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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: LaramieHirsch on October 11, 2024, 09:03:13 AM
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I’m wondering this morning: is there anywhere a clear-cut explanation to the American People that the Jews are NO LONGER the Chosen People? Just a clear, apologetical argument?
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Jєωιѕн people and many Christians stopped being chosen when they are breaking His commandments while worshipping idols.
Everyone needs prayers; not weapons, soldiers and money.
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OP: No shortage thereof. The problem is that people don't want to hear it. There are various reasons, depending on which audience of goyim you're dealing with.
But look on the bright side: Take that refusal to hear you as a helpful little filter guiding you forward.
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They stopped being the chosen when they rejected God in Christ Jesus. Pretty simple
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Does anyone have any links to these articles?
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Does anyone have any links to these articles?
Well there's the SS News subforum here, but that can get daunting...:laugh2:
Yet one can't go wrong with the theological and historical explanations laid out in detail by Fr. James Mawdsley. Those won't provide an instant soundbite for you to use as apologetics, but they'll lay the groundwork in your mind.
https://www.youtube.com/@ScriptureandTraditionFrJM
(https://www.youtube.com/@ScriptureandTraditionFrJM)https://x.com/FrJMawdsley
(https://x.com/FrJMawdsley)https://rumble.com/c/c-6268811
(https://rumble.com/c/c-6268811)The first thing you need to do, though, is pray to the Holy Ghost. Here's the Novena: http://www.traditionalcatholic.net/Tradition/Prayer/Holy_Ghost_Novena.html (http://www.traditionalcatholic.net/Tradition/Prayer/Holy_Ghost_Novena.html)
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The Mass for Passion Sunday has this caption in my Missal:
The Mass of Passion Sunday is full of the thought of the Passion of Jesus and of the infidelity of the Jews, whose place in the Kingdom of God was taken by those who were baptized, that is to say by the Catholics.
(https://i.imgur.com/hziAFZx.jpeg)
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In the Passions according to St Matthew read on Palm Sunday and St Mark on Tuesday of Holy Week the Evangelists record the veil in the temple being torn in two from top to bottom when Christ died on the Cross, Mt 27: 51, Mk 15:28
The veil in the temple was before the holiest place in the temple where the Presence of God, shekinah, dwelt until the time Christ died. The tearing of the veil was the ending of the Old Covenant.
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They stopped being the chosen when they rejected God in Christ Jesus. Pretty simple
I agree
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Hi Laramie,
Maybe try searching the forum under replacement theory or supersessionism? The only thing I could find online was a tract by Catholic Answers....and of course it taught the complete opposite of Catholic teaching.
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The Parable of the Wicked Tenants
(Mark 12:1-12 (https://biblehub.com/drbc/mark/12.htm); Luke 20:9-18 (https://biblehub.com/drbc/luke/20.htm#9))
33 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-33.htm)Hear ye another parable. There was a man, an householder, who planted a vineyard and made a hedge round about it and dug in it a press and built a tower and let it out to husbandmen and went into a strange country. 34 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-34.htm)And when the time of the fruits drew nigh, he sent his servants to the husbandmen that they might receive the fruits thereof. 35 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-35.htm)And the husbandmen laying hands on his servants, beat one and killed another and stoned another. 36 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-36.htm)Again he sent other servants, more than the former; and they did to them in like manner. 37 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-37.htm)And last of all he sent to them his son, saying: They will reverence my son. 38 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-38.htm)But the husbandmen seeing the son, said among themselves: This is the heir: come, let us kill him, and we shall have his inheritance. 39 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-39.htm)And taking him, they cast him forth out of the vineyard and killed him. 40 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-40.htm)When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do to those husbandmen? 41 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-41.htm)They say to him: He will bring those evil men to an evil end and let out his vineyard to other husbandmen that shall render him the fruit in due season.
42 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-42.htm)Jesus saith to them: Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? By the Lord this has been done; and it is wonderful in our eyes.
