Well, at least we have guts to shoot to begin with.
Yeah yeah yeah, the old "the French are cowards line" because of -- what was it, a single war effort prosecuted by the Republic, of all things, whereas Marechal Pétain and the royalists collaborated with the Germans against international Jewry and liberal degeneracy ? I don't believe the myth of unique United-Statesian martial prowess -- which doesn't seem to exist without expensive technology that other nations have not been able to produce in large numbers (how come you don't thank the Jews on Wall Street for that ? Isn't that a little inconsistent ? :scratchchin:). You can save your stupid chest-thumping for the American Legion hall or the country club where they might want to hear about it. France was a divided nation and still is; she labours under the ideology and machinery of the Revolution. Her historical legacy, however, is a proud one.
The Américains believe that they have usurped the prestige and martial reputation of the French because of the results of one single conflict, wherein the resources and industrial capacity were completely incomparable, as well as the calibre of leadership, and the nation was morally deeply divided. This is hardly an objective comparison. Regardless, sorry, but it isn't that easy : The US cannot take the military reputation of France because of one war. Come back after winning the majority of battles and wars, and accomplishing heroic feats on many continents to do so, over the course of one thousand and five hundred years. Then we can actually compare France and the US in all seriousness.
I wonder how many fully loaded French rifles were dropped as they were high-tailing it back across the Channel with their limey Masonic British allies.
Blah blah blah. You seem to be under the impression that I am a supporter of the Allies or that I believe that the Republic truly represents France and French interests. If so, you are wrong on both scores.
Divine punishment? Really?
Yes, really. That is how Divine Providence works. People sin and become forgetful of God, God sends them war and famine and death as they deserve, in order to save souls and make people trust and remember Him again, since otherwise they would all become corrupted and be damned. Sometimes wars are not the punishment for sin but are the sin themselves; it seems pretty clear that the World Wars were punishments, though. After all, not only did God punish the Israelites multiple times for their idolatry by means of war, such as when he allowed the Babylonians to conquer them, but Our Lady of Fatima herself predicted World War II, explicitly denoting it as a punishment for the wickedness of the world.
Now, certain acts, since the beginning of time, often go along with war, such as raping and pillaging. The Huns and, especially, the Mongols are good examples of this. Genghis Khan was aware of his role, and nobody would deny it. He said, "Had you not created great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you." He was right.
And by a bunch savage commie muderers and rapists nonetheless.
God frequently uses brutal people, frequently from the steppe as it so happens, to punish nations that have left Him or that have committed great crimes.
Thanks God, you really proved a point there.
Shame on you for speaking of Our Lord so lightly.
And then "God" in his divine wisdom hands half of Europe over to these same godless, communist heathens.
Yes, just like when the Israelites were taken captive by the Babylonians. It was just.
Tell me, was that "divine punishment" for Poland too?
Yes, most likely for Polish liberalism, which was running amok and growing. Or maybe it was to pay for some future reward we have not yet seen. It is hard to tell sometimes; but who would dare to question the ways of the Eternal Father, when He sends out His angels to deliver punishments to various places ?
Or the Baltic countries and Balkans?
Sure, why not ? I don't understand why this concept, which is as old as Melchisdech and as Catholic as priestly celibacy, is so offensive to you.
I mean, how much divine punishment did God deal out and for how long because of those mean, nasty ol German National Socialists?
Apparently not enough, given the state of the world. And if you don't believe that a nation that murders children in the womb because they are "impure" and that murders those who are handicapped and ailing is worthy of punishment, how do you consider yourself Catholic ? Oh, I get it, they were the enemies of the Communists and you have an ethnic affinity with them, so it's okay because it's your guys, right ? It's okay to officially subject the Church to the all-powerful state, to forbid Catholic parents to homeschool in violation of the natural law, because the Germans -- who are good guys, apparently -- are doing it ? And because the USSR existed at the same time ?
Uhh....what? That makes no sense. If someone is punishing me, I sure would like to know damn well what I did wrong. I mean, wouldn't anybody?
Surely you would know if you made an examination of your conscience. Sometimes misfortune happens to us in order to strengthen us against a future temptation, or else to lead us to our true vocations. I feel bad for you, in case you lose a loved one and have the gall to blame your misfortune on God being cruel.
Justice? You mean raping and pillaging of women and children is now "justice"?
