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Author Topic: but Classiccom....  (Read 4664 times)

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but Classiccom....
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2010, 11:10:18 PM »
Quote from: Roman Catholic


Saying I am tradition is not is a blasphemous statement implying Godhood. It is not the same as saying "I am Who am" which is how God described himself.

quote]

Clcom,

Do you concede?

but Classiccom....
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2010, 11:11:57 PM »
Quote from: Classiccom


They call me all kinds of names around here.



What do you call yourself; do you consider yourself a Roman Catholic?


Offline CM

but Classiccom....
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2010, 08:24:14 PM »
It has always been a recognized tradition in the Church that the bishop of Rome is he who settles disputes.  Hence, the words of Pius IX are correct.  As the pope, he is an embodiment of tradition and moreover to him alone, as pope, does it belong to define the true meaning of Scripture and tradition.

Quote from: The heretical schismatic (one who I will not get in trouble for denouncing - or at least I have not yet)
"Pius IX, in an edict of 1856, sanctioned 'secret execution'."


SOURCE?

Quote
This is the kind of guy you give unqualified support ?  Unqualified support is akin to  the My Lai massacre.


Are you the kind of guy we should trust unsubstantiated assertions from?

Unsubstantiated assertions are akin to blowing smoke up Balaam's donkey.


Quote from: some blog
the intrusiveness of Pius’s interventions and the emotional pressures he directly and indirectly applied to the bishops, as when he threatened, “If they won’t define it, I will do it myself.” Cardinal Guidi, an ardent infallibilist, proposed to the council that it was the papal magisterium, not the person of the pope, that was infallible and that this magisterium was infallible only when exercised in accord with the episcopacy. Pius, angry, dressed him down that evening with the famous words, “I am the church! I am the tradition!”


In other words he was opposing the anti-Scriptural error of the day, which was that the pope (irrespective of his accord with the bishops) is not capable of speaking in an infallible and decisive manner to which the faithful must give the assent of faith if they want to retain the Faith.

Classiccom has failed to recognize and apply the truth that when a man claiming to be pope contradicts such an infallible and decisive decree, he is a heretic, outside the Church, and incapable of holding office therein.

Question for the heretic:  Do you accuse the Blessed Virgin Mary of self aggrandizement?

Quote from: The Mother of God
for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed


To be consistent you would have to, but that would be a sacrilege that would merit you terrible torments in hell, since you would be attacking the Divinely inspired words she spoke.

Spouse, that was a very good opening post.

but Classiccom....
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2010, 10:17:08 PM »
quote

"Are you the kind of guy we should trust unsubstantiated assertions from? "

====================================

 Yes trust but verify. That is why they call this a forum.

  Pope Pius IX is the kind of guy that makes the ADL look like a responsible and good natured organisation.

http://www.adl.org/presrele/vaticanJєωιѕн_96/3630_96.asp

======================

 

ADL Statement on Beatification of Pope Pius IX

New York, N.Y., September 3, 2000 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today expressed concern at the Vatican’s beatification of Pope Pius IX, who was responsible for the 1858 abduction of a six-year old Jєωιѕн child.

Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:

    "The beatification of Pius IX is troubling for the Jєωιѕн community. Pius was responsible for the case of Edgardo Mortara, who at the age of six was abducted from his family in Bologna and taken to the Vatican by Papal police after it was reported that the Jєωιѕн child has been secretly baptized. Many European heads of state protested the 1858 kidnapping, as did Jєωιѕн leadership. As a result, Pius blamed Rome’s Jews for what he believed was a widespread Protestant conspiracy to defeat the papacy and levied medieval restrictions on the community.

    While ADL respects the beatification process as a matter for the Catholic Church alone, we find the selection of Pius IX as inappropriate based on policies he pursued as the head of the Church. It is in the context of the many years of positive progress in Catholic-Jєωιѕн relations, including the historic visit of Pope John Paul II to Israel and his asking for the forgiveness of the Jєωιѕн people, that the beatification of Pius IX, whose role in denying Edgardo Mortara his family and his right to be who he was, is most unfortunate."

