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Author Topic: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat  (Read 93382 times)

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Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #570 on: April 15, 2017, 07:45:30 AM »
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    Two days ago the full moon had no shadow on the underside as it would have if the sun were shining across a "flat" earth, but today, the moon is starting to show a shadow on the western side, and a little on top as well.
    .
    There was no shadow under the moon nor anywhere else on the edges of the moon, two days ago, and the absence of shadow under the moon continues to be the case during the first quarter, as the moon approaches the new moon phase.
    .
    As the moon approaches its first quarter (which will happen next week) the shadow on TOP of the moon gradually grows, but there is no shadow on the moon's bottom side (closest to earth). The quarter moon appears to be reclining toward the rising sun. If the earth were "flat" with the sun making its rounds over the surface of earth, the sun would not be shining from below the horizon, for it would have to be positioned below the earth's surface. But we know that when it's night here in the western hemisphere it's daylight in India and Asia, which is not on the bottom of a "flat" earth model. The angle of the sun's light comes from an impossible angle in the "flat" earth model, showing that it cannot be the truth.
    .
    Incidentally, the Western (Roman) Church has placed Easter in the week following the first full moon of spring for good reason. This was the case when Our Lord was crucified, under a full moon. Since a total solar eclipse can only occur during a new moon, we will never have such an eclipse in Easter Week, just as it could not have happened on Good Friday. Thus it is total fabrication to say that when the earth was darkened for 3 hours that day that the cause of that darkness was an eclipse of the sun. Such an eclipse could only happen two weeks later during the new moon phase. Besides, a total solar eclipse does not darken the whole world nor does it ever last for 3 hours. The longest total solar eclipse is no more than about 7 minutes.
    .


    You're a very strange man Mr obstat. you have been told repeatedly that something in the sky cannot prove that the earth is round, because our proofs are of the earth.

    Remember that we deny that ANYone has been to space. We deny that there are galaxies millions of miles away. We say that the stars are just lights, a few thousand miles away, as are the sun and moon. All under a dome.

    The precise details of what causes eclipses are unknown to us because we have not traveled up there to see more closely.

    What we cannot accept is someone saying to us that the earth is a ball 25000 miles in circuмference. Which is what you say. You have no proof for it, and yet you believe it anyway. Your "proofs" are extrinsic and not intrinsic. Not scientific, because they are based on lies. If your earth is round why can't you combat us based on the curvature, instead of going off into the sky? You have just again ignored another post on the lack of curvature.

    You didn't even try this time to say anything against it. Because you know it's right.

    So to be clear. WE DON'T KNOW THE CAUSES OF ECLIPSES AND THAT DOES NOT DISPROVE THE FLAT EARTH. WE SPECULATE, BUT THAT IS ALL.

    It is a good thing we can admit what we don't know. Our scientific system is coherent because it is based on solid foundation. Yours is based on a lie, namely that there is curvature and builds lies upon that.



    "Vir insipiens non cognoscet et stultus non intelleget haec" Psalm 91


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #571 on: April 15, 2017, 06:40:59 PM »
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    You can repeat nonsense all you want and it doesn't make it true. Something in the sky CAN prove the earth is round, but you have to LOOK at it first and you have to THINK logically instead of narrow-mindedly with your false premise first and foremost, which is what all flat-earthers insist on doing. When someone won't stoop to your ridiculous level of illogic and nonsense, you hurl epithets of insult. 
    .
    So you have nothing objectively verifiable to offer. And you refuse to participate in any such objective verification, by simply looking at the moon.
    .

    You're a very strange man Mr obstat. you have been told repeatedly that something in the sky cannot prove that the earth is round, because our proofs are of the earth.

    Remember that we deny that ANYone has been to space. We deny that there are galaxies millions of miles away. We say that the stars are just lights, a few thousand miles away, as are the sun and moon. All under a dome.

    The precise details of what causes eclipses are unknown to us because we have not traveled up there to see more closely.

    What we cannot accept is someone saying to us that the earth is a ball 25000 miles in circuмference. Which is what you say. You have no proof for it, and yet you believe it anyway. Your "proofs" are extrinsic and not intrinsic. Not scientific, because they are based on lies. If your earth is round why can't you combat us based on the curvature, instead of going off into the sky? You have just again ignored another post on the lack of curvature.

    You didn't even try this time to say anything against it. Because you know it's right.

    So to be clear. WE DON'T KNOW THE CAUSES OF ECLIPSES AND THAT DOES NOT DISPROVE THE FLAT EARTH. WE SPECULATE, BUT THAT IS ALL.

