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Author Topic: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God  (Read 30766 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2019, 12:38:28 PM »
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  • Really, one of the issues most people in the geocentric vs. heliocentric debate seem to gloss over is ...

    WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF "CENTER"?

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #46 on: July 08, 2019, 12:41:01 PM »
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  • And also tell me which measurable force is causing that.
    The measurable force agreement does not hold up for those that believe in a Big Bang Universe, which requires Dark Matter and Dark Energy, because those dark forces  are also an unmeasurable force, and not only that, they are also an unknown and unproven force.


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #47 on: July 08, 2019, 12:41:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Edwin Hubble on Geocentrism
    Such a condition would imply, that we occupy a unique position[/b] in the universe and, analogous, in a sense to the ancient conception of a central earth, this hypothesis cannot be disproved..... but it is unwelcome and would only be accepted as a last resort in order to save the phenomenon. Therefore we disregard this possibility......the unwelcome position of a favored location must be avoided at all costs.... such a favored position is intolerable..... therefore in order to restore homogeneity and to escape the horror of a unique position, it must be compensated by spatial curvature. There seems to be no other escape. (1937)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #48 on: July 08, 2019, 12:41:47 PM »
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  • Let's say you had a solar system with a couple dozen extremely massive planets.  In such a scenario, it's possible that the barycenter of such a solar system would actually be closer to one of these planets than to the sun ... or even within one of the planets ... despite the fact that no individual planet has more mass than the sun itself.  So it's not about the most massive body is stationary while everything else moves.

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #49 on: July 08, 2019, 12:44:48 PM »
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  • You're really showcasing your ignorance.  Size has absolutely nothing to do with this.  It's possible for the 333,000 smaller body to have a LARGER MASS than the bigger one.  It's about mass and density and not about size.

    In this case, however, assuming that the assumption about the MASS of the two planets are indeed, correct, if the sun and earth existed alone ... as an isolated system, then the barycenter would certainly just so happen to reside somewhere within the physical boundaries of the sun.  But the sun and earth are not alone in the solar system.  So even NASA admits that the barycenter of the solar system (depending on the alignment of the planets) CAN exist outside the physical boundaries of the sun.  And then if you expand the system to the entire galaxy and then to the entire universe, no one can prove where the barycenter of the universe is ... or isn't.
    .
    OK, however, it the Earth is orbiting the Sun, it's a Heliocentric solar system,
    BECAUSE the barycenter is close to the Sun and nowhere near the Earth.
    .
    We know from Stellar Parallax that the Earth is NOT the center of the universe,
    because the stars are in different places relative to the Sun 6 months later.
    .


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #50 on: July 08, 2019, 12:45:48 PM »
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  • .
    OK, however, it the Earth is orbiting the Sun, it's a Heliocentric solar system,
    BECAUSE the barycenter is close to the Sun and nowhere near the Earth.
    .
    We know from Stellar Parallax that the Earth is NOT the center of the universe,
    because the stars are in different places relative to the Sun 6 months later.
    .
    zzzzzzz
    both points have been addressed numerous times before, you're too ill-willed to even read what we say before you copy-paste your last post.

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #51 on: July 08, 2019, 12:48:25 PM »
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  • I have read the Dimond Brothers attempt to render the 1616 and 1633 decrees no worth the paper they were recorded on. 'Their conclusion is that Geocentrism is NOT an infallible teaching of the Church.' you say and obviously believe. So, here we have the Protestant version of theology, thinking they know more than the judgement of Rome.
    .
    So, are you an extreme sedevacantist ... all popes after 1820 are heretics or anti-popes ?

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #52 on: July 08, 2019, 12:55:23 PM »
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  • Excellent point.  For all we know, the sun could have a much smaller mass than science claims that it does.
    .
    Yeah right !!!  Science is an evil conspiracy, created by Satan.  Good argument.
    And we don't understand gravity, but we understand barycenters (given to us
    by science). 
    .
    Yeah, we are smart.  We figured out that science is evil when we want it to be,
    and good when we want it to be.
    .
    And, all Heliocentrists are evil, including the popes that approved of it. 
    .
    Excuse me for leaving this discussion.  Go ahead and attack me some more,
    it may prove you correct in your la-la-land.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #53 on: July 08, 2019, 12:56:42 PM »
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  • .
    OK, however, it the Earth is orbiting the Sun, it's a Heliocentric solar system ...

    Once again, it's not true that the earth is orbiting the sun.  Both are orbiting the solar system's barycenter.  It's a "barycentric" solar system.

