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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: poche on June 07, 2019, 11:01:16 PM

Title: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: poche on June 07, 2019, 11:01:16 PM
This week, Illinois passed the most extreme pro-abortion state legislation in America — with some Catholic lawmakers taking the lead in pushing forward this anti-life bill.
In response, Bishop Thomas Paprocki of Springfield, Illinois, today issued a public decree (https://www.ncregister.com/images/uploads/6.6.19_No_Communion_Catholic_Lawmakers.pdf) communicating to his priests that all Illinois Catholic lawmakers who voted for the state’s new Reproductive Health Act, or for an earlier 2017 bill that legalized taxpayer funding of abortions, should not present themselves to receive Holy Communion in the Diocese of Springfield “without first being reconciled to Christ and the Church.” The decree, and an accompanying letter, were mailed earlier in the week to all of the Catholic lawmakers who voted in favor of the bills.
And the new decree (https://www.ncregister.com/images/uploads/Decree_per_canons_915-916_-_6-2-2019.pdf) singles out by name House Speaker Michael Madigan and Senate President John Cullerton, stating that because of their important leadership roles in the passage of the pair of pro-abortion bills, they “are not to be admitted to Holy Communion in the Diocese of Springfield in Illinois because they have obstinately persisted in promoting the abominable crime and very grave sin of abortion.”
In this interview with the Register, Bishop Paprocki discusses why he felt impelled to issue the decree, the harm being caused to the faith nationwide by U.S. Catholic politicians who continue to ignore their bishops and pastors by supporting extreme pro-abortion laws like the one just passed in Illinois, and the Church’s unequivocal and unchanging teachings regarding the intrinsic evil of abortion.
 
This is a decree that will be of great interest in Illinois, but also nationally, as the entire abortion debate continues in the United States. How did we reach this moment where it is necessary for a decree like this?

It seems to me that we’ve arrived at a point where we really need to be clear about the teachings of the Church, and an action like this is really designed to protect the integrity of our sacraments and the clarity of our teaching.
It wasn’t too long ago where you had the so-called pro-choice politicians at least saying abortion needed to be “safe, legal and rare,” and we’ve unfortunately come to the point where the politicians are celebrating the fact that abortion legislation is passing that allows for abortions right up until the moment of birth; that declares abortion to be “a fundamental right”; that requires taxpayer funding of abortion and additional measures like that that are really quite extreme.

And so now we’ve got politicians, Catholic politicians (https://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/democratic-presidential-hopeful-kirsten-gillibrand-church-is-wrong-on-abort) who are saying that they think the Church is wrong. They think the Church is wrong about abortion and euthanasia and our teachings on marriage and family life. And I think that cannot be allowed to go unchallenged. We have to be clear that you cannot be pro-abortion and be a Catholic in good standing. And that’s what this is really intended to do.
 
Have you been surprised over the years at the shift of a number of Catholic politicians in support of abortion — 14 Catholic U.S. senators voted against an important bill just last year [the Pain-Capable Unborn Children’s Act] and that involved Sen. Richard Durbin of Illinois — and so many other acts the Church considers intrinsically evil?
Yes, it is somewhat surprising, but it’s especially disappointing because you have politicians who have publicly embraced their Catholicism and have made it made known that they considered themselves to be Catholics, and they want Catholic voters especially to know that they’re Catholic; but they seem then to have taken this position that they know better than the Church. And, in fact, it seems to be the goal of some of them, that they’re going to force the Church to change her teaching on these matters.
And I think that we have to be quite clear, as I [am] in my decree on this matter. I’ve got several paragraphs in there that try to trace the history of this matter going back to the first century of the Church, where you had the declaration and the document called the Didache — “You shall not kill the embryo by abortion.” “You shall not cause the newborn to perish.” So it goes back all the way from the earliest beginnings of Christianity.

But even for those who want to say, “Well, you know, times have changed and we’re in the post-Vatican II era and we have to adapt to the times ...,” I also have in my decree a statement from the declaration from the Second Vatican Council document on the Church in the modern world, Gaudium et Spes (http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_cons_19651207_gaudium-et-spes_en.html); in Paragraph 51, it says, “Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: Abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.” This is the Second Vatican Council calling abortion and infanticide “abominable crimes.”
And, even more recently, Pope Francis has used very similar language. In 2016, he used the terminology such as abortion is “a very grave evil.” He called it “a horrendous crime.”
So we can’t have politicians today saying, “You know what? The Church is wrong. It was wrong 2,000 years ago. It was wrong at the Second Vatican Council. Pope Francis is wrong. The Church needs to get with it and start accepting the reality of abortion.” And we have to be clear that if that’s their intent then that’s simply not acceptable.
 
Pope Francis, I think just a few days ago, used the somewhat-colorful image of that you’re essentially hiring a hitman (https://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-abortion-is-like-hiring-a-hitman), stressing again that this is beyond simply a medical procedure, that this is the taking of a human life. But to go back to your pointing out, the Didache and others, can we explain, for those who may not be that familiar with the Church’s teachings on this — and it always bears worth repeating: why we consider abortion and euthanasia in particular, but other things, to be intrinsically evil. And what do we mean as a Church by intrinsically evil?