    It is a good thing we can admit what we don't know. Our scientific system is coherent because it is based on solid foundation. Yours is based on a lie, namely that there is curvature and builds lies upon that.
    .
    This one is really special. It shows what you're made of:
    .
    Quote
    The precise details of what causes eclipses are unknown to us because we have not traveled up there to see more closely.

    WE DON'T KNOW THE CAUSES OF ECLIPSES AND THAT DOES NOT DISPROVE THE FLAT EARTH. WE SPECULATE, BUT THAT IS ALL.
    .
    So why don't you "speculateabout the timing and location of the eclipse in August, and defend your speculation by showing how it's based on your flat-earthism? 
    .
    Answer: You don't because you can't.
    .
    We don't have to travel up there to see anything more closely.  What we need to see is perfectly viewable from where we are. Besides, even if we WERE to "travel up there to see more closely" you would no doubt complain that all the photographs were CGI and Photoshop, and that the witnesses are lying just to promote the Freemasonic Pagan nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr agenda.
    .
    You claim that what causes eclipses are unknown because your flat-earth nonsense is incapable of being true with the evidence of eclipses before our eyes.  Your refusal to take what God has given to us for our observation and simply reason out the necessary consequences of what we consistently see, proves that you are not only ignorant but are quite comfortable remaining in your ignorance. 
    .
    How can total solar eclipses be predicted time and time again with incredible accuracy if the theory behind the predictions is all wrong? There is another one forecast for late August this year. Do you want to go on record saying that it is all fake and will not occur as predicted, traversing diagonally across the central United States passing over St. Louis Missouri?
    .
    Are you aware that hotels are taking reservations for this event? Why would they do that if flat-earthism were a fact? Where is there a flat-earther who can predict solar eclipses? Are you going to show up and demonstrate in the streets of St. Louis complaining that eclipses do not testify to your flat-earthism therefore they're impossible?

    https://www.greatamericaneclipse.com/missouri/


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    The very minutes and seconds of the eclipse duration based on the observers' precise location is predicted months in advance. Do you honestly think this is possible using your flat-earth premise of where the sun and moon are located in the sky??
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    More personal insults from flat-earthers? Pile them up. Your actions speak volumes. 
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    You're accusing me of "lies" but all I am saying is, "look at the moon." 
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    You say say we "can't go up there" but I'm not talking about going up there, all I'm saying is look at the moon from where you stand. You are very uncomfortable with that because it's something that you don't want to do: make a first hand observation.
    .
    You have chosen to be ignorant even when given the challenge to observe first hand and report your observation, so you fall into the second category of ignorant ones -- those who have been told and have chosen to remain ignorant.
    .
    You remind me of some Moslems I know. Maybe you'd be much more at home with Mohammedans.
    .
    This site is offered by booking reservations service showing you a map so you can plan your visit for seeing the eclipse: 
    https://explorestlouis.com/discover/2017-total-solar-eclipse/

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #572 on: April 15, 2017, 06:55:00 PM »
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  • .
    TO ANY FLAT-EARTHER:

    Please post here your explanation for how the August 2017 eclipse
    of the sun shown by the following diagram
    is something that can be explained presuming
    that the earth is "flat"
    and the sun and moon move in quasi-spirals above the earth's surface.

    Alternatively, 
    if you think the following diagram is somehow fake
    or false or unreliable,
    please explain WHY you think it's wrong
    and describe what you think it OUGHT to say
    to make it reliable. 



    Explain for example the DIRECTION that the shadow
    cast by the moon on the earth will move:
    Will it move from west to east, or from east to west,
    and WHY. 

    Why does the shadow move in that direction
    presuming the earth is flat?

    And how can the precise location of the moon's 
    shadow be predicted presuming a "flat" earth?
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #573 on: April 15, 2017, 07:18:19 PM »
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    This is really cool:
    .

