Author Topic: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat  (Read 38682 times)

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Offline mw2016

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Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #465 on: March 20, 2017, 06:26:52 PM »
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  • Here is a quick lesson in great circle usefulness.


    Why give us a map lesson on an object that does not exist? What is your point?

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #466 on: March 22, 2017, 01:04:45 AM »
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  • Why give us a map lesson on an object that does not exist? What is your point?
    The point is, the rhumb line is easy to follow because the bearing is kept constant and the navigator doesn't have to constantly adjust bearing to follow the great circle route in order to achieve the shortest distance. 

    Near the end of this video it shows two points in the northern hemisphere, something like a city in Canada and a city in Scandinavia (or thereabouts) where the rhumb line distance (nearly constant latitude) is much greater than the great circle distance, the latter of which takes the course through the arctic. If viewed on a "flat" earth map with the north pole in the center, both courses are curved. The great circle course will appear to be longer than a route following an apparently straight line on the flat map, but if you actually plot those courses and measure the distance, the apparently straight line course is actually longer than the apparently curved great circle route!! 

    But more tellingly, the rhumb line course takes the transit far afield in the other direction, which seems to be absurdly out of the way. It appears to be nearly twice as far as the apparently straight line route. (The rhumb line course is indeed longer but the video's drawing exaggerates it a lot.)

    In the end, rhumb line courses are easy to follow because you don't have to adjust your course heading, you just keep it the same the whole way. But you end up traveling further, that is, unless your are traveling over the equator or along a meridian. By understanding how rhumb lines work, one is better able to comprehend the significance of great circle routes, which do not have any relation to a projection of the spherical earth on a flat map. In order to find the great circle route you need to consider the distance to the center of the earth from any given point on the route. This is often approximated by an average distance to the earth's center, and the results are close enough to allow for corrections near the end of the flight or course (air or water).
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #467 on: March 22, 2017, 01:29:00 AM »
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  • Here's a video that addresses flat-earth videos point by point, but I don't really agree with some of its claims. Interesting, nonetheless: 



    A very important concept in geodetic surveying is briefly touched on at minute 21 - 22: spherical excess. 
    When you expand this triangle sufficiently, you can get three 90-degree angles.
    Anyone with familiarity with basic geometry knows that a triangle cannot have 3 right angles.
    But on a sphere, you can have a triangle with 3 right angles, with spherical excess.

    There are several examples of three points on the globe that conform to this principle.

    The same guy has a 4-video series where he gently describes the various aspects of this argument:


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    Offline FlatEarthInquisitor

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #468 on: March 22, 2017, 07:14:14 AM »
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  • ho ho.
    Neil are you are aware that by now you have lost almost all credibility? You can't respond to our responses.

    you know, I have this image you with an angry look on your face, frantically looking up all the anti-flat earth videos on youtube you can find.

    You are totally uncritical in your analysis of these videos. That's why you don't respond to our responses to them.

    About the first video, he states that there is speherical excess, but doesn't give us any practical examples or experience of engineers who have done it. It exists only in a textbook.

    Here is an interview with an engineer of many years experience who says that they do not in practice measure curvature at all.



    By the way, are you aware that engineers discount curvature for the first 20km squared? very convenient.


    Another mistake he made in his video was talking about the dip every 69 miles. I'm sorry but that is beyond idiotic in his analysis. You can get the forumula for curvature with one simple google search.

    8 inches per mile squared. If you don't square it, you end up with a straight line. Think about it.

    I get the feeling in talking to neil that I am talking to one of these chat bots. No matter what you say, it will just come back to the default answer. Poor guy. He needs prayers.

    I'll respond to the second video if I get time.


    Offline mw2016

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #469 on: March 22, 2017, 10:45:29 AM »
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  • In order to find the great circle route you need to consider the distance to the center of the earth from any given point on the route. This is often approximated by an average distance to the earth's center, and the results are close enough to allow for corrections near the end of the flight or course (air or water).
    One thing you absolutely DO NOT have to do inorder to go from point A to pont B on the face of the earth is "consider the distance to the center of the earth."
    How ridiculous.
    There is no "center of the earth."
    There is only hell below us.


