Author Topic: "Monsignor" Patrick J Perez (Read 42961 times)

Thorn · « **Reply #15 on:** November 17, 2011, 08:59:26 PM »

Interesting! I don't know if it's true about him going to the Old Catholics. That's just what was said from the pulpit, in his best authoritarian voice.

I go to Mass here, there & everywhere. I'm quite certain we don't know each other & have never met.

Thorn · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2011, 11:31:44 AM »

I've been wondering if I should be posting on Fr. Perez. Normally I wouldn't think of disrespecting a priest. But these are not normal times and the NO partly came into full bloom because Joe Blow in the pew just sat there & let it happen. Yes, the NO came from high places & maybe no matter what Joe Blow said or did, it would have been imposed on us; but still I believe that all the Joe Blows should have had a spine and refused to go along. We are called to be Soldiers of Christ & no matter the outcome we MUST fight evil and not just passively sit there & let things go on. That is why I think Joe Blow has a duty to expose false prophets & false contortions of the true Mass. Those of us in the trenches may get a little dirty, but should we just sit comfortably in the pew and just pray? I think not.

There are many problems with Fr. Perez. Some even wonder about his validity. I won't go there since I'm not equipped to tell but I do know 'by their fruits.....'.

I'm not the only one to leave his kingdom. The sad part is that many others have also - but to join non-Catholic chuches or to become home-aloners & even sadder to give up entirely. Yes, some drive greater distances to go to a SSPX or CMRI. Going to Fr. with a concern is tricky. To put it kindly- he needs to go to anger management classes. He's crucified people from the pulpit who have dared speak up, he's threatened and expelled others.

However it's his treatment of the Mass & ecclesiastical things that bothers me the most. Yes, as has been reported, he does the Mass perfectly. But you can't help but note how robotically he moves. Any actor can do the Mass. He takes in stray NO priests that have only had a few years of training in theology and teaches them how to say the Mass. There's more to being a priest than saying the TLM. An actor or even a Mason can do that. One priest that he taught said his first Mass so badly that some of us cringed. To make matters worse he laughed & made light of his mistakes when he gave his sermon. I can say much more about these priests but let's move on to the final straw.

Father didn't have enough priests to put on a Really Big Show for an important Mass. What did he do? He simply picked a young man from the flock, dressed him in priestly vestments, called him a straw sub-deacon & on with the show!!!! Shouldn't the people have protested this or at least questioned it? No, because he's got other people there who aren't quite what they seem and apparently the flock has been nicely conditioned to accept anything he says or does. Or maybe they're too afraid.

Sigismund · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2011, 07:57:20 PM »

Straw subdeacons are not unheard of , but if one is going to be used, and really they shouldn't, he should be in subdeacon's vestments, not priest's vestments.

Thorn · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2011, 08:14:04 PM »

What, pray tell, is a straw sub-deacon? Falsity has no place at the true Mass. Either a man is a deacon or he is not, so what difference does it make what he wears??

Where have you heard about a straw sub-deacon? In the NO? I've never in my life heard of one till this incident. The straw sub-deacon was a complete layman in priest's vestments that matched the other priest's vestments who acted as a deacon (or maybe he acted as a sub-deacon too).

I really do want to know where you ever heard of straw sub-deacons.

Sigismund · « **Reply #19 on:** November 22, 2011, 10:06:02 PM »

It is certainly not NO. They don't have subdeacons anymore.

I am actually a little embarrassed. It occurred to me after I posted the above statement that I heard about this from an Anglican. High church Anglicans will sometimes dress a server in subdeacon's vestments. They do not and never have had people they call subdeacons, but want to make their services look like a Solemn High Mass. I have no idea if Catholics have ever done anything like that. I certainly hope not.

So, basically, never mind.

Vladimir · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2011, 05:45:24 PM »

How many people go to the Vietnamese catechism classes at OLHC?

Emerentiana · « **Reply #21 on:** November 23, 2011, 06:22:23 PM »

Quote from: Sigismund

Straw subdeacons are not unheard of , but if one is going to be used, and really they shouldn't, he should be in subdeacon's vestments, not priest's vestments.

A subdeacon is a step in Holy Orders. No one can be a subdeacon if he has not reached that step while moving up to the priesthood.

