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Offline bowler

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Wud U have Recognized Christ?
« on: June 23, 2014, 01:53:18 PM »
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  • During the time of Our Lord Jesus Christ's presence among us creatures, practically no one recognized him to be the Messiah. Twelve apostles and a handful of disciples versus the entire world, is numerically speaking practically 0% of the world's population. The chances of any of us being a believer in Christ at that time is zero. The Jews were waiting for a prosperity king, a king that would make them all rich, and a world power. Had Christ come as a prosperity king, any imbecile would have recognized him.

    Lucifer mimics our Lord. If today the Anti-Christ came as a world leader, a bread king, any idiot could identify him, for it is what the whole world is expecting from an anti-Christ a "prosperity king" world leader. What if the Anti-Christ came as a false spiritual leader (as Christ did), leading all Catholics (the only souls who are not lost), to fall away from the faith or to practice a false Catholicism that allows them to do as they like (live in sin. NFP, contraceptives, annulments, no confessions, pre-marital sex....)?

    I've always wondered, what would happen if I was able to convince my relatives to go to mass and confession and live a Catholic life? They have nowhere to go! What do I tell them? You can only go to this SSPX chapel or that Independent chapel 30 miles away, that in a city of 1 million people, only 30 people go to.

    The Anti-Christ's work has already been done, numerically speaking there are no Catholics living the faith. Could it be that (Paul VI) JPII, and B16 are the anti-Christ and Beast described in scripture, and the whole world missed the boat again?

    See

    Offline bowler

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #1 on: June 23, 2014, 09:54:31 PM »
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  • What if the Anti-Christ came as a false spiritual leader leading all Catholics (the only souls left who are not lost) to fall away from the faith or to practice a false Catholicism, the conciliarism that allows them to do as they like (live in sin. NFP, contraceptives, annulments, no confessions, pre-marital sex....)?

    The Anti-Christ's work has already been done, numerically speaking there are no Catholics living the faith. Could it be that (Paul VI) JPII, and B16 are the anti-Christ and Beast described in scripture, and the whole world missed the boat again?


    Offline bowler

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #2 on: June 24, 2014, 08:00:44 AM »
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  • Quote
    The Anti-Christ's work has already been done, numerically speaking there are no Catholics living the faith.


    Even among the insignificant handful that go to the traditional mass you have a majority of the young that did not live through the 1960-1980's, and are living a superficial Catholic life like the Catholics of the 1950's, and the older Catholics have become comfortable with just having a mass. Scarcely even any real traditionalists are left, the majority go just for the mass.  

    Offline JPaul

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #3 on: June 24, 2014, 08:54:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: bowler
    Quote
    The Anti-Christ's work has already been done, numerically speaking there are no Catholics living the faith.


    Even among the insignificant handful that go to the traditional mass you have a majority of the young that did not live through the 1960-1980's, and are living a superficial Catholic life like the Catholics of the 1950's, and the older Catholics have become comfortable with just having a mass. Scarcely even any real traditionalists are left, the majority go just for the mass.  


    As I have observed, in the past, Traditionalism today is a replication. It is a part, which has the appearance of a whole.

    Offline ggreg

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #4 on: June 24, 2014, 09:00:27 AM »
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  • I'm not sure I would want to determine who was a "real" Catholic and who was not.  Might get a little subjective in some cases don't you think?

    Let's say that a jobless single man of 42, for example, is telling a married man with 9 children that he is not a "real catholic" or a "superficial Catholic' because he is allowing or even encouraging his daugher to go to university?

    Or the father of 9 attends the new mass but has, despite all the problems, managed to keep his family practicing the faith and saying the Rosary?  While fully practicing families are not common in the Novus Ordo world I dare say they outnumber Traditionalists globally so I am not sure they can be written off.

    You paint a gloomy picture.  What would you suggest the solution is?

    Should we just wait for the Chastisement?


    Offline bowler

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #5 on: June 24, 2014, 11:12:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    I'm not sure I would want to determine who was a "real" Catholic and who was not.  Might get a little subjective in some cases don't you think?

    Let's say that a jobless single man of 42, for example, is telling a married man with 9 children that he is not a "real catholic" or a "superficial Catholic' because he is allowing or even encouraging his daugher to go to university?

