Author Topic: Bishop Williamson on SV (Read 2428 times)

Belloc · « **on:** June 28, 2010, 01:09:27 PM »

When last week's "Eleison Comments" began by seeming to sympathize with the "sedevacantists" who believe that the Popes since John XXIII have not been Popes at all, and ended by seeming to sympathize with Cardinal Kasper for making fun of the unauthoritative Society of St Pius X, I know that there was at least one reader that was confused, and I suspect that she was not alone. But everything drops into place if one assumes that from Vatican II onwards, Catholic Truth has been split from Catholic Authority.

Now the Catholic Authority of the churchmen should be welded to the Catholic Truth of Our Lord, because that human Authority only exists to protect and teach that divine Truth. But at that dreadful Council (1962-1965), centuries of Protestant heresy and Liberal dissolution of truth had at last so wormed their way into the hearts and minds of a large majority of the Council Fathers that they gave up on the purity of Catholic Truth, and to this day they have been using all their Catholic Authority to impose on Catholics the Council's new and false religion of man.

Whereupon Catholics have been torn apart, both from one another and in themselves, as was inevitable. For either they have had to cling to Catholic Truth, and more or less abandon Catholic Authority, which is the solution of the "sedevacantists". And when one looks primarily at Catholic Truth, one may well sympathize with them, so horrible has been the betrayal of Truth by the highest churchmen, ever since that Council began. Or Catholics have chosen to cling to Catholic Authority, and more or less abandon Catholic Truth, which is the solution of Cardinal Kasper. And when one looks primarily to Catholic Authority, one may well sympathize with his loyalty to Benedict XVI, and understand the Cardinal's smile when he finds himself rebuked for not being Catholic by the wholly unauthoritative Society of St Pius X, still practically excommunicated.

Yet Archbishop Lefebvre chose a third way, in between the two extremes of either Truth or Authority. His way, in which he has been followed by that SSPX, was to cling to Catholic Truth, but with no disrespect towards Church Authority, nor any blanket disbelief in the status of its officials. It is a balance certainly not always easy to keep, but it has borne Catholic fruit all over the world, and it has sustained a faithful remnant of Catholics with true doctrine and the true sacraments for the 40 years we have so far spent in the Conciliar desert (1970-2010).

In that desert we Catholic sheep may have to be scattered for a while yet, as long as the Shepherd in Rome is struck (Zech.XIII,7, quoted by Our Lord in the Garden of Gethsemane -Mt.XXVI,31). In this Gethsemane of the Church, we do need compassion on our fellow sheep. That is why I can sympathize with "sedevacantists", and even with liberals (up to a point!). But that no way means that the third way as traced out by Archbishop Lefebvre has ceased to be the right way.

May the Great Mother of God long protect the little Society !

Kyrie eleison.

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 29, 2010, 08:52:43 AM »

Belloc,
Thank you for posting this. As I have briefly mentioned my family has just begun attending the SSPX. During the process of leaving the NO we struggled with exactly what you described. For about 2 months I talked almost daily with a few members of an SSPV. We knew that something was very wrong in the modern Church, but we were really struggling with what to do. At the time, I didn't really understand the "sv" position. After several conversations and a lot of prayers to the saints for guidance, we discovered an SSPX chapel near our home. Our best friends, friends we had in the modern Church, became really upset and we had this very argument that you highlight. They are uneasy with us because they believe, wrongly, that we have outright rejected Catholic Authority. It's been really hard and very confusing, to say the least. As for us, I only know this--things in our personal lives are changing.

Belloc · « **Reply #2 on:** June 29, 2010, 09:26:26 AM »

I know people that I talk to blue in face about SSPX, they despise them-some go to trad diocesan churches and are very trad in practice and behavior, yet have aburn against the society.

some of members may have caused this attitude in one lady i know, that triumphantalist attitude...she stated if we lost our TLM, she would NEVER go to a SSPX...would rather just look for another NO parish to attend TLM. I took her one time to a EC church, she liked it ok, but stated that was not an option either....

most still think SSPX is "schismatic" and does not recognize teh Pope, despite the big pics of B16 in most chapels....

glad you found your church home.....

