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Author Topic: "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film  (Read 2908 times)

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Offline mw2016

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"Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
« on: November 28, 2016, 04:00:03 PM »
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  • This is excellent. These people are, I believe, mostly Protestant, but they discuss the lies of evolution, heliocentrism, and a billions-years-old earth.

    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/AeIGrEtPMmE[/youtube]


    Offline cassini

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    "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
    « Reply #1 on: November 30, 2016, 06:03:58 AM »
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  • Absolutely marvellous truth.

    Herein lies the story of the demise of belief in the Triune God on earth, the cause of millions of souls probably going to hell and yet it generates little comment. This I do not understand. We whinge about and react to the smallest attacks on some aspects to the Catholic Faith but blank when it comes to the greatest heresy and apostasy to engulf mankind.


    Offline mw2016

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    "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
    « Reply #2 on: November 30, 2016, 10:08:02 AM »
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  • I couldn't agree more, and I am stunned your comment would get even a single "thumbs-down."

    This film mentions, more than once, the facts that the Bible is entirely true and literally true and is so because God cannot deceive.

    But, yet, you'll still see even Trad Catholics who will deny that the earth was created in seven literal days, or that evolution is incompatible with Genesis.

    Offline klasG4e

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    "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
    « Reply #3 on: November 30, 2016, 11:34:57 AM »
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  • mw2016
    Quote
    This is excellent. These people are, I believe, mostly Protestant, but they discuss the lies of evolution, heliocentrism, and a billions-years-old earth.

    I did not give the thumbs down.  I enjoyed the video, but I want to point out that unfortunately it appears that these same folks push flat earth in other of their videos.

    Robert Sungenis and others have totally discredited the flat earth idea, an idea which seemed to really pick up a whole lot of steam once the idea of geocentrism started making some big waves within the last few years.  I can't say for sure, but it's almost as if there was all of a sudden a flat earth push as a way to do a back handed discrediting of geocentrism.

    Offline Matto

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    "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
    « Reply #4 on: November 30, 2016, 12:27:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: mw2016
    But, yet, you'll still see even Trad Catholics who will deny that the earth was created in seven literal days, or that evolution is incompatible with Genesis.

    I do not trust any Catholics who believe in the big bang and or evolution. Including priests, bishops and sadly even popes. I would give more credence to a conservatice protestant who believes in Biblical creation than a supposed Catholic who believes in a billions of year old universe.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline John Grace

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    "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
    « Reply #5 on: November 30, 2016, 12:54:48 PM »
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  • Quote
    I do not trust any Catholics who believe in the big bang and or evolution. Including priests, bishops and sadly even popes. I would give more credence to a conservatice protestant who believes in Biblical creation than a supposed Catholic who believes in a billions of year old universe.


    As Catholics we know that Catholicism is the true religion and only way to heaven. Our activities must always be focused on truth. What matters is truth. That is why we should support the likes of Bishop Williamson.

    I correspond with a few non Catholics like the Pike family. One of their womenfolk was co-presenting a recent show with Eric Hovind. As a Catholic I believe in Biblical creation and the earth is young. The evidence is there. Many Catholics believe in evolution because they are not well informed. The comment by cassini is a good one.

    As Catholics though we should know the teaching of the church. It comes back to truth. If people can't discern there is a danger if sharing a protestant source. Probably best to outline  if something is not Catholic.

    Offline John Grace

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    "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
    « Reply #6 on: November 30, 2016, 01:02:56 PM »
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  • I am not sure if the book "Creation, Evolution, and Catholicism" by Thomas McFadden has ever been discussed on this forum. I have it as a PDF.

    Offline cassini

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    « Reply #7 on: December 01, 2016, 12:15:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    I am not sure if the book "Creation, Evolution, and Catholicism" by Thomas McFadden has ever been discussed on this forum. I have it as a PDF.


    I was once a heliocentrist evolutionists. That is how I was educated as most were/are.