43 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-43.htm)Therefore I say to you that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof. 44 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-44.htm)And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it shall grind him to powder.
45 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-45.htm)And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they knew that he spoke of them. 46 (https://biblehub.com/catholic/matthew/21-46.htm)And seeking to lay hands on him, they feared the multitudes, because they held him as a prophet.
Haydock Bible Commentary
Ver. 33. A certain master of a family, &c. This master is God; the vineyard, the Jєωs; the husbandmen, the Jєωιѕн priests; the servants, God’s prophets, sent from time to time: the son, called (Mark xii. 6,) his only and most dear son, is our Saviour Jesus Christ, whom they persecuted to death. (Witham) — By this parable, our Saviour teaches the Jєωs that the providence of God had wonderfully watched over them from the beginning, that nothing had been omitted to promote their salvation, and that notwithstanding his prophets had been put to most cruel deaths, still the Almighty was not turned away from them, but had at length sent down his only Son, who should suffer at their hands the inexpressible ignominies and tortures of his cross and passion. (St. Chrysostom, hom. lxix.)
Ver. 37. They will reverence, &c. This is not said, as if God were ignorant what the Jєωs would do to his only begotten Son, since in this very place he declares that they would condemn him to death; but, to shew what they ought to have done, and what he had a right to expect from them. (Nicholas of Lyra.)
Ver. 38. Heir. From this text, it appears that the princes of the Jєωs knew Jesus to be the Messias, and that it was only through envy and malice they were so blinded as not to acknowledge him for the Son of God. When, therefore, the apostle says, (1 Corinthians ii. 8,) If they had known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; this, it is probable, must be understood of the common people, since we can hardly believe that the princes of the people were ignorant of it, as Christ had so repeatedly inculcated this truth, that he even says himself they had no excuse, and were only actuated by hatred against him and his Father. (St. John xv. 22.) (Tirinus) — Inheritance, &c. It appears from St. John xi. that one of the motives why the Jєωs killed our Saviour was, lest if they let him live, all men should believe, and the Romans should come and destroy their nation. But the very means they took to secure their kingdom to themselves, hastened their downfall, and eventually caused their ruin; since in punishment of their crucifying Jesus Christ, their city and state were completely ruined under the Roman emperors Titus and Vespasian. (Nicholas of Lyra.)
Ver. 41. He will bring those evil men to an evil end. This answer was made by some of them. Yet St. Luke (xx. 16,) tells us, that others among them, (whom we may take to be the Scribes and Pharisees) cried out, God forbid; seeing well enough that this was a prediction of their future ruin. (Witham) — If we compare this text with St. Luke, it will appear that it was from the midst of the people that this answer was given, which was confirmed by Jesus Christ, and at which the high priests were so indignant, because they saw clearly it must fall upon themselves. (Bible de Vence)
Ver. 42. The head of the corner. By these words, (Psalm cxvii,) which the Jєωs themselves expounded of their Messias, Christ shewed them, that although they, who should have been the architects, had rejected him, yet he should be the chief corner-stone to unite the Jєωs and the Gentiles, converted into one Christian Church, militant on earth and triumphant in heaven. See Acts iv. 11. (Witham) — St. Augustine remarks, that this parable was addressed not only to the opponents of Christ’s authority, but likewise to the people.
Ver. 43. The kingdom of God shall be taken from you. By this dreadful conclusion he tells them in plain terms, that they shall be forsaken, and punished for their blindness and obstinacy. (Witham)
Ver. 45. They understood that he spoke of them. This parable, though immediately addressed to the Jєωs, contains an admirable instruction for Christians. For, what the Jєωs have suffered for their wickedness and ingratitude, has also been the fate of many Christian kingdoms, and the mournful lot of many once flourishing happy churches, whose candlesticks are removed, and light extinct. The same conduct God observes with regard to particular persons, in punishment of their repeatedly abusing his graces; he at last withdraws them, and leaves the culprit to himself, and to the miserable consequences of this merited privation of grace.
https://haydockcommentary.com/matthew-21
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I’m sort of being confronted by Protestants. Which basically means neither any use of Christendom’s experiences, nor even history itself, suffices.
