Author Topic: In defense of Mary Co-Redemptrix (Read 4848 times)

Geremia · « **Reply #45 on:** September 17, 2016, 11:36:46 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

mindless Dimond robot

:tinfoil:

Emitte Lucem Tuam · « **Reply #46 on:** September 17, 2016, 11:43:47 PM »

Our holy Mother was granted ALL the graces from God, our Father, which means she is the dispenser of ALL graces granted to Her by and from God. Redemption is a grace, albeit a special, holy and magnificent grace, but a grace, nonetheless. Our Lady is a dispenser of ALL graces. Your salvation, and mine, depends on Our Holy Mother's dispension of Our Lord and Saviour's grace of salvation. Co-Redemptorix? No problem here at all.

Catholictrue · « **Reply #47 on:** September 18, 2016, 02:54:49 AM »

Quote from: Geremia

Quote from: An even Seven
Co means mutually and indicates an equality.
There's no equality between a copilot and a pilot.

Jesus didn't have a co-pilot in the act of Redemption. He did it alone. That's a dogma. So, your analogy is actually heretical. Do you know what 'alone' means? It's remarkable how many people are displaying on this thread that they reject a solemn definition and don't profess the Catholic faith.

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino” 1441, ex cathedra: “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and teaches that no one conceived of man and woman was ever freed of the domination of the Devil, except through the faith of the mediator between God and men, our Lord Jesus Christ[/b]; He who was conceived without sin, was born and died, ALONE BY HIS OWN DEATH LAID LOW THE ENEMY OF THE HUMAN RACE BY DESTROYING OUR SINS, and opened the entrance to the kingdom of heaven, which the first man by his own sin had lost…” (Denz. 711)

The key portion for this discussion says: “qui… solus sua morte” (i.e. who... alone by His own death) laid low the enemy of the human race, opened Heaven, destroyed man sins, etc. That is what the Catholic Church firmly believes, professes and teaches: that Jesus Christ alone redeemed man.

So, did Jesus lay low the enemy of the human race alone or with Mary? The answer is He did it alone. This passage from Florence really crushes any argument. You also contradict the Catechism of Trent, which taught the same thing.

Catechism of the Council of Trent, Part III: The Decalogue – First Commandment – Thou Shalt not Have Strange Gods, etc. – Objections Answered: “True, there is but one Mediator, Christ the Lord, who alone [/i]has reconciled us to the heavenly Father through His blood, and who, having obtained eternal redemption, and having entered once into the holies, ceases not to intercede for us.”

Those who have a problem with the fact that Jesus did it alone (and not with Mary or anyone else) don't have a problem with me but with Catholic teaching. And those who include Mary where the Church does not, and where she herself does not, are false devotees whom she and God reject. These points, of course, are in reference to the act of Redemption itself. They do not diminish Mary's unique role in the overall plan of salvation.

Nishant · « **Reply #48 on:** September 18, 2016, 04:46:48 AM »

1. For the precise title, Pope Pius XI calls the Blessed Virgin "Our Mother and Co-Redemptrix". When St. Padre Pio was deeply experiencing being crucified with Christ, a fraction of those mystical sufferings of Mary Co-Redemptrix, said

Quote

"Oh, if all people would but penetrate this martyrdom! Who could succeed in suffering with this, yes, our dear Coredemptrix? Who would refuse her the good title of Queen of Martyrs?"

I beg to differ with those who think demons who are openly professing Protestant Ecclesia Vacantists should be freely regarded as Catholics while they continue to pierce our Mother's Immaculate Heart, who suffered and suffers even more than holy Padre Pio did, weeping tears of blood as Her Heart is pierced by mankind's sins, as Mary of Agreda and other mystics teach; and as amply confirmed by Heaven itself in countless other apparitions since then. That Mary Immaculate is Mediatrix of all graces is a dogma already taught by the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium. Let the Dimonds profess they at least acknowledge the Blessed Mother as Mediatrix of all graces won by Christ's sufferings and then I shall not call them demons.

2. The Dimonds have but one prooftext, which they don't understand because they don't understand the difference between condign and congrous satisfaction that Pope St. Pius X teaches. Jesus alone made condign satisfaction for us, atonement in strict justice. Mary made congruous satisfaction for all the sins that Jesus made condign atonement for, because She offered a most fitting offering of Herself and Her suffering together with Him to God the Father; thus He is Mediator (obtaining it from God the Father in strict justice) of all the graces that Mary is Mediatrix (obtaining from Her Divine Son that these graces should be applied to us) of for us Her children. St. Alphonsus explains that Mary obtained that "this satisfaction (won by Christ) should be "applied to us". Mary's prerogative now exercised in heaven being a reward of Her Co-redemptive sufferings at the foot of the Cross is also expressly taught by St. Catherine, St. Bernard and countless other Saints, which Pope Leo XIII among other Popes cite and repeat. Mary is Mediatrix in heaven because by Her sufferings together with Christ, She was Co-Redemptrix at the Cross. Does Dimond the heretic believe She is Mediatrix of all graces, "Catholictrue"?

