

    Vatican Council I, Session II, Profession of Faith, January 6th, 1870: "This true Catholic faith, outside of which none can be saved, which I now freely profess and truly hold..."

    Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Profession of Faith, 1215: "There is indeed one Universal Church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, in which Jesus Christ is both priest and sacrifice."

    Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302: "Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: ‘One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,‘ and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.... Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."


    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Cardinal Newman was not a Modernist
    « Reply #110 on: May 16, 2023, 04:07:36 PM »
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  • Pius IX, On Promotion of False Doctrines, 1863

    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanto.htm


    Leo XIII, On Mission Societies, 1880

    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/leo13/l13mis.htm


    Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos, 1832

    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/greg16/g16mirar.htm


    The life of Pope Pius IX and the great events in the history of the Church during his pontificate

    By John Gilmary Shea, published 1877

    pgs. 97 - 103

    https://archive.org/details/TheLifeOfPopePiusIX1877
    Thank you very much! Added to my collection on Quanto conficiamur.