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I’m sort of being confronted by Protestants. Which basically means neither any use of Christendom’s experiences, nor even history itself, suffices.
In that case I'd suggest reading up on the origins of the Scofield Bible. There are entries about it on CathInfo, yet you may get a more comprehensive view by looking for Protestant apologetics to see where the weaknesses in their arguments are.
The unavoidable difficulty will be that Protestants are very skilled at proof-texting, and they'll be able to dredge up a comeback -- legitimate or not -- to whatever you give them.
The sad part is that your strongest argument from a Catholic stance would be with reference to the Crucifixion, for example in the rending of the temple veil (as with Philip's reply (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/(((they)))-are-not-the-chosen-people/msg955919/#msg955919) above). But Protestants tend to resist Crucifixion-based arguments as a "once-and-for-all" event rather than what Catholics acknowledge occurs in every Sacrifice of the Mass.
Two more sets of ideas, both perhaps too indirect for any immediate answer, yet still possibly thought-provoking as to how to proceed.
First, there's a Catholic Twitter account that spends a lot of time sparring with Protestants on a range of topics: https://x.com/MrCasey62 (https://x.com/MrCasey62) and another of an ex-Protestant convert to Catholicism: https://x.com/JoshuaTCharles (https://x.com/JoshuaTCharles) . They may or may not align with your views on Traditionalism, but there's still the common adversary.
Second, then there's a well-researched and referenced book by Brant Pitre (https://www.brantpitre.com/biography-cv) titled The Case for Jesus (https://catholicproductions.com/collections/brant-pitre/products/the-case-for-jesus-the-reliability-of-the-gospels-and-the-Jєωιѕн-roots-of-jesus-divinity), especially Chapter 8, "Jesus and the Jєωιѕн Messiah." Much of the book is aimed at atheists, but that chapter in particular makes use of Pitre's training in the OT.
Alas, I don't have the silver bullet for you to deploy at them. That's also why I suggested prayer to the Holy Ghost for guidance. Being confronted by the unreceptive (who have their own agenda to preserve) can make a person feel cornered. The benefit of prayer is not only an increase in circuмspection but also that you'll be more safely aligned, by way of prudence and humility and fortitude, with what The Church teaches. It may also turn out that prayer leads you to conclude that this isn't a confrontation worth pursuing, but time will tell.
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I’m sort of being confronted by Protestants. Which basically means neither any use of Christendom’s experiences, nor even history itself, suffices.
PS: On second thought, then it looks like a modern-day angle is inescapable.
If you go after Scofield, then you'll be facing dispensationalism, which leads to arguments over foreign policy and Zionism, ad infinitum. Instead you could deflect and ask them, in an argument from charity and the Spiritual Works of Mercy, why not convert the Jews, and see how they respond. (In that, checking the Fr. Mawdsley links could help.) Just an idea.
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Does anyone have any links to these articles?
https://archive.is/vdJGV
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Laramie,
Novus Ordo Watch just put out a "Tradcast Express" about this topic. It is a "refutation of 'Abp.' Anthony Fisher of Sydney, Australia, who claimed in a lecture delivered at a ѕуηαgσgυє that saying that Christians have replaced Jews as God's Chosen People is "heresy".
Libsyn Directory (https://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/33592957)
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Laramie,
Novus Ordo Watch just put out a "Tradcast Express" about this topic. It is a "refutation of 'Abp.' Anthony Fisher of Sydney, Australia, who claimed in a lecture delivered at a ѕуηαgσgυє that saying that Christians have replaced Jєωs as God's Chosen People is "heresy".
Libsyn Directory (https://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/33592957)
Hilarious! "Abp." Fisher versus 2 millennia of "heretics," Doctors, Saints, Popes, and Councils: https://archive.is/nbt6S