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Author Topic: Cardinal Muller Sides with St. Bellarmine  (Read 5749 times)

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Cardinal Muller Sides with St. Bellarmine
« on: November 08, 2023, 05:33:35 AM »
As an aside, a comment at Gloria.tv notes this article was taken down by LSN.  Are they placing the unity of the clans above their journalistic integrity?

https://onepeterfive.com/pope-has-uttered-plenty-of-material-heresies-former-vatican-doctrinal-head/

I only post Muller’s opinion to note the fact of differences of opinion between ecclesiastics on this matter (ie., a couple months ago, I quoted Journet as preferring Cajetan and JST.  Muller obviously has a different view ).

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Cardinal Muller Sides with St. Bellarmine
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2023, 05:50:41 AM »
His "out" of using the "formal" vs. "material" heresy distinction is contrary to Bellarmine himself, who writes of MANIFEST heresy.

Quote
St. Robert Bellarmine, De Romano Pontifice, Book II, Chap. 30: "… for men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple, and condemn him as a heretic."

Now, there has to be pertinacity, but who can doubt Bergoglio's pertinacity?  Many Catholics have called him out for his heresies, and it's quite clear in the external forum that he pertinaciously adheres to them.

There's been a false theological trend going back a couple hundred years to conflate "formal" heresy with sincerity, something that can only be judged ultimately in the internal forum, which is why St. Robert speaks of judging men heretics by external works (in the external forum) rather than through "read[ing] hearts" (internal forum).

"Formal" heresy refers to where someone implicitly rejects the entire formal motive of faith, i.e. the teaching authority of the Church, rather than being in simple error, typically through ignorance ... and not to sincerity.  What heretic didn't "sincerely" believe the heresies he was promoting?


Re: Cardinal Muller Sides with St. Bellarmine
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2023, 05:58:55 AM »
His "out" of using the "formal" vs. "material" heresy distinction is contrary to Bellarmine himself, who writes of MANIFEST heresy.

I immediately noticed this error as well.  So, he does not agree with Saint Bellarmine.

Re: Cardinal Muller Sides with St. Bellarmine
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2023, 06:04:08 AM »
I immediately noticed this error as well.  So, he does not agree with Saint Bellarmine.

But the point was that he doesn’t advance Cajetan/JST.

And secondly, that even conciliarists are conceding Francis is at least a material heretic.

…and I might add that Vigano has been the catalyst for these conciliarists even considering the pope question.  7-8 years ago, I don’t recall a single one discussing the matter.

Re: Cardinal Muller Sides with St. Bellarmine
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2023, 06:15:53 AM »
But the point was that he doesn’t advance Cajetan/JST.

And secondly, that even conciliarists are conceding Francis is at least a material heretic.

…and I might add that Vigano has been the catalyst for these conciliarists even considering the pope question.  7-8 years ago, I don’t recall a single one discussing the matter.
Understood.  

We really don't know that it's because of Vigano.  I just think some of these NO clerics see that Bergoglio is going beyond the First Commandment heresies of Vatican II.  None of them take issue with Vatican II.