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Author Topic: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective  (Read 1093 times)

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Offline RomanCatholic1953

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Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
« on: February 24, 2021, 09:13:19 AM »
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  • Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective

    https://www.ncregister.com/blog/astrology-from-church-perspective



    Offline cassini

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #1 on: February 26, 2021, 08:05:45 AM »
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  • Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective

    https://www.ncregister.com/blog/astrology-from-church-perspective

    'Imagine what kind of worthless, wishy-washy deity astrologists and their fans believe in. According to physicist Father Georges Lemaître, God initiated the Big Bang 13.4 billion years ago and oversees the position and disposition of every quark and photon in the universe — but if you cough up $500, Maggy the Psychic at the Turnpike Mall can read minds and palms and even talk to your dead dog.'

    Astrology is less harmful than the cosmology of Fr Lemaitre. Whereas most know fortune telling is story-telling, Fr Lemaitre, and indeed Pope Pius XII, gave credence to a cosmology that 'has no need of that God hypothesis' as Laplace said to Bonaparte when asked where does God fit in to a theory of origins and long-ages. Amnd what about the 13.4, or was it 13.5 billion years? Do you know how they came to that for the age of the universe compared to the martyrology of the Church, sonfirmed by pre-heliocentric popes, given out at the Easter celebrations that has the Bible revealing the world is only 6-7,000 years old. They get their 134.4 billion years from tghe Big bang theory. If you can say a star is 13.5 billion light-years away from Earth, then it is 13.4 billion years since the Big Bang. but what if one believes in Genesis and God's creation? It tells us when God created man on Earth, the stars were visible to him. So there is no time-scale that the position of the stars can give us.

    You see if you credit God with a Big Bang theory, then He is dependant on science. What if science discards the theory, will God have to go too? For example, Stepher Hawkins, a member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, before he died put forward the ultimate God-eliminating theory that you can get something from nothing.

    St Thomas Aquinas stated that the creation by God, cannot be lowered to human reasoning. Obviously Lemaitre knows better.



    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #2 on: February 26, 2021, 01:25:26 PM »
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  • All what cassini said above, and also: The Three Wise Men were at least some kind of astrologists. They read the stars, they found the star of Bethlehem and read it's course which told them where to find the newborn savior.

    Online Nadir

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #3 on: February 26, 2021, 06:20:43 PM »
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  • Seriously!!!

    Astrology is not an evil in itself. It is the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world.

    As Dankward noted, the Magi were astrologers and used their knowledge for an excellent purpose. Do a websearch for “signs in the stars drbo” and see what comes up.

    Jeremias 10:2 says “Thus saith the Lord: Learn not according to the ways of the Gentiles: and be not afraid of the signs of heaven, which the heathens fear“.

    We are not to fear or be bound by the signs in the heavens but to trust God.

    BTW, did you notice who is the writer? Why would you bother publishing this article written by

    Angelo Stagnaro Angelo Stagnaro ("Erasmus") performs as a stage magician and mentalist and divides his time between Europe and North America. He is the editor of “Smoke & Mirrors,” the Net's largest e-zine for professional magicians. He’s also the Guildmaster of the Catholic Magicians’ Guild and a professed member of the Secular Franciscans (Third Order Franciscans). Angelo has published articles in most of the major Catholic journals in the United States and Great Britain and had worked as a correspondent for the Catholic News Service having served as principle liaison for the wire service to the United Nations and to the Holy See's Office to the United Nations. Angelo has written six books on mentalism/cold reading including cօռspιʀαcʏ, Something from Nothing, The Other Side, Shibboleth and his upcoming Spur of the Moment. In addition, he’s written an instructional book for catechists which uses stage magic as a teaching tool for children and young adults entitled The Catechist's Magic Kit (Crossroad). His other books include How to Pray the Dominican Way (Paraclete) and The Christian Book of the Dead (Crossroad). His most recent book was released through Tau Publishing and is entitled A Lenten Cookbook for Catholics.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #4 on: February 26, 2021, 06:47:25 PM »
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  • All what cassini said above, and also: The Three Wise Men were at least some kind of astrologists. They read the stars, they found the star of Bethlehem and read it's course which told them where to find the newborn savior.

