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Author Topic: Beatniks  (Read 956 times)

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Offline Traditional Guy 20

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Beatniks
« on: April 24, 2014, 06:10:20 PM »
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  • It is a common misconception that hippie ideals of rebellion against authority and society in general was a 1960's phenomenon. The precursor to the hippies were the beatniks (in fact a lot of beatniks would later turn into hippies) and these teenage rebels were very similar to hippies in many aspects. The beatniks came from the 1950's, a decade before the hippies of the 1960's, and revolted against the capitalist, affluent, and Christian ideals during this time period.

    To compare and constrast these two groups, beatniks revolted against the Christian religion and "converted" to Eastern mysticism as would the hippies a decade later (hippies would also try to downplay core Christain tenets and make Christianity more like Eastern mysticism). Beatniks revolted against the "preferred fashion" of the day, which during the 1950's was "conservative" for both men and women, and instead promoted a bohemian-style dress of black turtleneck sweaters, black trousers or blue jeans for men, black trousers and form-fitting black dresses for women, sunglasses, berets, etc. just as hippies a decade later would also promote the "hippie fashion" of blue jeans, shirtless, bell bottom pants or gypsy-style dresses, peace symbols, long haired and bearded, etc.

    sɛҳuąƖity amongst the two groups was also very obscene and beatniks lived in a community of men and women living together outside of marriage which was promoted also during the hippie movement under "free love" and both groups were sɛҳuąƖly promiscuous. Beatniks were mostly artists, musicians, and poets or were inspired by them as would hippies. While beatniks loved to listen to jazz hippies of course were inspired by the rock n' roll music of that era. Both groups also disdained suburban existence and instead were anti-materialist and anti-capitalist preferring to live with eachother sharing eachother's property (hence why you get that old joke of hippies sleeping in tents and hippies never taking baths). Both groups were also inspired by African and Asian thoughts and processes and were espiecially sympathetic towards civil rights for minorities.

    While the beatniks were inspired by Jack Kerouac's On the Road a leftist work full of drug experiecnes, sɛҳuąƖity, Eastern spiritism, rebellion, etc. hippies were inspired by Charles Reich's Greening of America. While beatniks enjoyed to smoke recreational marijunana hippies enjoyed drugs like LSD.


    Offline claudel

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    Beatniks
    « Reply #1 on: May 03, 2014, 05:11:06 AM »
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  • I have no intention of beginning an argument with you, but I do wish it known that much of what you have posted comes from a source that is very confused about who and what the Beats were. Simply put, a significant part of the comparison and analysis is just wrong. This is not a matter of saying that the Beats were "good" or "hardworking" or anything else of the sort. That is neither my view nor my point. But they were not the cartoonish figures that your source presents them as.

    Nor, in fact, was there really any such thing as a beatnik "movement." Put plainly, beatniks weren't joiners. What is more, the roots of whatever it was that beatniks had in common came not from free love or Buddhism or communal living (nonjoiners don't live in communes!) but from the late-forties development of what its practitioners called cool jazz. Incidentally, they used that term to distinguish themselves from their fellow jazz musicians who played in the style of the late thirties and early forties that was called—you guessed it—hot (or red hot) jazz. The very term "cool"—the longest-enduring slang word in the English language—was first used in its present sense (which is essentially "wow! this is something really good, and what's more, my mom and dad and other square folks will hate it") by those musicians and the people who sought out their performances—notably, the beatniks.

    The "marketing" of the beatnik idea was done by the Jєωs, of course, with Allen Ginsberg, one of history's greatest self-promoters and con artists, leading the way. He and his ilk were the ones who created the ridiculous notion that the so-called hippies were lineal descendants of the Beats. They weren't. Beatniks weren't political and they hated noise and crowds (recall that a central part of the cool jazz outlook or ethos or whatever you want to call it was a concern for reduced volume—indeed near silence—manifested by the rise of the solo jazz performer and the chamber-music-size ensemble, things that didn't exist during the Dixieland, swing, or big band eras; one of the most famous and admired groups in jazz history, the Modern Jazz Quartet, emerged from the cool jazz environment). The very idea of a Beatnik Woodstock or Beatniks for McGovern is thus simply inconceivable.

