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Author Topic: The Conciliar Church  (Read 357 times)

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Offline Caminus

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The Conciliar Church
« on: Yesterday at 06:02:09 PM »
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    • What is the "Conciliar Church"?  Is it a completely separate entity from the historical Catholic Church or something else?  If it is a completely separate entity then it would be considered a non-Catholic sect strictly speaking and absolutely devoid of divine authority.  If this is your position, wherein can jurisdiction be found today?  Further, if it is a non-Catholic sect, how is it that some obviously Catholic people are "members" of it? 

    If it is something else, then what is it?    

    Or is it even helpful to think in terms of a monolithic false church?
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    Offline Freind

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    Re: The Conciliar Church
    « Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 06:05:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Caminus on Yesterday at 06:02:09 PM
    What is the "Conciliar Church"?  Is it a completely separate entity from the historical Catholic Church or something else?  If it is a completely separate entity then it would be considered a non-Catholic sect strictly speaking and absolutely devoid of divine authority.  If this is your position, wherein can jurisdiction be found today?  Further, if it is a non-Catholic sect, how is it that some obviously Catholic people are "members" of it?

    If it is something else, then what is it?   

    Or is it even helpful to think in terms of a monolithic false church?

    It's imaginary. It's like a plane being hijacked and the hijacker telling the people over the intercom that he is the pilot and everything is going to be alright.
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    Offline Caminus

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    Re: The Conciliar Church
    « Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 07:06:28 PM »
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    • Disagreement over the nature of the "conciliar church" is part of the reason why many left the SSPX to form a new kind of resistance to said entity.  So they separated over an imaginary non-entity?  The term also figured prominently in the writings of ABL as well as pretty much every traditionalist writer since the so-called Council.  It seems this is a key idea.  
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: The Conciliar Church
    « Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 07:13:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: Caminus on Yesterday at 07:06:28 PM
    So they separated over an imaginary non-entity?  It seems this is a key idea. 

    Good to see you, Caminus.  Please do not waste your time with Freind.  It is pointless, as made crystal clear by his absurd responses here and elsewhere/everywhere.

    Hope you are enjoying a reasonably merry Christmas season.  
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    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Freind

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    Re: The Conciliar Church
    « Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 07:23:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on Yesterday at 07:13:05 PM
    Good to see you, Caminus.  Please do not waste your time with Freind.  It is pointless, as made crystal clear by his absurd responses here and elsewhere/everywhere.

    Hope you are enjoying a reasonably merry Christmas season. 

    Yea, but what do you have to say specifically about my comment in this thread?
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    Offline Freind

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    Re: The Conciliar Church
    « Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 07:48:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on Yesterday at 07:13:05 PM
    Good to see you, Caminus.  Please do not waste your time with Freind.  It is pointless, as made crystal clear by his absurd responses here and elsewhere/everywhere.

    Hope you are enjoying a reasonably merry Christmas season. 

    I thought about this. Do you know how UNREAL what you just said sounds? You hardly ever responded to my posts, and now, here, you decide to pop up suddenly and give a blanket opinion of my past posts without any substance at all? It's sound like you are hired to oppose me.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: The Conciliar Church
    « Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 11:11:45 PM »
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    • Unlike the Conciliars, we don't believe that the Conciliar Church has any "ecclesial reality", and nobody is a "member" of it in any sense akin to how we say Catholics are members and of Christ, a theological sense, but in the sense that you might be a member if some, oh, political party or a book club, a natural sense.  It's nothing more than an organization in a natural sense.  There are some who belong to the Conciliar Church only materially, just because they mistakenly believe it to be the Catholic Church, but are still members of the Church due to their Baptism and profession of the True Faith.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: The Conciliar Church
    « Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 11:15:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Caminus on Yesterday at 07:06:28 PM
    Disagreement over the nature of the "conciliar church" is part of the reason why many left the SSPX to form a new kind of resistance to said entity.  So they separated over an imaginary non-entity?  The term also figured prominently in the writings of ABL as well as pretty much every traditionalist writer since the so-called Council.  It seems this is a key idea. 

    It's a natural organization, and the disagreement is about whether Traditional Catholics should tolerate what it stands for and whether they can co-exist.
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    Offline Caminus

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    Re: The Conciliar Church
    « Reply #8 on: Today at 12:38:20 AM »
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    • In this scenario who actually possesses ordinary jurisdiction within the Catholic Church?  Can you point to anyone specifically? Or are we in such a state that jurisdiction is only being supplied at the moment?  Is that sufficient to sustain indefectibility?
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