    Then I met Tom McFadden at the latin Mass in Dublin who gave me a book on evolution to read. It took me ten minutes to see I had been hoaxed. Tom went back to America and must have written his own book. Paul Ellwangher then showed me heliocentrism was also a fraud.

    Here is his book: http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.ie/2015/12/book-review-creation-evolution-and.html

    It says:

    "Some time ago I was graciously provided with a review copy of Creation, Evolution, and Catholicism: A Discussion for Those Who Believe by Thomas McFadden...................................................

    But I think the greatest asset of this book was in its chapter on Humani Generis. It is widely known that Humani Generis, Pius XII's 1950 encyclical, remains the last authoritative statement of the Magisterium on evolution. It is often repeated that this encyclical "allowed" Catholics to believe in theistic evolution of a preexisting human body so long as they maintained some other points (reality of original sin, special creation of the soul). This encyclical allegedly "opened the door" for the acceptance of theistic evolution within Catholicism.

    Mr. McFadden strongly disputes this point. Through a rigorous analysis of the text and the meanings of different terms employed by Pius, he demonstrates that Pius XII never intended the broad acceptance of theistic evolution among Catholics, nor did he "permit" it to be held as a viable theory of human origins. I will not recapitulate Mr. McFadden's arguments here, but it suffices to say that it was refreshing to read something that actually dug into the text of Pius XII rather than just repeating what others have said..................................................................

    If there is one issue I took with the book - and I say this tentatively because there is so much other good stuff in here - it is that the author will often cite Cardinal Ratzinger/Benedict XVI as a support for traditional Creationism against evolution. It is my opinion that McFadden misunderstood what Benedict is saying (which is easy to do, as Benedict is extremely nuanced in his verbiage). Benedict does oppose the kind of evolutionary compromise represented by Humani Generis; but this is not because Benedict supported Creationism, rather because he affirmed something more Teilhardian and more evolutionary than the Humani Generis compromise. Theistic evolution was not too evolutionary or Benedict; rather it was not evolutionary enough. We have docuмented this in our article Pius XII, Teilhard, and Ratzinger.

    But, as the author pointed out to me when I discussed this with him, even if this is the case, the statements of Benedict against evolution still hold value on their own, even if Benedict's own position is problematic. Benedict is a potent adversary against a simplistic theistic evolution, despite his own theological baggage. I would certainly still recommend the book. Mr. McFadden has done the Church an excellent service. Anyone interested in the debate about evolution should get a copy of this work, especially those involved in catechesis at the parish level. I plan on hanging on to this book and have already pulled it out for reference in my private reading several times."
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    Pope Pius XII was a BIG BANG EVOLUTIONIST WHO MEANT EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID IN HUMANI GENERIS, that the body of Adam could have evolved..

    Ratzinger/pope Benedict XVI was another evolutionist who wrote 'In the Beginning' a book that is so evolutionist he denies Original Sin was the personal sdin of Adam and Eve.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Then I met Gerard Keane (RIP), who also wrote a book. http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/creation/gjkeane/crreview.html

    Gerry came to Ireland and did a couple of talks here.


    Offline Matto

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    "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
    « Reply #8 on: December 01, 2016, 03:01:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: cassini

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    Pope Pius XII was a BIG BANG EVOLUTIONIST WHO MEANT EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID IN HUMANI GENERIS, that the body of Adam could have evolved..
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I remember when I read a speech Pope Pius XII gave where he praised modern science for unlocking the mysteries of the universe and repeatedly declared his belief that the universe was billions of years old, making a mockery of the traditional belief in a six day creation based on the Bible. It was one of the most shocking experiences I had as a traditional Catholic and made me lose the respect I had for Pope Pius XII.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Alexandria

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    "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
    « Reply #9 on: December 01, 2016, 03:21:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: mw2016
    But, yet, you'll still see even Trad Catholics who will deny that the earth was created in seven literal days, or that evolution is incompatible with Genesis.