Raoul76 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 29, 2010, 10:36:04 AM »

Quote

Yet Archbishop Lefebvre chose a third way, in between the two extremes of either Truth or Authority. His way, in which he has been followed by that SSPX, was to cling to Catholic Truth, but with no disrespect towards Church Authority, nor any blanket disbelief in the status of its officials. It is a balance certainly not always easy to keep, but it has borne Catholic fruit all over the world, and it has sustained a faithful remnant of Catholics with true doctrine and the true sacraments for the 40 years we have so far spent in the Conciliar desert (1970-2010).

Just when I was starting to like Bishop Williamson. He sounds like Wilford Brimley selling Quaker Oats: "Remember waking up in the morning with your Church under attack by Modernists and evil sedes? Then Abp. Lefebvre came and he gave us a third way: Hearty, rich Quaker Oats."

They have a propaganda machine over at SSPX, believe me, and they play on sentiment rather than facts. I can tell they really pound this home, this idea of the "third way," because I've heard Matthew espousing it. What is the difference between Vatican II and SSPX when they are both using the principle of obedience in a way that HARMS the Church?

The anti-sede paranoia they disseminate at SSPX is so thick that it led to Bishop Williamson helping get a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ ordained, Father Urrutigoity. When Urritigoity was a seminarian, the seminary in Argentina was run by Father Morello. Urritigoity was the subject of complaints from other students, and Father Morello wanted to expel him from the seminary, but he was protected by Father de Galarreta. Then Urritogoity ran to Winona, which at that time was headed by Bp. Williamson. Williamson. who thought that Morello was showing pro-sede sympathies, went into anti-sede panic mode and thought this nice young man was being persecuted. The result: Father Morello was fired from the SSPX while Urritigoity was ordained! He has since gone on to a monumentally embarrassing career, getting kicked out of Winona where he was a teacher and then entering the Novus Ordo where he has also been accused of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ actions.

This is from the Rite of Sodomy by Randy Engel.

The attitude at SSPX is screechy and shrill towards sedes because they cannot logically refute our position. The flop sweat is practically running down their faces, because their careers hinge on the ridiculous notion that the Church can teach error which they then need to "correct." In reality, the immaculate bride of Christ is never in need of correction, not that, even if it were, I would believe that these are the people to do it. They are as ineffective and toothless as a 17-year old guard dog.

That is why they have to heavily propagandize their flock with this Goldilocks and the Three Bears business that Modernist porridge is too hot, sedevacantist porridge is too cold, and SSPX porridge is just right.

Caminus · « **Reply #4 on:** June 29, 2010, 10:57:59 AM »

Emotional rhetoric founded upon ecclesiological conflation is all that the dogmatic sedevacantist has in his arsenal to unjustly attack other catholics. No wonder why no one likes them. Your flippant attitudes stink as much as your arguments lack cogency. Maybe if you would have an ounce of reverence for other catholics, you wouldn't feel so mistreated.

sedetrad · « **Reply #5 on:** June 29, 2010, 11:34:16 AM »

You mean like the ounce of "reverance" displayed by members of the sspx and certain members of their clergy towards sede Catholics? I am sorry Caminus. I have seen at some sspx websites and forums nothing but the uncharitable venom you so often rail against constantly directed against sedes.

sedetrad · « **Reply #6 on:** June 29, 2010, 11:36:03 AM »

Heck at Angelqueen, we are referred to as BLEEPS. I guess bleep is some sort of subhuman non-Catholic that is not worthy of the same respect and charity that they accord themselves and their membership.

Caminus · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2010, 11:40:24 AM »

Quote from: sedetrad

You mean like the ounce of "reverance" displayed by members of the sspx and certain members of their clergy towards sede Catholics? I am sorry Caminus. I have seen at some sspx websites and forums nothing but the uncharitable venom you so often rail against constantly directed against sedes.