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/bishop-paprocki-communion-prohibited-to-catholic-lawmakers-who-voted-for-il (http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/bishop-paprocki-communion-prohibited-to-catholic-lawmakers-who-voted-for-il)
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: ByzCat3000 on June 07, 2019, 11:19:28 PM
Francis should back up his (correct and praiseworthy) statement with excommunications for those who don't conform.  I'm glad this bishop is taking action. Francis should be backing him up, and taking action against bishops (*cough* Cardinal Dolan) who don't.
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: poche on June 08, 2019, 01:07:43 AM
When Pope Francis was Cardinal Bergoglio of Buenos Aires he said that any politician who voted for abortion or gay marriage should consider himself to be excommunicated. 
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 08, 2019, 04:04:47 AM
When Pope Francis was Cardinal Bergoglio of Buenos Aires he said that any politician who voted for abortion or gay marriage should consider himself to be excommunicated.
Can you provide a reference for this?
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: Ladislaus on June 08, 2019, 08:10:56 AM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/4aa1f9bd74bf5ebca708189eb44ceb67/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: Cera on June 08, 2019, 01:44:55 PM
Oops, sorry I didn't see this. Thank you for posting it.
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: JezusDeKoning on June 08, 2019, 10:47:41 PM
When Pope Francis was Cardinal Bergoglio of Buenos Aires he said that any politician who voted for abortion or gay marriage should consider himself to be excommunicated.
Right, and dolphins can run on land.

The same "Pope" Francis who allowed a baptism of the child of two h (https://novusordowatch.org/2013/04/homo-baptism-buenos-aires/)omosexuals in his archdiocese said that? And the same who as Pope, gave Emma Bonino an audience? (https://novusordowatch.org/2016/11/francis-receives-emma-bonino/) 

He DID come out vaguely against it (http://www.infocatolica.com/?t=noticia&cod=6783) (article in Spanish), but I am personally not convinced that he is actually against it. He says the default Catholic version to find favor with the clergy, but that's just to save face. His speeches and theology do not come off as "Catholic" at all.
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: poche on June 08, 2019, 10:59:17 PM
Can you provide a reference for this?
I am speaking from memory. However immediately after his election to the papacy, Argentina watchers were surprised at his warm reception of the Argentine prime minister because of his very cold relations between him and the liberal avante guarde trendy Peronist government. 
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 09, 2019, 05:07:39 AM
I am speaking from memory. However immediately after his election to the papacy, Argentina watchers were surprised at his warm reception of the Argentine prime minister because of his very cold relations between him and the liberal avante guarde trendy Peronist government.
Your memory is not proof. 
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 09, 2019, 05:09:04 AM
Right, and dolphins can run on land.

The same "Pope" Francis who allowed a baptism of the child of two h (https://novusordowatch.org/2013/04/homo-baptism-buenos-aires/)omosexuals in his archdiocese said that? And the same who as Pope, gave Emma Bonino an audience? (https://novusordowatch.org/2016/11/francis-receives-emma-bonino/)

He DID come out vaguely against it (http://www.infocatolica.com/?t=noticia&cod=6783) (article in Spanish), but I am personally not convinced that he is actually against it. He says the default Catholic version to find favor with the clergy, but that's just to save face. His speeches and theology do not come off as "Catholic" at all.
:applause:Bergoglio doesn’t condemn these things, he encourages them.
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: poche on June 09, 2019, 11:48:55 PM
:applause:Bergoglio doesn’t condemn these things, he encourages them.
In the case of the baptism of the child, there is a proviso in the 1917 Code of Canon Law which allows for the baptism of non Catholics if there would be someone appropriate to guide the child's spiritual development. That was the condition which the Vatican imposed in order to allow for that child to be baptized.  
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 10, 2019, 06:06:59 AM
In the case of the baptism of the child, there is a proviso in the 1917 Code of Canon Law which allows for the baptism of non Catholics if there would be someone appropriate to guide the child's spiritual development. That was the condition which the Vatican imposed in order to allow for that child to be baptized.  
What does that have to do with anything? Do you think that the public perverts, in the case above, qualify?
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: poche on June 10, 2019, 08:02:26 AM
What does that have to do with anything? Do you think that the public perverts, in the case above, qualify?
If the spiritual guide is a faithful Catholic who takes their job seriously then it is the child who would benefit. This person has a difficult job and needs our prayers. 
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: Ladislaus on June 10, 2019, 10:18:05 AM
If the spiritual guide is a faithful Catholic who takes their job seriously then it is the child who would benefit. This person has a difficult job and needs our prayers.

You are ipso facto disqualified for consideration as a "faithful Catholic" when you deliberately reject the Church's moral teaching.  It's heretical to suggest or imply that unnatural vice is acceptable.  Are you really expecting them to teach this child:  "What we are doing is grave mortal sin; we are perverts."
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: homeschoolmom on June 10, 2019, 10:52:28 AM

Fascinating to see poche stumble in his charade of the clueless, non-threatening NO'er. Seems like a rare occurrence. 
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: poche on June 10, 2019, 01:30:25 PM
You are ipso facto disqualified for consideration as a "faithful Catholic" when you deliberately reject the Church's moral teaching.  It's heretical to suggest or imply that unnatural vice is acceptable.  Are you really expecting them to teach this child:  "What we are doing is grave mortal sin; we are perverts."
I am expecting the spiritual guide to say that that is not the right way to live. 
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 10, 2019, 04:34:41 PM
If the spiritual guide is a faithful Catholic who takes their job seriously then it is the child who would benefit. This person has a difficult job and needs our prayers.
So a faithful Catholic can be a person who is morally bankrupt and promotes others to engage in (and participates in) sins crying to Heaven for vengeance!? You are one sick (or really stupid) puppy! 
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 10, 2019, 04:38:33 PM
I am expecting the spiritual guide to say that that is not the right way to live.
Poche, you are really to be pitied. I will offer some prayers for your conversion.
Title: Re: A Bishop in Resistance to Evil
Post by: poche on June 13, 2019, 11:23:42 PM
So a faithful Catholic can be a person who is morally bankrupt and promotes others to engage in (and participates in) sins crying to Heaven for vengeance!? You are one sick (or really stupid) puppy!
A faithful Catholic would not be morally bankrupt. They would not be promoting others to engage in sin. They would teach the child the right way to live in conformity with the law of God.