    I do not trust any Catholics who believe in the big bang and or evolution. Including priests, bishops and sadly even popes. I would give more credence to a conservatice protestant who believes in Biblical creation than a supposed Catholic who believes in a billions of year old universe.


    I don't either.  I can't tell you how many traditional Catholics I've met uttering the same nonsense as well.

    Offline mw2016

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    « Reply #10 on: December 01, 2016, 05:48:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: cassini

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    Pope Pius XII was a BIG BANG EVOLUTIONIST WHO MEANT EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID IN HUMANI GENERIS, that the body of Adam could have evolved..
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I remember when I read a speech Pope Pius XII gave where he praised modern science for unlocking the mysteries of the universe and repeatedly declared his belief that the universe was billions of years old, making a mockery of the traditional belief in a six day creation based on the Bible. It was one of the most shocking experiences I had as a traditional Catholic and made me lose the respect I had for Pope Pius XII.



    REALLY?! I have never heard this!

    How shocking and utterly unfortunate.


    Offline Matto

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    "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
    « Reply #11 on: December 01, 2016, 05:51:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: mw2016
    Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: cassini

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    Pope Pius XII was a BIG BANG EVOLUTIONIST WHO MEANT EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID IN HUMANI GENERIS, that the body of Adam could have evolved..
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I remember when I read a speech Pope Pius XII gave where he praised modern science for unlocking the mysteries of the universe and repeatedly declared his belief that the universe was billions of years old, making a mockery of the traditional belief in a six day creation based on the Bible. It was one of the most shocking experiences I had as a traditional Catholic and made me lose the respect I had for Pope Pius XII.



    REALLY?! I have never heard this!

    How shocking and utterly unfortunate.


    This is the speech:
    https://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P12EXIST.HTM
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
    « Reply #12 on: December 01, 2016, 07:00:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: mw2016
    This is excellent. These people are, I believe, mostly Protestant, but they discuss the lies of evolution, heliocentrism, and a billions-years-old earth.

    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/AeIGrEtPMmE[/youtube]


    The clips from "The Principle" they used are welcome moments in these 2 hours of video.

    I guess the voice of "Captain Janeway" makes for a great background, but it's also the special effects and style from those excerpts that are appealing to me.

    The director included material from Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins that is much more revealing in regards to how contemptuous they are toward religion in general and Catholicism in particular. (In The Principle movie, they avoided fully exposing those two exponents of malediction.) They have deliberately and with great zeal directed all their intelligence toward calumniation and derision of all things holy, which is a hallmark of a hardened satanic character. With such vile attitudes as theirs, it's hard to imagine how God could ever be merciful toward such blasphemers.  It's an embarrassment to be among their contemporaries.

    Only by recognizing and opposing such horrors can we hope to evoke His infinite mercy for this faithless generation.

    Kyrie eleison.

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #13 on: December 01, 2016, 08:07:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: mw2016
    Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: cassini

    '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
    Pope Pius XII was a BIG BANG EVOLUTIONIST WHO MEANT EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID IN HUMANI GENERIS, that the body of Adam could have evolved..
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I remember when I read a speech Pope Pius XII gave where he praised modern science for unlocking the mysteries of the universe and repeatedly declared his belief that the universe was billions of years old, making a mockery of the traditional belief in a six day creation based on the Bible. It was one of the most shocking experiences I had as a traditional Catholic and made me lose the respect I had for Pope Pius XII.

    REALLY?! I have never heard this!

    How shocking and utterly unfortunate.


    This is the speech:
    https://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P12EXIST.HTM



    In the text of Pius XII linked above, there is found the following:
    Quote

    40. Although these figures may seem astounding, nevertheless, even to the simplest of the faithful, they bring no new or different concept from the one they learned in the opening words of Genesis: "In the beginning . . .," that is to say; at the beginning of things in time. The figures We have quoted clothe these words in a concrete and almost mathematical expression, while from them there springs forth a new source of consolation for those who share the esteem of the Apostle for that divinely inspired Scripture which is always useful "for teaching, for reproving, for correcting, for instructing" (2 Tim., 3, 16).

