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Author Topic: "Church and State" by Benito Mussolini  (Read 2858 times)

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Offline StLouisIX

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Re: "Church and State" by Benito Mussolini
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2021, 06:47:07 PM »
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    A fight against religion is a fight against the impalpable and the intangible; it is open warfare against the spirit in its most profound and most significant form, and it is by this time fully proven that the weapons at the disposal of the State, no matter how sharp they may be, are powerless to inflict any mortal blows on the Church — and by the Church I mean especially the Catholic Church — which always emerges triumphant after engaging in the most bitter conflicts.

    A State can only be victorious in a fight against another State. It can then cement its victory, for example, by imposing a change of regime, a territorial cession, a payment of indemnity, the disarming of the army, or a determined system of political or economic alliances. When fighting against a State, the State is confronted with a material reality that can be seized, struck, mutilated, transformed; but when fighting against a religion it is impossible to locate a particular target: passive resistance on the part of the priests or the faithful is enough to frustrate the most violent attacks by a State. Bismarck, in the eight years of his Kulturkampf, unhappy with the dogma of papal infallibility in religious matters, arrested dozens of bishops, closed hundreds of churches, dissolved many Catholic organizations, and even sequestered their funds; "Away from Rome!" and the outcome of this persecution was that one hundred Catholic deputies won seats in the Reichstag, the figure of Windthorst became popularized throughout the world and the moral resistance of the German Catholic world was put on display. In the end Bismarck, the founder of the German Empire, capitulated before Leo XIII, calling him the arbiter of an international dispute and writing him a letter that began with word "Sire".


    Getting this topic back on track, this is a section that I wish to highlight. I think there is a tendency in our circles to embrace a kind of defeatist mentality, and with all the terrible things going on right now, it is easy for us to fall into this kind of trap. This passage here is a reminder that the Church, as Mussolini puts it, "...always emerges triumphant after engaging in the most bitter conflicts". The example of the Kulturkampf used by Mussolini is just one of many such stories. But I particularly appreciate that he says "When fighting against a State, the State is confronted with a material reality that can be seized, struck, mutilated, transformed; but when fighting against a religion it is impossible to locate a particular target: passive resistance on the part of the priests or the faithful is enough to frustrate the most violent attacks by a State". The United Nations, which dismembered Germany and her allies after the war, has seen its current persecution against the Church, with of its lockdowns and quarantines, fail miserably. Even the efforts of their allies in the Conciliar Church, with Traditiones Custodes, have not made souls flee from the pews. I think many of us have even personally witnessed how our traditional chapels grew after the lockdowns, which is a sign of the fact that in light of this persecution, more, not less, souls have been drawn to the Faith. Now, numbers alone cannot win this battle, but I think it is a sign that those who are asking God for the truth and for fortitude in these times are being provided for. 

    This scamdemic isn't over, of course. But this minor victory is only a sign of the greater one which is to come. It is a foreshadowing that the ideals of Secular Humanism (inspired by ʝʊdɛօ-Masonry) and now even Transhumanism have no real vitality to them, and will fail to outlast the very institution founded by Him who alone is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). 

    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: "Church and State" by Benito Mussolini
    « Reply #46 on: December 21, 2021, 06:50:55 PM »
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  • Mussolini wrote of the Church in a 1922 article that: 


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    It cannot be expected to make it a national church at the service of the nation. The strength, the prestige, the millenary and lasting charm of Catholicism lie precisely in the fact that Catholicism is not the religion of a given nation or a given race, but it is the religion of all peoples and all races. The strength of Catholicism - the word itself says - lies in its universalism. This is why Rome is the only city on earth that can be called "universal".



    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: "Church and State" by Benito Mussolini
    « Reply #47 on: December 21, 2021, 07:00:55 PM »
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  • But I particularly appreciate that he says "When fighting against a State, the State is confronted with a material reality that can be seized, struck, mutilated, transformed; but when fighting against a religion it is impossible to locate a particular target: passive resistance on the part of the priests or the faithful is enough to frustrate the most violent attacks by a State". The United Nations, which dismembered Germany and her allies after the war, has seen its current persecution against the Church, with of its lockdowns and quarantines, fail miserably.
    I'm happy to see this thread back on track. What you quote there is the thing that really stood out to me. Mussolini understood the Church far better than any of Her enemies, and, in that regard, showed himself to be a loyal son of the Church. The material cannot afflict the spiritual, so to think that threatening the faithful with financial ruin or lockdowns will work is only going to create more martyrs, either by blood or by spirit.

    I welcome the FEMA deathcamps (per Celeste Solum), if it comes to that. Because I know that the powers of the world have become desperate at that point. And all a tyrannical State is doing is allowing me an easy way to see my God.

    Mussolini wrote of the Church in a 1922 article that:

    Quote
    It cannot be expected to make it a national church at the service of the nation. The strength, the prestige, the millenary and lasting charm of Catholicism lie precisely in the fact that Catholicism is not the religion of a given nation or a given race, but it is the religion of all peoples and all races. The strength of Catholicism - the word itself says - lies in its universalism. This is why Rome is the only city on earth that can be called "universal".
    This statement refutes the naysayers of Fascist Mussolini earlier in the thread, who were insisting that all Fascism seeks is to subordinate the Church to the State. Which is simply untrue, you have the words of Mussolini here to support that, and you have movements like Austrofascism under Dollfuss that sought to create a Catholic Fascist State.

    I recall a college Professor strawmanning Fascism as merely the "worship of the State"; which is not the case if you actually look at what the individual movements sought. State worship is more akin to what would be found under Soviet Russia or Maoist China.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: "Church and State" by Benito Mussolini
    « Reply #48 on: December 21, 2021, 07:29:00 PM »
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  • We can look to Oswald Mosley as well to see a similar view of the relationship of Church and State, noting that Mosley was wholly secular in this regard, but, nonetheless it shows a relationship beneficial to the moral character of the people. It's a pretty common position that is found within all of the "Traditionalist" writers of the early-mid 20th century.


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    10. What is your attitude towards religion ?

    We believe in complete religious toleration. The Fascist attitude is well summarised by the
    Christian precept " Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's."
    We are concerned with the business of the Nation, not with the business of religion. None of the great religions preach the subversion of the State, and therefore they have no conflict with Fascism. On the contrary we welcome religion which inculcates a sense of service and of spiritual values, for service and the values of the spirit are the essence of Fascism.

    -Fascism - 100 Questions Asked and Answered
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]