    Or the father of 9 attends the new mass but has, despite all the problems, managed to keep his family practicing the faith and saying the Rosary?  While fully practicing families are not common in the Novus Ordo world I dare say they outnumber Traditionalists globally so I am not sure they can be written off.


    "Judging" matters not. The point is there are scarcely any Catholics left in the world, I doubt if 1% of the supposed 1 million baptized Catholics, live the faith and even their children have lost or are loosing the habit.


    Quote from: ggreg
    You paint a gloomy picture.  What would you suggest the solution is?


    Did you see the video link? We are living in the time after the anti-Christ, the whole world has lost the faith, and nobody knows it.

    "But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?" Luke 18:8

    There is no "solution", it has already happened. What you need to do is live the faith, and don't fall for the subterfuge.


    Quote from: ggreg
    Should we just wait for the Chastisement?


    What greater chastisement is there than that everyone has lost the faith? The entire world is going to hell, and the only people that could warn them, the Catholics and the Conciliar Church, have been teaching that everyone who is "good" is saved.

    Offline The Penny Catechism

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #6 on: June 25, 2014, 04:19:27 AM »
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  • Quote from: bowler
    ..."Judging" matters not. The point is there are scarcely any Catholics left in the world, I doubt if 1% of the supposed 1 million baptized Catholics, live the faith and even their children have lost or are loosing the habit.


    The fate of the Modernist heresy to its end conclusion -- a world of subtle illusions... on top of illusions. Nobody knows whose infected anymore; because in a way we've all been influenced; if not directly then indirectly. Why you can have the "1%" of Trad Catholics on a Forum (here and elsewhere) and see evident contradiction and disagreements everywhere. Unity in our disunity.  

    Quote
    We are living in the time after the anti-Christ, the whole world has lost the faith, and nobody knows it.


    Pascendi: 3. "...they lay the axe...to the very root, that is, to the Faith.... Finally, and this almost destroys all hope of cure, their very doctrines have given such a bent to their minds,..."  

    Scary to think that a person can lose the Faith, and not know they've lost the Faith. It's approximating the opposite of the elect; being doomed to damnation, because they never figure this out in this life...believing all along they were on the right road. The heresy of heresies.  


    Quote
    There is no "solution", it has already happened. What you need to do is live the faith, and don't fall for the subterfuge.


    I agree although I'm still open to persuasion (belief in the restoration); but see this current state of affairs as being over. Stick a fork in it; it's done. It's a matter of how long can we extend this thing out...years??? Decades??? Somewhere in this world are dispersed the true faithful; much holier and better than me. Their humble bearing of their crosses and perseverance is keeping this whole thing afloat.

    Quote
    What greater chastisement is there than that everyone has lost the faith? The entire world is going to hell, and the only people that could warn them, the Catholics and the Conciliar Church, have been teaching that everyone who is "good" is saved.


    Worse than what you described. If we (you and me) were living in the 1800's; we could walk down the neighborhoood Catholic Church and be assured of having 'the Faith,'....still, the company line to salvation was the old standby ---- "4 Last Things:" Death, Judgement, Heaven, and Hell. It was assumed already that you had the faith. The battle to determine one's eternal fate was in keeping the Commandments and Laws of the Church; in other words to retain the state of grace unto death --- The preaching then, was that the fewest of the few were saved (of those who had the Faith already).

    "The Four Last Things" Fr. Martin von Cochem pg. 211-223 (next 3 para.)
    Quote
    "...observe that Christ did not say that those were few in number who walked in the path to heaven, but that there were but few who found that narrow way...The path leading to heaven is so narrow and so rough, it is so overgrown, so dark and difficult to discern, that there are many who, their whole life long, never find it. And those who do find it are exposed constantly to the danger of deviating from it, of mistaking their way and unwittingly wandering away from it, because it is so irregular and overgrown." This St. Jerome says, in his commentary on the passage in question. Again, there are some who when they are on the right road, hasten to leave it, because it is so steep and toilsome. There are also many who are enticed to leave the narrow way by the wiles and deceits of the devil, and thus almost imperceptibly to themselves, are led downwards to hell. From all that has been said we may gather that those are but few in number who find the way to heaven, and yet fewer are those who persevere in following it unto the end."