Fr. Garrigou Lagrange explains the terms Pope St. Pius X uses of which the heretic Dimond is culpably ignorant,

Quote

"When a meritorious work is in some way painful it has value as satisfaction as well. Thus theologians commonly teach, following upon what has been explained in the previous section, that Mary satisfied for all sins de congruo in everything in which Jesus satisfied de condigno. Mary offered God a satisfaction which it was becoming that He should accept: Jesus (alone) satisfied for us in strict justice."

3. With regard to the Dimonds, Matto, they do it invariably to everyone then their disciples cry when someone gives them a slight dose of their own medicine, like a typical schoolyard bully. I'm more than ready to take the hits and downrates that come my way for it for defending the Immaculate Mother's prerogatives and privileges against the demons; as to why they are professing Protestants - its very simple, as proven on the other thread "Catholictrue" would not dare to touch, the Dimonds are Ecclesia-Vacantists who word-for-word deny the dogma of Apostolicity; they manifestly don't believe in an Apostolic Church, therefore they don't believe in the Catholic Church; therefore they are not Catholics but canonically Protestants and can be freely regarded as heretics.

Now with regard to any actual Catholic who personally holds that Co-Redemptrix is not a dogma, but will acknowledge it if the Church defines it as one, of course he is free to do so until the Church defines it ex cathedra.

Arvinger · « **Reply #49 on:** September 18, 2016, 11:31:09 AM »

Quote from: GJC

Agree, that same "kind of" logic appears to be in full motion on these forum in regards to "material heresy". Without mentioning any names, I have read many posts that accuse certain CathInfo members as full blown heretics, i.e. those who support BoD in the "modern" sense, salvation outside the Church (not conversion) for the invincible ignorant......But the clergy that teaches them these things are only material heretics (possibly)?

Another words, how can we give a possible free pass to men like Francis, Fr. G-L et al., but not to the individuals that promote what they teach? I agree with St Alphonsus about parents; they will be punished more severely for their children's apostasy, heresy than the children. The same applies to the clergy promoting false doctrines in my books.

I highly doubt whether most of Traditionalist clergy who teach salvation for invincibly ignorant and without faith in Christ were ever confronted with truth about their errors. Sure, they probably know the Athanasian Creed or Cantate Domino, but they also probably think that these infallible definitions and their belief in salvation for invincibly ignorant can be reconciled and that the Church really teaches that souls can be saved withouth explicit faith in Christ and the Trinity. Having said that, it is of course possible that some of the clergy are indeed formal heretics and in full knowledge reject EENS (one of the sedevacantist priests said that is it "inconceivable" to him that all who died as non-Catholics were not of good faith and he "refuses to believe that hell is their eternal destiny").

Now, regarding Cathinfo members - we would have to talk about different cases, but you have people like saintbosco13, who obstinately promoted possibility of salvation without faith in Christ, even though he was confronted with the Athanasian Creed numerous times (I am yet to see a Cushingite explaining how salvation of invincibly ignorant can be reconciled with the Athanasian Creed), each time refusing to address it (finally he demanded that I stop quoting the Athanasian Creed because "it does not help the discussion"!). Obviouly, I can't judge his soul, but such behavior is quite clear indicator of bad will and heresy.

Conspiracy_Factist · « **Reply #50 on:** September 18, 2016, 02:39:03 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

I think this explains Our Blessed Mother's roll in our redemption well enough.

Quote from: The Glories of Mary
...'All,' says Simon of Cascia, 'who then saw this Mother silent, and not uttering a complaint in the midst of such great suffering, were filled with astonishment." But if Mary's lips were silent, her heart was not so, for she incessantly offered the life of her Son to the Divine Justice for our salvation. Therefore, we know that by the merits of her Dolours she cooperated in our birth to the life of grace; and hence we are the children of her sorrows. Christ,' says Lanspergius, 'was pleased that she, the co-operatress in our redemption, and whom He had determined to give us for our Mother, should be there present; for it was at the foot of the cross that she was to bring us, her children, forth. If any consolation entered that sea of bitterness, the heart of Mary, the only one was this, that she knew that by her sorrows she was leading us to eternal salvation, as Jesus Himself revealed
to Saint Bridget.......

the co-operatress in our redemption....sounds good