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Author Topic: Cardinal Muller Sides with St. Bellarmine  (Read 2946 times)

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Offline Yeti

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Re: Cardinal Muller Sides with St. Bellarmine
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2023, 04:38:22 PM »
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  • As an aside, a comment at Gloria.tv notes this article was taken down by LSN.  Are they placing the unity of the clans above their journalistic integrity?

    https://onepeterfive.com/pope-has-uttered-plenty-of-material-heresies-former-vatican-doctrinal-head/

    I only post Muller’s opinion to note the fact of differences of opinion between ecclesiastics on this matter (ie., a couple months ago, I quoted Journet as preferring Cajetan and JST.  Muller obviously has a different view ).
    .

    The opening paragraph:

    Quote
    In a new interview with LifeSite News, Cardinal Müller, the former head of the Holy Office said that Pope Francis “has already uttered plenty of material heresies,” but that since these are not formal heresies, Pope Francis has not lost his office. He affirmed the theory of St. Robert Bellarmine, whose opinion was that the pope would lose his office immediately upon becoming a formal heretic.

    This is typical of Novus Ordo conservatives. Just like political conservatives, their job is to protect and defend the left. So Mueller is defending Bergoglio here as well.

    And no, Mueller's opinion is not that of St. Robert Bellarmine. St. Robert would not say something so ridiculous as that Bergoglio is only a material heretic.

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Cardinal Muller Sides with St. Bellarmine
    « Reply #16 on: November 12, 2023, 05:00:38 PM »
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  • St. Robert would not say something so ridiculous as that Bergoglio is only a material heretic.
    On what basis do you say that?
    I must say, I get the impression that Pope Francis has the Faith but has chosen to serve the infernal master.
    Can a satanist have the Faith? Can a satanist be Pope?
    It is clear from the writings of St Robert that he believes it is up to a Council, even an imperfect one, to hold the Pope to account for errors in the Faith. Personally, I would not be surprised if such a Council failed to find him to be a formal heretic. I think he is very shrewd...


    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Cardinal Muller Sides with St. Bellarmine
    « Reply #17 on: November 14, 2023, 06:55:34 AM »
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  • On what basis do you say that?
    I must say, I get the impression that Pope Francis has the Faith but has chosen to serve the infernal master.
    Can a satanist have the Faith? Can a satanist be Pope?
    It is clear from the writings of St Robert that he believes it is up to a Council, even an imperfect one, to hold the Pope to account for errors in the Faith. Personally, I would not be surprised if such a Council failed to find him to be a formal heretic. I think he is very shrewd...

    You don't have to wait for a Council to declare what is staring you right in the face, that is, that Jorge Bergoglio is a public manifest formal heretic.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cardinal Muller Sides with St. Bellarmine
    « Reply #18 on: November 14, 2023, 07:33:17 AM »
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  • On what basis do you say that?
    I must say, I get the impression that Pope Francis has the Faith but has chosen to serve the infernal master.
    Can a satanist have the Faith? Can a satanist be Pope?

    Intending to subvert the faith is intrinsically incompatible with possessing supernatural faith.  Why?  Because supernatural faith is not merely an act of the intellect, but is a combined act of will and intellect.  Supernatural truths cannot be grasped by the intellect along, but the will moves the intellect to submit to the authority of God Revealing.  So someone who intends to subvert the Faith cannot have supernatural faith.

    So in theory it's possible for someone to believe 100% of what the Church teaches (the material faith) but not have the formal motive of faith, which requires believing these things based on submission of the will to the authority of God revealing through the Church.  I could even logically conclude that, yes, the Catholic Church is the True Church of Christ and that all of the Church's dogmas are true ... but refuse to make the submission of faith.

    To give an example, there was a Jew whom Bishop Williamson knew (and invited to speak at STAS) who basically told the bishop that he believed that Jesus Christ was/is the Messiah, that the Catholic Church is the True Church, and that what the Catholic Church teaches is true.  So he was asked why he didn't convert to become a Catholic.  His answer was, "Because I don't have the faith."  This man had intellectually concluded the truth of the Catholic Church, and yet did not have the faith, where his will did not submit to it.  This was a very profound and eye-opening statement.