    "The Four Last Things"
    Quote
    ; and those who live a careless life and indulge their senses are repeatedly warned that eternal death will be their portion. Listen to the admonition Christ addresses to the votaries of this world and the lovers of its luxuries: "Woe to you that are rich, for you have your consolation. Woe to you that are filled, for you shall hunger; woe to you that now laugh, for you shall mourn and weep. Woe to you when men shall bless you," that is, when men of bad principles, opposed to the maxims of religion, applaud your words, your actions, your opinions. This denunciation from Our Lord's lips may well fill us with dismay. What object in life have the great majority of mankind? What is it that they strive after and crave for? They desire to be rich, to be prosperous, to live in luxury, and to be praised by their fellow men. Nobody considers this to be a sin. And yet Our Lord declares that everlasting death will be the doom of such persons, and He denounces them in forcible language.


    "The Four Last Things"
    Quote
    St. Catherine Sienna: "O unhappy sinners, do not rely upon the greatness of God's mercy; believe me, the more you provoke the anger of this merciful God by willful sin, the deeper you will be cast into the abyss of perdition."
    St. Gregory: "Let him who does all that he can, rely firmly upon the mercy of God. But for him who does not do all that lies within his power; to rely upon the mercy of God would be simple presumption."


    "The Four Last Things"
    Quote
    Several of the Fathers of the Church consider that from the fact that at the time of the deluge only eight persons were saved, at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha only four - namely, Lot, his wife and his two daughters - escaped with their lives, and of the 600,000 able men who departed out of Egypt, not more than 2 reached the Promised Land, the others all dying in the desert, it may be concluded that the number of the elect amongst Christians will be proportionately small. This agrees with what St. John Chrysostom said on one occasion when he was preaching in the city of Antioch: "....


    "The Four Last Things"
    Quote
    If thou wouldst be saved, follow the counsel of St. Anselm, when he says: "If thou wouldst be certain of being in the number of the elect, strive to be one of the few, not of the many. And if thou wouldst be quite sure of thy salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few; that is to say: Do not follow the great majority of mankind, but follow those who enter upon the narrow way, who renounce the world, who give themselves to prayer, and who never relax their efforts by day or by night, that they may attain everlasting felicity."


    ....just think that was back then, before the heresy of heresies (Modernism) now rearing it's frightful and ugly head.

    What's worse is that Catholic Traditionalist, in particular are prone to temptations to pride (because we believe we're better than others/ that spirit of inner gnosticism where we won't go out of our way to share what "we know."). Pride is one of the causes of ... you guessed it, Modernism.  

    Pascendi 40.
    Quote
    The Cause of Modernism: Proximate cause is a perversion of the mind...the remote causes are curiosity and pride....But it is pride which exercises an incomparable greater sway over the soul to blind it and plunge it into error, and pride sits in Modernism as in its own house...It is pride which fills the Modernist with that confidence in themselves and leads them to hold themselves up as the rule for all, pride which puffs them up with that vainglory which allows them to regard themselves as the sole possessors of knowledge, and makes them say, inflated with presumption, We are not as the rest of men....


    This was the initial downfall of the post VII clergy and it is now trying to destroy Faithful Catholics by numbing our brain into believing that everything isn't so bad or by overestimating perceived threats that aren't there (getting away from a healthy median).

    So perhaps the greatest grace from your fears and concerns Bowler is awareness... of our own fragility... of our own helplessness... and of our own weakness; because then we will be our strongest by turning to Christ to find our strength (and not by our own wits) and by living each day with edge, effort, and energy in the True Faith...never forgetting Hope in Our Lord and supernatural Charity.

    Offline bowler

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #7 on: June 25, 2014, 10:21:50 AM »
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  • Only a person who has read Von Cochem's  book and understood it, rather than run away from its REALITY, can write what you wrote. Excellent in every word. Thank you.