The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world's leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry.



http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html

Pope 1846-78) (and here) was beatified in 2000.

    * Pius IX refused to support a society for the prevention of cruelty to animals. He said that: "such an association could not be sanctioned by the Holy See, being founded on a theological error, to wit, that Christians owed any duties to animals."
    * Pius IX was the last Pope to have temporal power, and to be able to abuse those unlucky enough to live in the Papal States.
    * In 1858, Pius IX's police brutally removed a 6 year old Jєωιѕн boy, Edgardo Mortara, from his parents and forcibly raised him as a Catholic. The pleas of Edgardo's distraught parents counted for nothing. They never got their little boy back. This is minor compared with the brutality of the church throughout history, but the sheer cruelty of it makes Pius IX a disgusting figure that no decent person should respect.
    * Anti-Defamation League Statement on Beatification of Pope Pius IX

but Classiccom....
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 10:39:40 PM »
http://www.cathar.info/1209_inquisition.htm

The Roman Inquisition The Roman Inquisition, more correctly the Congregation of the Inquisition, was set up in 1542 by Pope Paul III to help eradicate Protestantism from Italy. It was composed of cardinals, one of whom had proposed its establishment in the first place. He later became Pope himself, taking the name Paul IV. A keen opponent of the free exchange of ideas, he enjoys the distinction of having put even his own writings on the Index.

Procedures of the Roman Inquisition were no more just than those of earlier inquisitions, and executions became more common than in Spain. Freethinkers and scientists were added to the existing categories of victim for torture and execution. It was this inquisition that was responsible for burning the foremost philosopher of the Italian Renaissance, Giordano Bruno, in 1600; and for inducing the foremost scientist, Galileo, to recant under the threat of torture .

Book burning was as popular as elsewhere, but political repression added a new dimension. This persecution too continued for centuries, until the papacy became too far out of step with the rest of Western Christendom. Eventually the Church decided to change its ways, or at least give the appearance of changing them. Pope Pius VII purported to forbid the use of torture in 1816, although in practice it continued to be used for decades to come. Public burnings became something of an embarrassment too. The answer was not to abandon executions but to carry them out more discreetly. Pius IX, in an edict of 1856, sanctioned ‘secret execution’. In the Papal States things had changed little since the Middle Ages – it was for example still a crime to eat meat on a feast day. Political trials were conducted by priests, whose power was absolute. Again, the accused were not permitted legal representation, nor were they allowed to face their accusers. All this came to an end only in 1870, when the Papal States were seized. The last prisoners of the Inquisition were released , and the Pope became a self-confined prisoner in his own palace.

In 1908 the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Inquisition changed its name to the Holy Office. In 1967 it changed it again, this time to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. It still functions from a large building near the sacristy of St Peter’s in Rome. Since 1870 its dungeons have been converted into offices. Despite the name change, there is no apparent embarrassment about its history. On the contrary it still conducts heresy trials according to rules that breach what are elsewhere regarded as elementary rules of natural justice .

Despite the methodical destruction of Church torture chambers in modern times there is still evidence of their existence – not only medieval records but the testimony of early penal reformers like John Howard (1726–1790). Museums throughout Europe display instruments of torture carefully designed to inflict the maximum of pain over prolonged periods without shedding blood (a Papal requirement).

Because so many records have been lost, no one knows how many men, women and children were tortured or burned to death over the centuries by the various inquisitions. Similarly undetermined is the number of families dispossessed, children orphaned, communities destroyed. All we can say with certainty is that the pain and suffering that was caused is incalculable. Even sources sympathetic to the Roman Church have accepted estimates in excess of nine million.

One irony is that the Medieval, Spanish and Roman Inquisitions would all have burned Jesus as a persistent heretic if he had appeared before them. They might each have done so on different grounds: for example for advocating absolute poverty, for practicing Judaism, and for criticising St Peter.