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Poll

What is your traditionalist position?

Sedevacantist
41 (50%)
Resistance
13 (15.9%)
SSPX
21 (25.6%)
Indult
6 (7.3%)
Novus Ordo
1 (1.2%)

Total Members Voted: 79

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Author Topic: Your Traditionalist Position  (Read 22582 times)

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Offline Kephapaulos

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Your Traditionalist Position
« on: September 02, 2024, 01:45:37 PM »
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    • What is your traditionalist position?
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #1 on: September 02, 2024, 01:56:31 PM »
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    • I chose SSPX. Sedeprivationist SSPX-Mass attendee isn't a choice.
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #2 on: September 02, 2024, 02:12:59 PM »
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    • I checked sedevacantist, however, the sedeprivationist is the closest I’ve been able to reason through.  I’m strictly dogmatic about it; recognizing that others may legitimately hold differing points of view.  There is no sedeprivationist chapel near me, so I attend a sedevacantist chapel.  I will attend an SSPX or Resistance chapel since I view the matter as unable to be certainly determined until a fully Catholic Pope makes a definitive ruling.  
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #3 on: September 02, 2024, 03:14:01 PM »
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    • This poll is missing some choices.

    Would it be better to say 
    recognize and resist, 
    sedevacantist, 
    unclear middle position, 
    indult, 
    other, 
    all, 
    anything but that which is attached to the Novus Ordo?
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    Offline Traddie

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #4 on: September 02, 2024, 05:07:29 PM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on September 02, 2024, 03:14:01 PM
    This poll is missing some choices.

    Would it be better to say
    recognize and resist,
    sedevacantist ...

    The problem with that is it assumes that sedevacantista are not also recognize and resisters.

    Fr. Cekada's sect recognizes Pius XII as a legitimate pope, but resists (i.e., rejects) his liturgical reforms.

    Every sedevacantist sect recognizes Benedict XVI as a legitimate pope, yet they reject countless laws that he promulgated in the 1917 code.  For example, every one of their bishops were consecrated without papal mandate, in direct defiance of the 1917 Code, and also in defiance of the law promulgated by Pius XII who attached an ipso facto excomminucation to that crime.  By recognizing Pius XII as pope, they are morally obliged to recognize their own excommunication and act accordingly, yet none of them do. Every sedevacantist priest/bishop hears confession and pretends to grant absolution, in direct definiance of the 1917 Code, which explicitly forbids any priest/bishop from doing so who does not possess ordinary faculties (except in danger of death).

    I could go on and on, but the point is that every sedevacantist priest, and every sedevacantist laymen who attends a sede chapel, rejects legitimate laws that were promulgate by popes who legitimacy they accept. The same is true for the sedeprivationists.

    So, the categories should be:

    1) Non sedevacantist recognize and resist.
    2) Sedevacantist recognize and resist.
    3) Sedeprivationist recognize and resist.

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    Offline Traddie

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #5 on: September 02, 2024, 05:13:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Seraphina on September 02, 2024, 02:12:59 PM
    I checked sedevacantist, however, the sedeprivationist is the closest I’ve been able to reason through. 

    But how can you reason through sedeprivationism when you don't understand sedeprivationism?  Or are you the one person who does understand it.  If so, please explain it for the rest of us.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #6 on: September 02, 2024, 05:18:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Traddie on September 02, 2024, 05:07:29 PM
    The problem with that is it assumes that sedevacantista are not also recognize and resisters.

    Fr. Cekada's sect recognizes Pius XII as a legitimate pope, but resists (i.e., rejects) his liturgical reforms.

    Every sedevacantist sect recognizes Benedict XVI as a legitimate pope, yet they reject countless laws that he promulgated in the 1917 code.  For example, every one of their bishops were consecrated without papal mandate, in direct defiance of the 1917 Code, and also in defiance of the law promulgated by Pius XII who attached an ipso facto excomminucation to that crime.  By recognizing Pius XII as pope, they are morally obliged to recognize their own excommunication and act accordingly, yet none of them do. Every sedevacantist priest/bishop hears confession and pretends to grant absolution, in direct definiance of the 1917 Code, which explicitly forbids any priest/bishop from doing so who does not possess ordinary faculties (except in danger of death).

    I could go on and on, but the point is that every sedevacantist priest, and every sedevacantist laymen who attends a sede chapel, rejects legitimate laws that were promulgate by popes who legitimacy they accept. The same is true for the sedeprivationists.

    So, the categories should be:

    1) Non sedevacantist recognize and resist.
    2) Sedevacantist recognize and resist.
    3) Sedeprivationist recognize and resist.
    You do realize that this forum recognizes sedevacantists as Catholic, not part of a "sect", right?
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #7 on: September 02, 2024, 05:32:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: Traddie on September 02, 2024, 05:22:44 PM
    That's fine, but the fact remains that every sedevacanitst chapel is a non-Catholic sect. And everyone who attends Mass at a sedevacantist sect is, according to Bellarmine, a "manifest heretic".  I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings, but even heretics have a right to hear the truth.