    Offline mw2016

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #470 on: March 22, 2017, 10:47:38 AM »
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  • When you expand this triangle sufficiently, you can get three 90-degree angles.
    Anyone with familiarity with basic geometry knows that a triangle cannot have 3 right angles.
    But on a sphere, you can have a triangle with 3 right angles, with spherical excess.

    This has to go down on record as one of the dumbest things ever written at Cathinfo.
    :facepalm:

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #471 on: March 24, 2017, 11:16:07 PM »
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  • This has to go down on record as one of the dumbest things ever written at Cathinfo.
    :facepalm:
    There are multiple sets of three locations on earth that fit this description. 
    The simplest to describe is one at the north pole, two at the 90th longitude and equator, three at the prime meridian and equator. The angle between each adjacent location is 90 degrees in each case, yet together they form a triangle on the surface of the earth, since you can arrive at the next place by traveling in a straight line over the surface. You get from two to three by going due east. 
    That can only happen on a globe, and it cannot happen on a "flat" earth. 
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #472 on: March 24, 2017, 11:19:35 PM »
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  • Here's a video with two simple experiments you can do at home, with a clear sky.



    If you really want to know the truth, you can do these two experiments yourself and then you will know. Of course, flat earthers don't like to know the truth (apparently) so you won't do them, correct? 

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #473 on: March 24, 2017, 11:41:56 PM »
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  • Interestingly, when Mohammedans post replies at these video sites, they say Allah has revealed the earth is flat, and that's what Moslems believe: 

    Quote
    Allah said in the Koran name of God the Merciful, the Compassionate. And the earth, how it is spread. There are many signs in the Koran says
    .. Did not make the earth a cradle. And the earth after that they spread the .ohua who spread out the earth and placed therein firm collapsed and all the fruits and make a couple where two blurred Night that day in that are signs for those who reflect ..
    The God who made you a carpet on the ground .. and the earth and Tahaha. There are many signs speak for Earth
    Who wants to know the real shape of the earth, Phil read the Koran verses which speak of the ground in the Koran because the God who created the earth, he said the earth was flat, not spherical thank you
    Quote
    I am a Muslim and the Koran of Islam and the Koran says so and the koran  word of God, and God knows the shape of the ground more than any scientist in the universe either NASA or other
    Have you flat-earthers considered that you agree with Moslems more than you do with Christians? 

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #474 on: March 25, 2017, 12:17:07 AM »
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  • ho ho.
    Neil are you are aware that by now you have lost almost all credibility? You can't respond to our responses.

    you know, I have this image you with an angry look on your face, frantically looking up all the anti-flat earth videos on youtube you can find.

    You are totally uncritical in your analysis of these videos. That's why you don't respond to our responses to them.

    About the first video, he states that there is speherical excess, but doesn't give us any practical examples or experience of engineers who have done it. It exists only in a textbook.

    Here is an interview with an engineer of many years experience who says that they do not in practice measure curvature at all.



    By the way, are you aware that engineers discount curvature for the first 20km squared? very convenient.


    Another mistake he made in his video was talking about the dip every 69 miles. I'm sorry but that is beyond idiotic in his analysis. You can get the forumula for curvature with one simple google search.

    8 inches per mile squared. If you don't square it, you end up with a straight line. Think about it.

    I get the feeling in talking to neil that I am talking to one of these chat bots. No matter what you say, it will just come back to the default answer. Poor guy. He needs prayers.

    I'll respond to the second video if I get time.

    You have made a number of typos, I guess. But I'm presuming they were accidental. Maybe that's a mistake of my own, I don't know.

    In any event, the guy you refer to in the video who claims to be an "engineer" is faking it because all engineers know there are two grades or degrees of surveying, the lower one of which does not consider the curvature of the earth because it's too small. The higher one deals with larger distances like the perimeter of a state or a national park or the southwest USA or an entire continent, and that HAS to consider the curvature or else they'll have incorrect data.  

    In California, since the state is so large north and south, there are three benchmarks for real estate because if they used only one the error would be too much for accuracy of property lines. If the earth were flat, they would not need more than one benchmark for real estate property descriptions. Every deed of property in Calif. has on it the name of the benchmark used in the description.

    I know it is of no use, but AGAIN, if you could please try (I know it's so hard for you) to refrain from personal insult, it would be a big help. But on second thought, go ahead and continue to post how you think I must look or how I must think or how I must feel, or why I've done something or not in your estimation, because that way you expose your own character for all to see.