    And then who says that the geocentric/heliocentric debate is limited the solar system?  It's about the much broader issue of whether the earth is at the center and focal point of all God's creation (not just the solar system).  Really, the only reason that the classical/historical heliocentrist vs. geocentrist debates focused on the solar system was due to limited knowledge of what might have been beyond that.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #54 on: July 08, 2019, 01:00:33 PM »
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  • .
    Yeah right !!!  Science is an evil conspiracy, created by Satan.  Good argument.
    And we don't understand gravity, but we understand barycenters (given to us
    by science).  
    .
    Yeah, we are smart.  We figured out that science is evil when we want it to be,
    and good when we want it to be.
    .
    And, all Heliocentrists are evil, including the popes that approved of it.  
    .
    Excuse me for leaving this discussion.  Go ahead and attack me some more,
    it may prove you correct in your la-la-land.
    Nice strawmen, still you fail to address any arguments. We've explained countless times before how with multiple bodies, the barycentre may not lie within the largest mass at all. If the barycentre of the Universe lay within the Earth, the Sun would indeed orbit it despite being of greater mass. It's really not that hard to grasp, it's just science. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #55 on: July 08, 2019, 01:18:11 PM »
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  • So, for some of the geocentrists on this thread, do you consider it essential to geocentrism that the earth not move at all, not even rotate around its own axis?


    Online cassini

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #56 on: July 08, 2019, 02:30:36 PM »
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  • .
    So, are you an extreme sedevacantist ... all popes after 1820 are heretics or anti-popes ?

    I thought this thread was about the Dimond brothers and theology. It is now one that will seen by placed with the flat-earth out of sight.

    Yes, all popes who believe the Scriptures do not reveal geocentrism are heretics. But the circuмstances of their heresy is such that it amounts to MATERIAL heresy.

    In Catholic theology, the term material heresy refers to an opinion objectively contradictory to the teachings of the Church, which as such is heretical, but which is uttered by a person without the subjective knowledge of its being so.

    Beginning with Pope Pius VII, popes were told the heliocentrism of 1820 was not the heretical heliocentrism of 1616 and 1633, but a non heretical heliocentrism. Millions of other Catholics were also material heretics for the same reason. Material heresy is really NON-HERESY.

    But you Apollo, have been told the truth, so your choice to accept heliocentrism can be classed as formal heresy because you have rejected the truth after being told it. The same reasoning goes for the Dimond brothers and God knows how many others who have rejected the truth after being told geocentrism was never proven wrong and that no pope every rejected the infallibility of the 1616 decree.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #57 on: July 08, 2019, 02:35:08 PM »
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  • I thought this thread was about the Dimond brothers and theology. It is now one that will seen by placed with the flat-earth out of sight.

    Yes, all popes who believe the Scriptures do not reveal geocentrism are heretics. But the circuмstances of their heresy is such that it amounts to MATERIAL heresy.

    In Catholic theology, the term material heresy refers to an opinion objectively contradictory to the teachings of the Church, which as such is heretical, but which is uttered by a person without the subjective knowledge of its being so.

    Beginning with Pope Pius VII, popes were told the heliocentrism of 1820 was not the heretical heliocentrism of 1616 and 1633, but a non heretical heliocentrism. Millions of other Catholics were also material heretics for the same reason. Material heresy is really NON-HERESY.

    But you Apollo, have been told the truth, so your choice to accept heliocentrism can be classed as formal heresy because you have rejected the truth after being told it. The same reasoning goes for the Dimond brothers and God knows how many others who have rejected the truth after being told geocentrism was never proven wrong and that no pope every rejected the infallibility of the 1616 decree.
    Cassini, which model of geocentrism do you adhere to and how does it explain Stellar Parallax? 

    Online cassini

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #58 on: July 08, 2019, 02:37:05 PM »
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  • So, for some of the geocentrists on this thread, do you consider it essential to geocentrism that the earth not move at all, not even rotate around its own axis?

    The Earth does not move.

    .” (2) The second proposition, “That the Earth is not the centre of the world, and moves as a whole, and also with a diurnal movement,” was unanimously declared “to deserve the same censure philosophically, and, theologically considered to be at least erroneous in faith.”

    Diurnal movement is daily movement, which would be caused by spin. So no, the Earth does not rotate on its axis.

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #59 on: July 08, 2019, 02:42:25 PM »
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  • Excellent point.  For all we know, the sun could have a much smaller mass than science claims that it does.
    Putting something in a solar orbit requires a relatively accurate value for the mass of the sun. And we have successfully put several probes in solar orbits since the 1960s. So yes, we are relatively sure of the mass of the sun.

    Forlorn's quote attributed to Hubble earlier is a few sentences pieced together with a LOT of stuff cut, making it appear to say something quite different than Hubble is actually saying. The first part starts "such a condition would imply [...]" and ends "therefore we disregard this possibility". What are "such a condition" and "this possibility" referring to? In context, Hubble is considering the possibility that the density of galaxies might increase or decrease with distance. He can't strictly rule out the possibility that it increases, but he says it would be unwelcome, because he doesn't see a mechanism to produce it, and it doesn't fit the data. The end continues: "therefore we disregard the possibility and consider the alternative, namely, a distribution which thins out with distance", for which there could be mechanisms, but it also doesn't fit the data. The second part of the quote is from a different section of his book. Putting the two together adds to the misleading. I'm not accusing forlorn, who almost certainly got this quote from somewhere else. But whoever originally put this "quote" together either severely misunderstood Hubble's point, or was not acting honestly.

    Full context: https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/Sept04/Hubble/Hubble3_2.html