    Whole books could be written about Kerouac—as of course they have been. Never having read any of them, I have no idea to what extent, if any, they are accurate, but the fact that a pompous, lying fool like Douglas Brinkley has been working to get himself anointed Kerouac's leading chronicler certainly doesn't bode well. (When I say I never read any of this stuff, I'm not counting Tom Wolfe's Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, which centrally concerns Ken Kesey and his bunch but also of necessity has a certain amount about Kerouac, because a close friend of Kesey's, Neal Cassady, was an equally close friend of Kerouac's and is in fact, along with JK, the protagonist of On the Road.)

    To make just one point about JK, there was nothing hippieish about him in several important ways. Yes, he was interested in Buddhism, but he was also an old-fashioned American patriot who hated communists and spoke publicly in support of Senator Joseph McCarthy. He had no interest in celebrity, no interest in winning people over to drugs or leftist causes or social revolution. He was a guy with more daemons than one could shake a stick at, no doubt; a very sad and insecure man, more and more a loner as he got older, who made it plain that he loathed those who wanted to make him an icon of sorts and those—the hippies—who wanted to claim him as their progenitor and inspiration. As with so many other people so describable, he was a solitary drinker who drank far too much, and it was of course the drink that killed him before he was fifty.

    One last note. It is a mistake to cite sɛҳuąƖ promiscuity as a distinguishing mark of either the Beats or the hippies. If I have learned one thing in my wearily long life, it is that virtually every single social movement in recorded history has included sizable numbers of young men whose principal reason for joining was to get laid and equally sizable numbers of young women whose primary interest was in doing anything that would piss off their parents. In fact, the sole exception that comes to mind is Savonarola's ascetic movement in Florence (from him has come the expression "bonfire of the vanities"). His exceptionalism cost him his life.


    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    Beatniks
    « Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 12:35:03 PM »
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  • claudel Kerouac's On the Road is quite blatant in terms of sɛҳuąƖity, drugs, etc. with Kerouac buddying around with the likes of Ginsberg, etc. In fact in the second page of the book Kerouac describes happening upon his buddy and his girlfriend having sex with eachother (with Kerouac using the f-word to describe it).

    You are correct that the Beatniks were not necessarily spirutual ancestors to the hippies however their ideas were. Despite being the loners they proclaimed themselves to be they were quite communal and had sɛҳuąƖ relations with the other gender. Photos of the time period all support that.

    And beatniks are simply vile individuals to me because they loved jazz, even if they didn't do anything else.

    Offline Matthew

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    Beatniks
    « Reply #3 on: May 12, 2014, 12:43:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
    The precursor to the hippies were the beatniks (in fact a lot of beatniks would later turn into hippies) and these teenage rebels were very similar to hippies in many aspects. The beatniks came from the 1950's, a decade before the hippies of the 1960's, and revolted against the capitalist, affluent, and Christian ideals during this time period.


    Heck, I personally revolt against capitalist and affluent ideals. I prefer Catholic ideals, which contradict those two. Why put those two in with "Christian" ideals? It's not like those thing even go together, nevermind considering them a package deal.
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    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    Beatniks
    « Reply #4 on: May 12, 2014, 12:52:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Heck, I personally revolt against capitalist and affluent ideals. I prefer Catholic ideals, which contradict those two. Why put those two in with "Christian" ideals? It's not like those thing even go together, nevermind considering them a package deal.


    You have to remember that when one revolts against "capitalist and bourgeois" values on the Left it means a bohemian, liberal, or Marxist revolutionary movement. But yes I revolt against capitalist and affluent ideas (and anyone who reads my posts will of course admit that I do).

    By the way if you have ever read cultural Marxist works they mold capitalism and Christianity together. When one mentions a cultural war on the Left it always means to overthrow everything in the culture that is beautiful, descent, and praiseworthy, like classical music for instance.