And this is why:

Quote

The attitude at SSPX is screechy and shrill towards sedes because they cannot logically refute our position. The flop sweat is practically running down their faces, because their careers hinge on the ridiculous notion that the Church can teach error which they then need to "correct." In reality, the immaculate bride of Christ is never in need of correction, not that, even if it were, I would believe that these are the people to do it. They are as ineffective and toothless as a 17-year old guard dog.

That is why they have to heavily propagandize their flock with this Goldilocks and the Three Bears business that Modernist porridge is too hot, sedevacantist porridge is too cold, and SSPX porridge is just right.

Nasty, obnoxious, insulting.

Alexandria · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2010, 11:41:12 AM »

Quote from: Caminus

Emotional rhetoric founded upon ecclesiological conflation is all that the dogmatic sedevacantist has in his arsenal to unjustly attack other catholics. No wonder why no one likes them. Your flippant attitudes stink as much as your arguments lack cogency. Maybe if you would have an ounce of reverence for other catholics, you wouldn't feel so mistreated.

:scratchchin:

sedetrad · « **Reply #9 on:** June 29, 2010, 11:45:33 AM »

The attitude at SSPX is screechy and shrill towards sedes because they cannot logically refute our position. The flop sweat is practically running down their faces, because their careers hinge on the ridiculous notion that the Church can teach error which they then need to "correct." In reality, the immaculate bride of Christ is never in need of correction, not that, even if it were, I would believe that these are the people to do it. They are as ineffective and toothless as a 17-year old guard dog.

That is why they have to heavily propagandize their flock with this Goldilocks and the Three Bears business that Modernist porridge is too hot, sedevacantist porridge is too cold, and SSPX porridge is just right.

Nasty, obnoxious, insulting.

I have seen the exact same garbage spewed from sspx members towards us. Just replace ssxp with sede.

Belloc · « **Reply #10 on:** June 29, 2010, 12:00:07 PM »

thought you were no longer a SV..per some past posts......guess you do not attend their Masses in Goldsboro or Youngsville....do you go to the SV group in Jacksonville?

Belloc · « **Reply #11 on:** June 29, 2010, 12:02:00 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

Quote from: sedetrad
You mean like the ounce of "reverance" displayed by members of the sspx and certain members of their clergy towards sede Catholics? I am sorry Caminus. I have seen at some sspx websites and forums nothing but the uncharitable venom you so often rail against constantly directed against sedes.

And this is why:

Quote
The attitude at SSPX is screechy and shrill towards sedes because they cannot logically refute our position. The flop sweat is practically running down their faces, because their careers hinge on the ridiculous notion that the Church can teach error which they then need to "correct." In reality, the immaculate bride of Christ is never in need of correction, not that, even if it were, I would believe that these are the people to do it. They are as ineffective and toothless as a 17-year old guard dog.

That is why they have to heavily propagandize their flock with this Goldilocks and the Three Bears business that Modernist porridge is too hot, sedevacantist porridge is too cold, and SSPX porridge is just right.

Nasty, obnoxious, insulting.

true, most of venom seems to be from SV camp, rarely have I heard trashing of SV by SSPX, to what sites supposedly do this?

for most SV, if you are not a SV, well heck, you are likely headed to hell......most, though, not all, some ( ie, Dawn, Gladius) are rather good folks...

sedetrad · « **Reply #12 on:** June 29, 2010, 12:05:32 PM »

There is a sede group in Jacksonville? I am still sede, but I do not condem sspx members to hell. I even beleive novus members are not automatically condemed to hell. The vitriol I am talking about is at Angelqueen. It is constant.

Belloc · « **Reply #13 on:** June 29, 2010, 12:10:46 PM »

see my PM, not sure

anyone have that link for sede churches??? it provided list much like SSPX does for their chapels....