    E. THE STATE AND QUALITY OF ORIGINAL MATTER

    41. In addition to the question of the age of the cosmos, scholars have, with similar earnestness and liberty of research and verification, turned their daring genius to the other problem which has already been mentioned and which is certainly more difficult, concerning the state and quality of primitive matter.


    It's curious to see that he uses the term "the Apostle" regarding St. Paul, which is a tradition rooted in the works and style of St. Thomas Aquinas.  However, the rest of this speech is hardly something that St. Thomas would have agreed with.

    Again, in his use of the term "primitive matter" he seems to be implying a kind of recollection of the Aristotlean principle of prime matter, which St. Thomas employs in his writings. This appears to be an attempt to inject traditional philosophy into his musings about modern science.

    Regarding man in general and Adam in particular, the speech quoted here only contains the word "man" in one place, and does not mention Adam at all:

    Quote

    9. With similar richness other sciences, especially the astronomical and the biological sciences, have in our own day contributed to the argument from order such a vast array of knowledge and, so to speak, so stupefying a vision of the conceptual unity animating the cosmos, and of the teleology directing its movements, as to anticipate for modern man the joy which the poet imagined in the empyrean heaven when he beheld in God "Into one volume bound by love, the same that the universe holds scattered through its maze" (Alighieri Dante, <Paradiso,> Canto 33, 85-87).



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    Offline cassini

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    "Scientism Exposed" a docuмentary film
    « Reply #14 on: December 02, 2016, 08:51:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: mw2016
    Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: cassini

    '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
    Pope Pius XII was a BIG BANG EVOLUTIONIST WHO MEANT EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID IN HUMANI GENERIS, that the body of Adam could have evolved..
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I remember when I read a speech Pope Pius XII gave where he praised modern science for unlocking the mysteries of the universe and repeatedly declared his belief that the universe was billions of years old, making a mockery of the traditional belief in a six day creation based on the Bible. It was one of the most shocking experiences I had as a traditional Catholic and made me lose the respect I had for Pope Pius XII.


    REALLY?! I have never heard this!

    How shocking and utterly unfortunate.


    To understand papal scientism one has to backtrack into history to find the slow demise 'even of the elect.'

    Without a doubt it began with their fall into the Galilean REFORMATION. The first to be hoodwinked was Pope Benedict XIV (1740-1758) who, while not conceding to the ban on heretical heliocentric books, began the surrended by limiting it. the next pope who was talked into the reformation by men in his Holy Office was Pope Pius VII (1800-1823) followed by Pope Gregory XVI ((1831-1846) in 1835. In effect the papacy had now to conform to heliocentrism and a heliocentric reading of the geocentric words of Scripture.

    Galileo's reformation led popes to defend the new scientism and the new exegesis and hermeneutics. They did this by upgrading the suspected heretic Galileo to a Catholic martyr who tried to save the Church from the false biblical interpretation of the Fathers. They then resurrected Galileo's heliocentrioc Lincean Academy as the Church’s very own ‘scientifically correct’ Pontifical Academy of Sciences in 1847 and again in 1936. the record of papal speeches to this academy would make one squirm.

    The first assembly of the new Academy was inaugurated on June 1st 1937 by the then Cardinal Secretary of State, Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, the future Pope Pius XII. On a plaque placed by him to commemorate Pope Pius XI’s role in renewing the Academy, Cardinal Pacelli reminded all that Galileo was a leader of the original Accademia dei Lincei. In 1939 Pope Pius XII, in his first speech to the Pontifical Academy of SCIENTISM, within a few months of his election to the papacy was praising Galileo.
         