    But if you'd like to make a case for yourself, then measure the angle between the sun and moon at the next quarter moon, which will be on April 3rd, as the video I posted above describes. Come back here, if you are capable that is, and post what your measurement was. Take your measurement in the late afternoon about a half hour before sunset, when you'll find the moon directly overhead and slightly to the north. Let's see if you can do something constructive for a change, instead of just complaining as if you were a woman.
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #475 on: March 25, 2017, 10:32:07 AM »
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  • Interestingly, when Mohammedans post replies at these video sites, they say Allah has revealed the earth is flat, and that's what Moslems believe:
    Have you flat-earthers considered that you agree with Moslems more than you do with Christians? 


    :jester: :laugh1: :laugh2: :fryingpan:
    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."


    Offline Meg

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #476 on: March 25, 2017, 10:35:29 AM »
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  • :jester: :laugh1: :laugh2: :fryingpan:
    Truth is Eternal and Neil,

    Could it be that since the ancient Hebrew cosmology believed in a flat earth (according to OT scripture), and since the Muslims borrow quite heavily from the Old Testament, that this means that they believe as the ancient Hebrews rightly believed?

    Though I seriously doubt that most or even many Muslims really believe in a flat earth.

    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #477 on: March 25, 2017, 12:18:06 PM »
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  • Truth is Eternal and Neil,

    Could it be that since the ancient Hebrew cosmology believed in a flat earth (according to OT scripture), and since the Muslims borrow quite heavily from the Old Testament, that this means that they believe as the ancient Hebrews rightly believed?

    Though I seriously doubt that most or even many Muslims really believe in a flat earth.
    The earth is definitely flat, along with Neil's arguments.
    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."

    Offline FlatEarthInquisitor

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #478 on: March 25, 2017, 01:59:30 PM »
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  • You have made a number of typos, I guess. But I'm presuming they were accidental. Maybe that's a mistake of my own, I don't know.

    In any event, the guy you refer to in the video who claims to be an "engineer" is faking it because all engineers know there are two grades or degrees of surveying, the lower one of which does not consider the curvature of the earth because it's too small. The higher one deals with larger distances like the perimeter of a state or a national park or the southwest USA or an entire continent, and that HAS to consider the curvature or else they'll have incorrect data. 

    In California, since the state is so large north and south, there are three benchmarks for real estate because if they used only one the error would be too much for accuracy of property lines. If the earth were flat, they would not need more than one benchmark for real estate property descriptions. Every deed of property in Calif. has on it the name of the benchmark used in the description.

    I know it is of no use, but AGAIN, if you could please try (I know it's so hard for you) to refrain from personal insult, it would be a big help. But on second thought, go ahead and continue to post how you think I must look or how I must think or how I must feel, or why I've done something or not in your estimation, because that way you expose your own character for all to see.

    But if you'd like to make a case for yourself, then measure the angle between the sun and moon at the next quarter moon, which will be on April 3rd, as the video I posted above describes. Come back here, if you are capable that is, and post what your measurement was. Take your measurement in the late afternoon about a half hour before sunset, when you'll find the moon directly overhead and slightly to the north. Let's see if you can do something constructive for a change, instead of just complaining as if you were a woman.

    Good to see you are responding to me. Though not substantially. You still have not answered where hundreds of feet of that mountain came from. They're suppose to be behind the curve.

    The video for anyone not up to speed




    Do you realise, that ultimately anything to do with the sky cannot disprove a proof of the earth? Our proofs are principally based on the earth. That why we are flat EARTHers.

    I wasn't insulting at all. It is you who are insulting by talking down to us constantly.

    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #479 on: March 25, 2017, 06:32:40 PM »
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  • Good to see you are responding to me. Though not substantially. You still have not answered where hundreds of feet of that mountain came from. They're suppose to be behind the curve.

    The video for anyone not up to speed




    Do you realise, that ultimately anything to do with the sky cannot disprove a proof of the earth? Our proofs are principally based on the earth. That why we are flat EARTHers.

    I wasn't insulting at all. It is you who are insulting by talking down to us constantly.

    I have a bridge to sell you!

    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.

     

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