Sigismund · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2011, 10:37:29 PM »

That is absolutely correct. See my post above where I explain that I was mistaken.

Thorn · « **Reply #23 on:** December 09, 2011, 07:54:22 PM »

Vladimir, why do you ask?

s2srea · « **Reply #24 on:** December 10, 2011, 10:14:02 AM »

I think Vlad is really close to the Vietnamese culture (or is Vietnamese), if I"m not mistaken.

Vlad- if you make it out to SoCal- let me know we'll go eat some Pho'! I know all the excellent restaurants!! I even had a close friend who was a chef at one!

Vladimir · « **Reply #25 on:** December 10, 2011, 10:53:57 AM »

I saw the announcement on OLHC website and it aroused my curiosity. I want to know more about the extent to which traditional Catholicism has entered the Vietnamese community. I'm also curious how the classes work and what materials (if any) they are using. To my knowledge, the only semi-traditional Vietnamese catechism widely available is a reprint of a translation of the Katholichser Katechismus. However, to my horror, when I skimmed through the book there is evidence that this reprint was done after Vatican II, as there is reference to the Mass no longer being said in Latin, but in the vernacular. There is no other indicators of unorthodoxy though, and on the whole it is a good catechism.

The other traditional catechism that I know of is an 8 part series of sermons by Alexandre de Rhodes covering the basics of the faith. His Vietnamese was extremely good and his rhetoric/style is very moving, however this edition is in archaic language and not widely available to my knowledge in printed form. It's also aimed at new converts and pagans.

Both these catechisms are fairly basic however, and I don't see how they could truly profit an adult class, the members of which probably already are familiar with the basics of the faith. Even among the Vatican II faithful, they have retained the majority of the true faith, thanks largely in part to the reprinting of pre-Vatican II material, such as old prayer books and spiritual writing. They have not entirely lost a "Catholic sense", like many Americans.

The other option, which would be even more exciting for me, is that they run a sort of introduction to Tradition catechism class for Catholics new to tradition. To my knowledge, there are no traditional Catholic apologetics books available in Vietnamese (i.e., Open Letter to Confused Catholics, etc). There may have been translations from French, but of that I'm not sure. I'd be very interested in the vocabulary and rhetoric they use to defend tradition. I would think that it is heavily laden with Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary (the equivalent of a heavily Latinate vocabulary in English) and difficult for the layperson to understand.

s2srea - Nothing like a bowl of pho on a cold morning.

Thorn · « **Reply #26 on:** December 10, 2011, 04:16:07 PM »

Sorry, Vladimir, that I can't answer your question, but I'm guessing that perhaps a Vietnamese layman leads the class using the same book that Fr. Perez uses for the English class and translates for the class. I'm quite certain that they would NOT use any Vatican II books. Not all catechism classes there are lead by priests so using a layman wouldn't be out of the ordinary there.

joe17 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:05:08 PM »

As to straw-subdeacons, the Catholic Church permits clerics(tonsure and above) to serve as a substitute when ordained subdeacons are not available. They do not wear the maniple.
When John XXIII took over the Vatican, he permitted laymen(non-clerics, or not even a seminarian) to take over the role of subdeacon in a Solemn High Mass. So, if your place accepts John XXIII as pope, then there is a certain logic for them to use a layman for a subsititute subdeacon/straw-subdeacon.
I hope this helps.

Thorn · « **Reply #28 on:** December 11, 2011, 10:46:13 PM »

And dresses him in priest's vestments to match the other priest?! Isn't this putting on a false front? I've been to very, very few NO Masses so I'm not up on what they do. If this priest was following the strict traditional Mass, then why would he allow such a thing? (except for show), which to me seems a flimsy reason. But, yes, I will allow that your explanation could explain such a thing. So then the question is: If this priest is doing so many NO things, why isn't he under a bishop? Never mind, I think I know the answer.

Pepsuber · « **Reply #29 on:** December 23, 2011, 05:46:12 PM »

Quote from: Sigismund

I have no idea if Catholics have ever done anything like that. I certainly hope not.

Once a man is a cleric (i.e. receives tonsure) he can act as a "straw subdeacon" at Solemn Mass. He doesn't wear the maniple (IIRC) or the stole.

It is perfectly normal and traditional.