    .
    You can see the blue shadow of the night fading off the left or western side (that's sunrise in the Pacific Ocean), and then you can see the night time shadow emerging in the eastern Atlantic Ocean where the eclipse shadow fades away at sunset there.
    .
    Notice only a small speck of black (the umbra) in the middle of the penumbra, indicating how small the umbra is, the area of totality, compared to the much larger penumbra. The cause of this difference is a function of the relative sizes of the moon and the sun, and how close the moon is to earth compared to how far the sun is from earth. 
    .
    The precise distances from earth to moon and earth to sun change by very small amounts constantly, so whether there is going to be any umbra during a given eclipse is a very delicate question. If the moon is too far from the earth the umbra will only be from the moon tapering down to a point somewhere short of the earth's surface, and so an observer would have to be in an airplane or spacecraft to be in the umbra, and anyone trying to see the eclipse on the earth's surface would only be able to see the antumbra instead, which is seen during an annular eclipse.
    .
    The figures they are using are very precise. But in round numbers the moon is 240,000 miles away and the sun is 92 million miles away. That is how they can make this animation IN ADVANCE of the fact. 
    .
    If you don't think that it will actually take place in this manner, then it is your duty to post witnesses and establish that the eclipse penumbra and focus do NOT actually traverse the earth with this appearance.
    .
    Notice how the penumbra is in the shape of a circle shadow moving across the face of a globe earth. Why would this shape occur in this way if the earth were flat? If it were, then the shadow of the moon would not appear oblong or pear-shaped at the beginning and at the end of the eclipse, where it stretches out over the increasingly steep curvature of the globe earth.
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #574 on: April 15, 2017, 07:25:58 PM »
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  • .
    By the way, I just recalled something a flat-earther said before, that we can't be sure the eclipse is being caused by the moon moving in between the sun and the earth. 
    .
    That is just about the dumbest thing you can say about a total solar eclipse. 
    .
    So if you want to show how well you understand flat-earth eclipses, post here and explain yourself. 
    .
    Go ahead!
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #575 on: April 15, 2017, 07:41:14 PM »
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    This one is even MORE cool, but it's by NASA, and we all KNOW how FAKE that must be.
    So don't watch it whatever you do!!!
    .
    Click here
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #576 on: April 15, 2017, 07:49:49 PM »
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  • Well, that didn't work. Try this:
    .

    .
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    Offline wilders

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #577 on: April 16, 2017, 10:39:06 AM »
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  • Yes Mr. Obstat is strange.
    He does not seem to answer questions he does not like. He is attacking persons.
    Eclipses do not have to be cause by the shadows of the earth, or moon or sun.
    This doesn't make sense to a globalist who thinks he has the explanation for everything. In fact, he has a lot of lies.
    There is not curvature on the earth. Anyone who is honest can see that, and study that, as had been pointed out on this forum.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #578 on: April 17, 2017, 12:48:54 AM »
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  • The moon is approaching its last quarter now.
    .
    Observe how it rises later in the evening, with the illuminated side angled downward.
    .
    The sun would have to be shining on it from inside the earth to light up the moon with that appearance.
    .
    But obviously, the sun cannot shine from inside the earth.
    .
    Therefore, the sun must be shining on the moon from the opposite side of the earth.
    .
    That is not what the "flat" earth premise allows. It demands that the sun is always ABOVE the earth, and we can easily see by looking at the moon that is not what is going on.
    .
    As the moon gets closer to its last quarter, it appears closer in its orbit to the sun's position every day.
    .
    The stars behind the moon move in the same general direction, but they traverse the night sky faster than the moon does, so every night the moon appears more toward the east compared to the stars.
    .
    These are all objective observations we can make, and to be honest, all these facts have to be considered for us to know the truth of what is going on in the heavens, even if we remain here on earth making these observations. It does not require that we travel into space to get a second point of view on everything, as some flat-earthers are wont to claim.
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #579 on: April 17, 2017, 12:59:51 AM »
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  • The eclipse coming in August is part of a long list of them going on for many centuries:

    Saros series 145[edit]
    Quote
    This solar eclipse is a part of Saros cycle 145, repeating every 18 years, 11 days, containing 77 events. The series started with partial solar eclipse on January 4, 1639, and reached a first annular eclipse on June 6, 1891. It was a hybrid event on June 17, 1909, and total eclipses from June 29, 1927 through September 9, 2648. The series ends at member 77 as a partial eclipse on April 17, 3009. The longest eclipse will occur on June 25, 2522, with a maximum duration of totality of 7 minutes, 12 seconds. [33]
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    Offline wilders

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #580 on: April 17, 2017, 05:59:52 AM »
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  • the moon can have it's own light. (this would be in greater conformity with Sacred Scripture.)
    And most flat earthers do not say that the sun goes under the earth, but over and around.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #581 on: April 17, 2017, 11:16:33 PM »
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  • .
    Tomorrow, Tuesday, April 18th, the moon rises in the east in my area at 1:10 am and sets at 11:44 am.
    .
    The moon's last quarter (as seen from UTC-7) occurs at 3:00 am Wednesday, April 19th, 2017.
    .
    Considering the previous chance we had to measure the angle between the sun and quarter moon, here is an improved plan. Since the sun will not be up at 3 o'clock in the morning when the last quarter will be exactly in view, I'm going to make at least two observations (before and after), at times as close to equal as I can get, from that ideal time.
    .
    For example, if I take a reading at 11:00 am on Tuesday (45 minutes before the moon sets), then the best I can do Wednesday is 12 noon, since the moon sets at 12:38 on the 19th. The first reading will be 16 hours before the quarter moon, and the second reading will be 9 hours after the quarter moon.
    .
    A few measurements before 11:00 am Tuesday, like two hours and one hour before, will give me a good idea of how many degrees the angle changes each hour before the quarter moon. Likewise a few measurements prior to 12:00 pm Wednesday will give me a good idea of how many degrees the angle changes each hour after the quarter moon.
    .
    Since the moon's quarter is at 3:00 am this time, I won't be able to measure the angle to the sun directly, since I am at UTC -7. Someone located in Greenland or Iceland or perhaps Europe will have a better shot at it, since for them, the moon and sun will both be visible at the precise time of the quarter moon.
    .
    Naturally, I expect all the flat-earthers to complain that this is far too complicated. Believe me, astronomers go to a LOT more trouble than this to get measurements. Whereas, flat-earthers typically just moan and complain about how hard it is, while doing nothing constructive.
    .
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    Offline wilders