    Perhaps.  But for a star to be able to locate the exact place of Our Lord's birth?  That was no natural "star".  You could go for thousands of miles before the location of a star would appear to change and to stop directly over a manger.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #5 on: February 26, 2021, 07:01:33 PM »
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  • Basically, any light in the sky that wasn't the sun or the moon was called a STAR ... not a planet (which name derives from "wandering STAR").  So it was just some kind of "lesser light" in the sky.  And it went to and stopped directly over the place where Our Lord was to be and then had been born.  Given the length of their journey, it would have had to appear long before Our Lord's actual birth for them to appear right one time, on Christmas night.  [Modernists like to pretend that they showed up much later.]

    Notice, when Herod asked them when the star first appeared, and based on that information, had all the children <2 killed.  So the star appeared to them a good two years before the birth of Our Lord.  I'm not sure if the journey took two years or whether it took some time to prepare, etc. and God took that into account.

    Oh, another belief that I have.  I don't believe that St. Joseph (or the Magi) actually had "dreams".  I believe that the term dream was also used as a technical term (like a lot of theological terms in the New Testament that take common words and make them theological).

    I believe that St. Joseph had VISIONS that told him what to do.  And the Magi had the same, a vision of an angel who told them not to go back to Herod.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #6 on: February 26, 2021, 07:06:31 PM »
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  • Modernists refuse to recognize that some common words were appropriated by Christians and turned into technical terms.

    So, for instance, they claim that the Greek "presbyteros" just meant an "elder" ... but it actually means priest, a technical term.

    Modernists also claim that the angel called Our Lady "highly favored", but the root word of that verb is "charis", which came to mean not just "favor" but grace.  So the past perfect tense of "graced" is "filled with grace".  St. Jerome was right and not the morons who claim it just means "highly favored one".

    How is that hard to understand?  We do the same thing today.

    "grace" usually means "elegenace" but in a theological context it means something completely different.

    "charity" means generosity to the poor in common parlance, but as a theological word it's completely different (something I misunderstood myself as a child).  I thought "charity" meant giving money to the poor.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #7 on: February 26, 2021, 07:08:10 PM »
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  • When I was doing my doctoral coursework in [Patristic] Greek and Latin at The Catholic University of America, I had the intention of writing my doctoral dissertation on the theologically specialized language of the early Church (New Testament and Fathers) ... to put to bed all this crap where Our Lady is "highly favored" and priests are just "elders" and bishops are simply "overseers".  I was going to compare the terms to the Greek Septuagint, and then look at the original Hebrew they came from to prove that these had specialized meanings and were not used in their colloquial senses.


    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #8 on: February 26, 2021, 08:22:42 PM »
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  • Did you complete your doctorate Ladislaus?

    I burnt myself out after nine years of straight study,Bachelors and two Masters. I can but trust in the Holy Ghost in this matter because otherwise I would look back and say what in blasted Hades did I do all that for?
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #9 on: February 27, 2021, 02:42:33 AM »
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  • Perhaps.  But for a star to be able to locate the exact place of Our Lord's birth?  That was no natural "star".  You could go for thousands of miles before the location of a star would appear to change and to stop directly over a manger.
    I think the star wasn't like a beacon, but a symbol like other stars. Similar to astrologists who astrologically analyze a person given their birth date and other data, the Three Wise Men looked at the stars which told them that the savior would come, and they did the same with the newly appeared star of Bethlehem which indicated where they could find newborn Jesus.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #10 on: February 27, 2021, 09:43:48 AM »
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  • I think the star wasn't like a beacon, but a symbol like other stars. Similar to astrologists who astrologically analyze a person given their birth date and other data, the Three Wise Men looked at the stars which told them that the savior would come, and they did the same with the newly appeared star of Bethlehem which indicated where they could find newborn Jesus.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Who can tell Dankward. I go with the belief the star that directed the wise men to that very place of Our lord's birth had to be a miraculous 'star.' As Ladislaus said no actual star could direct anyone to a certain place, only in a ceertain direction. Therefore it had to be a a light with a beam that directed the men in their journey.