    ‘To Pius XII (1939-1958), science and religion were heavenly sisters, different manifestations of divine exactness that could not possibly contradict each other over the long term. Regarding their relation, his advisor Professor Robert Leiber wrote: “Pius XII was very careful not to close any doors prematurely. He was energetic on this point and regretted that in the case of Galileo.” Anticipating similar praises from Pope John Paul II in 1992, Pius XII, in his first speech to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences (1939), included Galileo among the “most audacious heroes of research… not afraid of the stumbling blocks and the risks on the way, nor fearful of the funereal monuments.”’ (Wikipedia)

    ‘In an article in L’Osservatore Romano last November, entitled Thank you, Galileo, Father José Funes, Director of the Specola Vaticana, the Vatican observatory, remarked: “There would have been no Galileo without the Catholic Church, and perhaps there would have been no Specola Vaticana without Galileo.”... All the Popes have always considered Galileo a genius: here outside there is a plaque that was set up by Pope Pius XII, which states that Galileo was a leading spirit of the Academy.  ---- 30 days website.’


    But it was the encyclicals that placed scientism into the womb of Catholicism.  This began in Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Providentissimus Deus. Ironically, this docuмent was written to address the rationalists and their use of ‘science’ and the new philosophies to dismiss the Bible as a credible authority. These had to include, but not named, the uses and users of natural uniformitarianism  and evolutionism,  theories that were by then being used by Modernists to change further traditional understandings of Genesis in particular. Included here also, we must not forget, was the sacred chronology of man, the antiquity of man on earth as recorded in the Old and New Testaments, a consecutive and numerical record of years from Adam.  
    However, in the paragraph they have titled ‘Natural Science’ the Letter was so worded as to allow it to be used to endorse a heliocentric reading of Scripture. The Reform was now complete, and this encyclical was used thereafter to assert the hermeneutics and exegesis of Galileo were at one with the Church’s.

    And this is why, in 1920, a mere twenty-seven years after Providentissimus Deus, Pope Benedict XV (1914-1922) had to write another encyclical (Spiritus Paraclitus) on biblical reading to try to redress the imbalance caused by the Galileo fiasco. Two encyclicals then had tried to restore proper exegesis of Scripture but failed miserably. Accordingly, in 1943 Pope Pius XII (1939-1958) had to produce Divino Afflante Spiritu, a third encyclical on scriptural exegeses. In this third attempt to bring harmony to faith and science we again find more of the hermeneutics set out by Galileo in 1613, trying of course to show how a geocentric wording in the Scriptures could in our day be read with a contrary heliocentric meaning. One can see how desperate the three popes were to try to fix the hidden disaster to biblical exegesis they were unaware of, the one they had inherited from the Galilean reformation.

    ‘On the other hand Galileo was right about heliocentricism. Moreover, some of his theological wanderings eventually found themselves mirrored in several papal encyclicals of the last two centuries. Providentissimus Deus by Leo XIII and Humani Generis by Pope Pius XII, for instance, both have pieces that could have been extracted from Galileo’s Letters to the Grand Duchess Christina… Galileo seems to have won out both on theological as well as scientific grounds…’ ---J.T. Winschel: Galileo, Victim or Villain, The Angelus, Oct. 2003, p.38.

    Now recall once again that Pope Urban VIII said that if a heliocentric interpretation of Scripture was adopted, ‘it would put the Catholic faith in danger.’ Here we see not only was it adopted as the true meaning of Scripture, but the hermeneutics used to make this heretical interpretation could now be used as a means to show how it can be applied to other biblical matters’

    ‘This freeze endured until in 1943 Pius XII’s great encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu reopened the door to the use of modern methods of biblical study and established scholarship in the scientific investigation of the Scriptures. The Pontifical Biblical Commission was quick to follow this initiative with a letter to Cardinal Suhard, Archbishop of Paris… taking this as an encouragement to revisit areas which had been blocked off by earlier decisions… stressing that in the context of the times it would have been unwise to teach a particular doctrine, but not that a particular doctrine was untrue or incorrect…. No responsible biblical scholar would today agree with any of these directives of the Biblical Commission.’---Henry Wansbrough OSB (current member of the PBC: The Centenary of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, Ampleforth Journal, autumn 2003.

     ‘36. For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God…..’ Humani gheneris