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Author Topic: Your Call  (Read 734 times)

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Offline Venantius0518

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Re: Your Call
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2020, 06:05:17 PM »
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    This is completely false. Jone's Moral Theology has this to say: An excommunicatus vitandus or an excommunicatus per sententiam declaratorium vel condemnatoriam may not confer a sacrament on anyone who is not in danger of death. In danger of death one under such censure may only give absolution (Canon 822); however, he may administer the other sacraments at the request of the faithful if no other minister is present (Canon 2261). The same holds for one who is suspended from administering the sacraments per sententiam declaratoriam vel condemnatoriam (Canon 2284). Other excommunicated or suspended persons may administer any sacrament at the request of the faithful (Canon 2261), provided they have recovered the state of grace.
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    Moral theology, §454.4
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    Thus, even an excommunicated cleric can administer the sacraments at the request of the faithful unless he is under a declaratory sentence (which none of the people we are talking about would be).
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    For convenience sake, here is the full text of Canon 2261 (all numberings are from the 1917 Code):
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    An excommunicate is prohibited from licitly performing and administering the sacraments and sacramentals, except in the following circuмstances:
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    2. The faithful can ask for the sacraments and sacramentals from an excommunicate for any just reason, while observing 3. below, especially if other ministers are absent, and then the excommunicate who is asked can administer the same, nor is he bound by any obligation to ask the reason from the person requesting it.
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    3. However, the faithful can ask for sacramental absolution only in danger of death from those who are excommunicated vitandus or other excommunicates, according to the norm of Canon 882, 2252, and even the other sacraments and sacramentals if there are no other ministers available.

    Wrong.
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    According to Saint Robert Bellarmine, all the ancient Fathers teach that “manifest heretics lose immediately all jurisdiction.”
     
     https://www.tfp.org/the-heretic-excludes-himself-from-the-church-being-condemned-by-his-own-judgment/
     
     Canon 1258 of the Code of Canon Law (1917) legislated:
     
     “It is forbidden to actively participate in the worship of non-Catholics.” (communicatio in sacris)
     
     Furthermore, the Council of Trent taught:
     
     “If anyone saith that faith alone is a sufficient preparation for receiving the Sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist; let him be anathema. But if anyone shall presume to teach, preach, or obstinately to assert, or even in public disputation to defend the contrary, he shall be thereupon excommunicated.”
     
     https://forums.catholic.com/t/code-of-canon-law-1917-vs-code-of-canon-law-1983/187591
     


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Your Call
    « Reply #16 on: August 13, 2020, 08:55:49 PM »
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  • If you willingly receive sacraments from a known heretic or illegitimate cleric, you commit the same mortal sin as the cleric administering the sacrament, and no grace flows where mortal sin occurs.

    Whether willingly or not, you commit that mortal sin, if you do. If not willingly, you may be excused for this sin, but on the other hand may not be excused for failing to have done your duty to find out in advance.


    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)