    But getting back to the original post and Nadir's post 'be not afraid of the signs of heaven, which the heathens fear“ we need to know the history of the star signs.

    ‘Because God created the material universe as an immense parable fraught with supernatural meaning, there exists an intimate relation between faith and the sky. “The heavens show forth the glory of God, and the firmament declareth the work of his hands.” (Ps 18:2). “Who telleth the number of the stars: and calleth them all by their names.” (Ps 146:4). “Shalt thou be able to join together the shining stars the Pleiades, or canst thou stop the turning about of Arcturus?” (Job 38:31-32). “Lift up your eyes on high and see who hath created these things: who bringeth out their host by number, and calleth them all by their names: by the greatness of his might, and power, not one of them was missing.” (Psa 40:26).’ --- Solange Hertz.

    When God gave Adam and Eve dominion over the Earth and its creatures, even allowing Adam to name them, God reserved the heavens to Himself and His angels. Some today are familiar with the Zodiac, a cosmic phenomenon observed throughout the year as the sun, as seen from Earth, passes in front of different star clusters on the ecliptic plane of the celestial sphere. These are divided into twelve ‘signs,’ known as constellations, one for each month of the year each with three subsidiary ones in each. In time, mankind found that a line joining these star-clusters depicts a different creature each month. In the Bible, as viewed above, we see it was God who gave names to these annual clusters, but few are aware that He created them to show us the history of the world.

    ‘The story which the Zodiac unfolds in the course of the year lies in the meanings of these names given by God to each of the star-clusters in its forty-eight constellations when He set them in order in the beginning, making of them, as the Psalmist says: “faithful witnesses in heaven” (Ps. 88:38) of His plan for the world… Put in proper order, beginning not with Aries as now deployed, but with Virgo, the sign under which Our Lady, the Blessed Virgin Mary, was born, and ending with Leo, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lion of Judah, universal Lord of Creation, rather than Pisces [Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces, Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo], the Zodiac foretold in the stars the story of the Incarnation, the Redemption and the world to come before the Bible was written.  (This, incidentally, provides the answer to the mystery of the Sphinx which, having the head of a woman and the body and tail of a lion is therefore simply a representation in stone of the ancient Zodiac). Capricorn, the sign under which Our Lord and saviour was born, is quite properly the Goat, a sacrificial animal offered for the remission of sins under the old law. Its back legs, however, terminate in the tail of a fish, signifying that its death produces life. In the accurate chronological order Capricorn is the fifth of the twelve signs, occurring appropriately in the beginning of the age of the Son in world history. God explicitly refers to the Zodiac when He asks Job out of the whirlwind, “Have you fitted a curb to the Pleiades, or loosened the bonds of Orion? Can you bring forth the Mazzaroth in their season, or guide the Bear with its train?” (Job 38:31-32)’--- Solange Hertz, The Scientific Illusion, 2003.

    It is not surprising then, in the context of that great battle of principalities and powers to find occult agents commandeering the Zodiac phenomena and signs for their own needs and to blind humanity to its original purpose in creation. First developed was the pagan astrology, the ancient art of divination by consulting the planets and stars, particularly the signs of the zodiac in relation to observed human events and making deductions and future predictions on this basis. After the Copernican revolution, the sun replaced the Earth at the centre of the Zodiac but the astrology ‘signs’ continued as the object of fraud, superstition and the occult, with men and women still claiming to read personal prophesies and messages in them. Open any newspaper today and see how the Zodiac is used as a useless occult belief system for vast numbers of people as carrying predictions for each of the twelve signs. The Catholic faith of course, absolutely rejects the idea that the sun, moon or planets could actually influence or predict one’s personal present or future behaviour. The Church teaches that men have free will and that God alone knows the future.