It is certainly not subjective justice for the soldiers, but certainly the rape and pillage of cities and countries after losses in war can be seen as a form of punishment that God allows. The punishment itself, the death, He authors. The subjective sinful intentions and the sinfulness in general He only allows by way of His permissive will. That being said, it would have been just for the rapists to be hanged. But that doesn't mean that the German destruction on the part of the Red Army was not a divine punishment, just like the conquests of the Mongols were divine punishments. (Let me guess, those were chiefly conquests of Chinese, Mohammedan, and Slavic peoples, so they don't count, since they are not Germans, a people so great that God winks at their otherwise horrible sins ?)
You have a twisted idea of justice IMO, more like retribution or revenge.
There is justice according to human laws, and there is justice meted out by God according to His own laws that He has revealed in His two garments, Nature and the Scriptures, and in the Regula Fidei of the New and Eternal Covenant. I have a strict and timeless idea of justice, since my idea of justice comes from the Fathers, the Scriptures, and Catholic writers -- especially a certain Savoyard ambassador.
Sure, if you said that I could understand, not that I agree, but at least I could understand where your coming from.
"And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and they served Baalim. And they left the Lord the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of the land of Egypt: and they followed strange gods, and the gods of the people that dwelt round about them, and they adored them: and they provoked the Lord to anger. Forsaking him, and serving Baal and Astaroth. [14] And the Lord being angry against Israel, delivered them into the hands of plunderers: who took them and sold them to their enemies, that dwelt round about: neither could they stand against their enemies: But whithersoever they meant to go, the hand of the Lord was upon them, as he had said, and as he had sworn to them: and they were greatly distressed" (Judges II, xi-xv).
(Note : (XII) They followed strange gods: What is here said of the children of Israel, as to their falling so often into idolatry, is to be understood of a great part of them; but not so universally, as if the true worship of God was ever quite abolished among them: for the succession of the true church and religion was kept up all this time by the priests and Levites, at least in the house of God in Silo.)
"In the days of Samgar the son of Anath, in the days of Jahel the paths rested: and they that went by them, walked through by-ways.The valiant men ceased, and rested in Israel: until Debbora arose, a mother arose in Israel. The Lord chose new wars, and he himself overthrew the gates of the enemies: a shield and spear was not seen among forty thousand of Israel" (Judges II, vi-viii).
(Note : (VI) The paths rested: The ways to the sanctuary of God were unfrequented: and men walked in the by-ways of error and sin.)
"In those days the Lord began to send into Juda Basin king of Syria, and Phacee the son of Romelia" (IV Kings XV, xxxvii).
"And the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Phul king of the Assyrians, and the spirit of Thelgathphalnasar king of Assur: and he carried away Ruben, and Gad, and the half tribe of Manasses, and brought them to Lahela, and to Habor, and to Ara, and to the river of Gozan, unto this day" (I Paralipomenon V, xxvi).
Read the Saint Petersburg Dialogues of Joseph de Maistre, as well as his Considerations on France and The Enlightenment on Sacrifices. Then you will see from where I am coming and will see that it is Catholic.
Ahh yes, Pierre, lover of all things French and Red Russian.
Yes, I do love the culture and history and heros of my people, being that I am a patriot. Even if I were not French, though, I think I would have to be quite the philistine to be enthusiastic about the Protestant culture and history of the Anglo-American establishment and the Prussians. As for also being a Russophile, consider me guilty as charged. That being said, I am able to distinguish between the Russian people themselves and their history and the Communist régime (even to the point, yes, of listening to the Red Army choir -- which I hope will not anger somebody of your sensibilities too much). But what can I say, what's not glorious and lovable about the North, the steppe, and the traditions of the Eastern Slavs ? Or the Celts and Latins ? Or anybody, really, but the Germans and English and their inbred offspring, the United-Statesians, a people proud in their ignorance and lack of true culture ?
I tell you what, given the chance, I'd much rather dine with Patton and Rommel than Degaulle or Zhukov, but that's just me.
I would rather dine with a voyageur or a cossack, or the Eldest Son of the Church, than some German or United-Statesian general.
The way the Red Army behaved, I don't see how you could refer to them as anything different.
It's a dumb word, so I won't use it to refer to anybody. Whenever anybody uses it, I imagine some vain woman from Victorian England saying it with Received Pronunciation or else an effeminate man -- alien to physical exertion -- allocating it with dripping contempt upon those clearly more manly than himself. It really is a stupid word.
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