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #582 on: April 18, 2017, 04:12:49 AM »
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  • No flat earther (at least not me) is dismissing your work. It is very interesting and I credit you for it.
    The problem is that it does not prove or disprove the flat earth.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #583 on: April 19, 2017, 11:25:42 PM »
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  • No flat earther (at least not me) is dismissing your work. It is very interesting and I credit you for it.
    The problem is that it does not prove or disprove the flat earth.
    .
    What I am proposing here is nothing new. There are plenty of observers for many centuries now who have been doing these things, and their observations are instructive, that is, if one bothers to pay attention.
    .
    The scientific method properly followed allows the observer to confirm or deny a hypothesis based on empirical evidence. It cannot define whether something will always be the case in the future -- such as dropping a rock and observing that it falls to the ground even 100 times, does not prove that the rock will ALWAYS fall to the ground in the future; it does, however, support the hypothesis that something must be pulling the rock to the ground.
    .
    I am suggesting that anyone who wants to learn more about the movement of the sun and moon in the sky above, and is also interested to learn what our observations from earth can tell us about the relative distance from earth to the moon compared to earth to the sun, can find out the truth about these things by watching and measuring the angle between the sun and moon during the key phases of the moon: its first and last quarter.
    .
    Today is shown on your calendar as the day of the last quarter moon, April 19th, 2017. However, most calendars do not bother to mention the precise TIME of the day when the last quarter actually was at 100%. A very convenient reference for that time is the Old Farmer's Almanac, for those living in the continental United States and Canada. (The website does not process locations for other places like Europe or South America.)
    .
    Going to the Old Farmer's Almanac website, I found that the last quarter moon took full development at 3:00 am today in my time zone, and another page of the same site has the moon rise at 1:59 am. Therefore, by looking at the moon this morning at 3:00 am (it was low in the eastern sky) I was able to see the moon at its 100% last quarter time. This was interesting for a reason I had not expected to see, which is the fact that the angle of the dividing line between light side and dark side of the moon was not what I had expected to see. This kind of thing often happens while testing a hypothesis -- you observe something surprising, just by reason of your critical attention being paid to something that you simply did not take the time to notice in the past.
    .
    At 3:00 am I could see the moon all right, but I could not yet see the sun, so I could not measure the angle between the two bodies. I had to wait until 8:00 am (5 hours later) before the sun cleared the mountains near me, and at that time I measured an angle of 91 degrees.  That was another surprise, because I had expected a lower figure. Later, at 10:00 I used a different method which I thought would be more accurate, and found the angle to be 89 degrees. Note: this was taken 7 hours AFTER the official quarter moon time in the Almanac. Since the moon's location in the sky is gradually getting closer to the sun this week, it makes sense that the angle would be smaller later in the day, but a difference of 3 degrees seems excessive. So my first measurement was probably questionable. I know this is not very scientific, but I'm using crude devices and there might be that much error in them. In any case I am very certain that the angle was not 80 degrees or 100. It was much closer to 90.
    .
    Two weeks ago when I measured the first quarter, I found the angle to be larger than 90 degrees by as much as 3 degrees. Still this is close to 90 and definitely larger than 80 and less than 100.
    .
    Therefore we are collecting readings that are very close to 90 degrees. I was hoping to have other readers mention what they have found, but no one has posted what the angle is they measured between the sun and the moon.
    .
    Once someone else posts then we can go on to the next phase. But not having any participation makes it kind of pointless to proceed. 
    .
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    Offline wilders

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #584 on: April 20, 2017, 03:30:41 AM »
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  • Neil,
    We would have an incentive to participate if you could tell us where this is going. MW participated in your experiment, but when she asked where this was all going, you just ignored her.
    Not very honest really of you.