    God Bless

    ----------------------------------------
    The quote below was written in the 1700's, when the faith still existed. Today we are in the great deluge of spiritual poison, the time of the anti-Christ, truly, scarcely anyone is saved today:


     "In the great deluge in the days of Noah, all mankind perished, eight persons alone being saved in the Ark. In our days a deluge, not of water, but sins, continually inundates the earth, and out of this deluge very few escape. Scarcely anyone is saved". ( St. Alphonsus Liguori)


    Offline bowler

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #8 on: June 25, 2014, 10:30:31 AM »
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  • It is curious how the majority of even "traditionalist" Catholic men, when surrounded by seemingly insurmountable obstacles as I've described on this thread will panic and go the route of despair. That despair is a sign of lack of faith in God.

    The majority of men will read Von Cochem's book and go into despair, while a rare few are enlightened, and finally see the whole picture completed, what was missing in their ideas is finalized. Von Cochem was a great communicator in all his books. He writes the same thing in 5 different ways and one of them catches you.  

    Offline bowler

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #9 on: June 26, 2014, 01:09:53 PM »
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  • What if the Anti-Christ already came as only a false spiritual leader leading all Catholics to fall away from the faith or to practice a false Catholicism that allows them to do as they like, to live in mortal sin ?

    Maybe the Anti-Christ's work has already been done, since numerically speaking there are no Catholics living the faith. Maybe JPII and B16 are the anti-Christ and Beast described in scripture, and the whole world missed the boat again?

     

    See

    Nobody knows it, even traditionalist all think that a place to go to have Latin Mass will solve everything and the world is fine.


    Offline bowler

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #10 on: June 27, 2014, 07:35:59 PM »
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  • The interesting thing is that the Protestants called practically every good pope an Anti-Christ, the popes that taught EENS, the popes that were doing their Catholic duty and trying to save the Protestants soul.

    Now that the pope is an or the Anti-Christ, and teaches the Protestants that they are OK where they are, no Protestants considers him the Anti-Christ


    Offline Matto

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #11 on: June 27, 2014, 08:01:49 PM »
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  • When I read about how few are saved I get scared. I know I am not doing all I can to save my soul. Yes, I pray the rosary every day, 15 decades, and I attend the true Mass, but I do not dedicate the rest of my life to Christ. I know I do more than most people so I have a better chance than most, but if only like ten people in my city of 8 million who die above the age of reason are saved, what chance do I have even though I am better than most?
    In a Station of the Metro
    The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
    Petals on a wet, black bough.

    Offline bowler

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #12 on: June 27, 2014, 08:44:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    When I read about how few are saved I get scared. I know I am not doing all I can to save my soul. Yes, I pray the rosary every day, 15 decades, and I attend the true Mass, but I do not dedicate the rest of my life to Christ. I know I do more than most people so I have a better chance than most, but if only like ten people in my city of 8 million who die above the age of reason are saved, what chance do I have even though I am better than most?


    What you wrote is a good sign that you are closer to God than the others who think that they are safe. St. Francis of Assisi was sure that he was lost when he was on his deathbed. The closer we get to God the more we see our imperfections.

    Offline The Penny Catechism

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #13 on: June 27, 2014, 08:46:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    When I read about how few are saved I get scared. I know I am not doing all I can to save my soul. Yes, I pray the rosary every day, 15 decades, and I attend the true Mass, but I do not dedicate the rest of my life to Christ. I know I do more than most people so I have a better chance than most, but if only like ten people in my city of 8 million who die above the age of reason are saved, what chance do I have even though I am better than most?


    Don't forget (if you have time) for reparation (ie Sacred Heart) prayers given the Legislative Sin here in America.

    Most Catholics aren't doing what they really can or should be to save their souls. I admit that it's conjecture on my part; but unless people like Bowler give us warnings from time to time to really get after the spiritual life and be the best we can be... we'll get sidetracked and distracted towards religious gossip or empty spiritual "fast food."

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Wud U have Recognized Christ?
    « Reply #14 on: June 27, 2014, 09:57:39 PM »
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  • .




    Okay, after all these versions:

    This is a version I can Live with.  


    Quote from: bowler

    The interesting thing is, the Protestants called practically every good pope an Antichrist:  the popes that taught EENS, the popes that were doing their Catholic duty by trying to save the Protestants' souls..............

    .....But now that the pope is an (or the) Anti-Christ, for he teaches the Protestants that they are OK where they are, no Protestants consider him to be the Antichrist.




     :sign-surrender:  



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