    Are you Siscoe or Salza? 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Gunter

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #8 on: September 02, 2024, 05:35:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Traddie on September 02, 2024, 05:22:44 PM
    That's fine, but the fact remains that every sedevacanitst chapel is a non-Catholic sect. And everyone who attends Mass at a sedevacantist sect is, according to Bellarmine, a "manifest heretic".  I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings, but even heretics have a right to hear the truth.
    Traddie, where do you attend?  
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #9 on: September 02, 2024, 05:40:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Traddie on September 02, 2024, 05:07:29 PM
    The problem with that is it assumes that sedevacantista are not also recognize and resisters.

    Fr. Cekada's sect recognizes Pius XII as a legitimate pope, but resists (i.e., rejects) his liturgical reforms.

    Every sedevacantist sect recognizes Benedict XVI as a legitimate pope, yet they reject countless laws that he promulgated in the 1917 code.  For example, every one of their bishops were consecrated without papal mandate, in direct defiance of the 1917 Code, and also in defiance of the law promulgated by Pius XII who attached an ipso facto excomminucation to that crime.  By recognizing Pius XII as pope, they are morally obliged to recognize their own excommunication and act accordingly, yet none of them do. Every sedevacantist priest/bishop hears confession and pretends to grant absolution, in direct definiance of the 1917 Code, which explicitly forbids any priest/bishop from doing so who does not possess ordinary faculties (except in danger of death).

    I could go on and on, but the point is that every sedevacantist priest, and every sedevacantist laymen who attends a sede chapel, rejects legitimate laws that were promulgate by popes who legitimacy they accept. The same is true for the sedeprivationists.

    So, the categories should be:

    1) Non sedevacantist recognize and resist.
    2) Sedevacantist recognize and resist.
    3) Sedeprivationist recognize and resist.

    Every now and then a strange one comes along.

    At least you could try to be funny.:clown:

    Well, at least you mentioned the laws that Benedict XVI promulgated in the 1917 code, ten years before he was even born. :fryingpan:
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    Offline Traddie

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #10 on: September 02, 2024, 05:42:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on September 02, 2024, 05:40:03 PM
    Code?
    Every now and then a strange one comes along.

    At least you could try to be funny.:clown:

    Well, at least you mentioned the laws that Benedict XVI promulgated in the 1917 code, ten years before he was even born. :fryingpan:

    Typo correction:  Benedict XV.  Do you deny that every sede priest and pseudo bishop rejects laws that were promulgated by Benedict XV in the 1917 Code?  Every sede chapel is a violation of that law as is every Mass celebrated by a sede priest.  Except in danger of death, everytime a sede priest or pseudo bishop exercises a priestly power he commits a mortal sin.
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    Offline Traddie

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #11 on: September 02, 2024, 06:02:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on September 02, 2024, 05:18:58 PM
    You do realize that this forum recognizes sedevacantists as Catholic, not part of a "sect", right?

    The worst of all has to be he CMRI cult, which was founded by the notorious heretic, Francis Schuckardt aka Antipope Hadrian VII.  Is that the sect that you belong to?  Every member of the CRMI sect has incurred a latae sententiae exommunication, which means they are cut off from the communion of saints. 
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    Offline Gunter

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #12 on: September 02, 2024, 06:11:45 PM »
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    • Traddie where do you attend? 
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #13 on: September 02, 2024, 06:18:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: Traddie on September 02, 2024, 05:42:18 PM
    Typo correction:  Benedict XV.  Do you deny that every sede priest and pseudo bishop rejects laws that were promulgated by Benedict XV in the 1917 Code?  Every sede chapel is a violation of that law as is every Mass celebrated by a sede priest.  Except in danger of death, everytime a sede priest or pseudo bishop exercises a priestly power he commits a mortal sin.
    I don't really understand how people take the time to argue with folks like you, who come here with an agenda and write bombastic posts.

    As I said before, you could try to be funny to compensate all the nonsense.

    Pick the one that better describes your position:

    :trollface:
    :clown:

    :jester:

    :laugh2:
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: Your Traditionalist Position
    « Reply #14 on: September 02, 2024, 06:20:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Traddie on September 02, 2024, 06:02:26 PM
    The worst of all has to be he CMRI cult, which was founded by the notorious heretic, Francis Schuckardt aka Antipope Hadrian VII.  Is that the sect that you belong to?  Every member of the CRMI sect has incurred a latae sententiae exommunication, which means they are cut off from the communion of saints.

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    If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
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