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #11 on: February 27, 2021, 09:58:13 AM »
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  • Did you complete your doctorate Ladislaus?

    I burnt myself out after nine years of straight study,Bachelors and two Masters. I can but trust in the Holy Ghost in this matter because otherwise I would look back and say what in blasted Hades did I do all that for?

    No.  I completed all of the coursework for the Masters and Ph.D. but never did the dissertation.  Catholic University of America had a very difficult program where the Master's was on Classical Greek and Latin while the Ph.D. was on Patristic&Medieval Greek and Latin.  Both had these HUGE reading lists ... double what you would get if you JUST did Classical Greek and Latin.  Plus it would have taken another 3 years to finish the dissertation.  Well, that would have been impossible given that, having completed my coursework, I now needed to work full time to make a living, since I was no longer riding a scholarship.

    I don't see it as a waste of time, though, since I learned so much about the Church Fathers.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #12 on: February 27, 2021, 10:10:19 AM »
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  • I think the star wasn't like a beacon, but a symbol like other stars. Similar to astrologists who astrologically analyze a person given their birth date and other data, the Three Wise Men looked at the stars which told them that the savior would come, and they did the same with the newly appeared star of Bethlehem which indicated where they could find newborn Jesus.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Well, Sacred Scripture states that the start stopped right over the exact location where Our Lord was born, with a position or location so exact that they could find precisely where Our Lord was, so I can't see how a natural "star" (in our understanding of the term) could actually do that.  I personally believe that it was some preternatural light created by God and probably visible only to the Magi.  It directed them to the exact place Our Lord was born.

    I'm not sure what the alternative would be, but of course this detail has not been revealed, so we're left to wonder.


    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #13 on: February 27, 2021, 10:59:16 AM »
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  • No.  I completed all of the coursework for the Masters and Ph.D. but never did the dissertation.  Catholic University of America had a very difficult program where the Master's was on Classical Greek and Latin while the Ph.D. was on Patristic&Medieval Greek and Latin.  Both had these HUGE reading lists ... double what you would get if you JUST did Classical Greek and Latin.  Plus it would have taken another 3 years to finish the dissertation.  Well, that would have been impossible given that, having completed my coursework, I now needed to work full time to make a living, since I was no longer riding a scholarship.

    I don't see it as a waste of time, though, since I learned so much about the Church Fathers.
    No, definitely time not wasted. I understand about reading lists completely. Oh vey! At least you were wise and did not have to slug through all of. Rahner’s and von Balthasar’s works, and commentaries upon commentaries. 
    I was told my masters thesis was doctoral level stuff but the institution only was able to confer masters degrees. 
    Plus all the extra studying on my own of actual Catholic teaching as the stuff we were fed was by a vast margin heretical. My small t traditional Catholic Polish faith was my saving grace.
    God always knows what He is doing so nothing we rightly do should be in vain. 
    I would not have minded taking Greek but there was no time at all. 
    Being of Slavic blood, I have taken an interest in Church Slavonic, in transliteration. As Scotty would say, fixing the warp core is easy but reading Klingon is hard! Thus with the various forms of Cyrillic type. 
    Sorry for the tangential discussion to all tuning in.
    Back to astrology!

    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Astrology From the Catholic Church’s Perspective
    « Reply #14 on: February 27, 2021, 11:07:52 AM »
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  • Well, Sacred Scripture states that the start stopped right over the exact location where Our Lord was born, with a position or location so exact that they could find precisely where Our Lord was, so I can't see how a natural "star" (in our understanding of the term) could actually do that.  I personally believe that it was some preternatural light created by God and probably visible only to the Magi.  It directed them to the exact place Our Lord was born.

    I'm not sure what the alternative would be, but of course this detail has not been revealed, so we're left to wonder.
    Cannot Almighty God the Father who made the heavens and the Earth create a star especially to herald the birth of the Son of God? That is my belief. 
    As an aside, Astronomy is great in the right hands but like any human endeavour, and subject to error.
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster